snood
 
  2  
Tue 19 Jun, 2007 09:13 pm
Hey cjhsa,
I think I saw some illegals and some small animals milling about. If you hurry you can get 'em all with one clip.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Wed 20 Jun, 2007 09:18 am
Interesting

Quote:
2008 Matchups [Byron York]

A new Gallup poll shows Republicans losing in every 2008 national matchup with Democrats. Here they are:

Clinton 50
Giuliani 46

Clinton 49
McCain 46

Clinton 53
Romney 40

Obama 50
Giuliani 45

Obama 48
McCain 46

Obama 57
Romney 36

Edwards 50
Giuliani 45

Edwards 50
McCain 44

Edwards 61
Romney 32


http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YjBjY2JkN2U5NWQ4OWQzMzY2MjJkY2QyYTQ5ZjI4Njg=


Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Fri 22 Jun, 2007 04:05 am
snood wrote:
I guess I've been paying attention to the wrong stuff. I've been listening to the candidates talk - reading where they stand on issues, and what they say about each other. I gotta get with the program...

No I haven't heard any of the others "sling" much, either. But we were talking about Obama

Ah, ok. So you were praising Obama for having "remained pretty much above" slinging that none of the other candidates actually did.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Fri 22 Jun, 2007 04:15 am
nimh wrote:
snood wrote:
I guess I've been paying attention to the wrong stuff. I've been listening to the candidates talk - reading where they stand on issues, and what they say about each other. I gotta get with the program...

No I haven't heard any of the others "sling" much, either. But we were talking about Obama

Ah, ok. So you were praising Obama for having "remained pretty much above" slinging that none of the other candidates actually did.


Ah, no. Obama said he's not gonna do the personal destruction politics thing. IMO, he's remained above doing the personal destruction politics thing. Him. Obama. Not as compared to Clinton or Edwards or Jesse Helms or Ross Perot. Not relative to what some overzealous campaign workers who are good at making "you tube" type videos. I'm saying that as far as I can see, Obama has not resorted to the personal destruction-type tactics himself.

The moment I hear or read Obama saying some smarmy insinuations about another candidate, or see or hear of him condoning or ignoring it when his workers do, then I'll agree with those saying "Oh, look - he said he'll not do that, but he's doing it."
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Fri 22 Jun, 2007 09:00 pm
As one of the people who donated $5 for that dinner with Obama thing, they are holding a conference call Saturday morning with all the people who weren't one of the five chosen for the dinner. We all got to submit a question for Obama to answer. Mine was:


What, if anything, sir, will you be doing to halt the continuing need for you to apologize for the actions of some of your campaign staff? We have more important business to attend to in this country and can't afford the distractions nor continue to provide ammunition to the opposition that say you are inexperienced. I am aware that it is also a strategy of the opposition to instill seeds of doubt amongst your supporters, especially when you are striving to raise the standard of conduct of others in politics. I must tell you it is working. We need to hear from you, sir, about what steps are being taken to prevent these things from continuing to occur. I keep saying you can't be held responsible for the actions of the millions of supporters uplifting you to the Presidency, but in fact, you are responsible for the hiring decisions of your campaign staff and setting the standards of their conduct. What renewed standards of conduct will you set for the duration of your campaign so we can all turn the page?


He is my candidate because I liked what he had to say about changing politics and he sounded as if it wasn't a bunch of empty promises and double talk. I'm not supporting him because of his stance on the war. His campaign needs to be about more than that. He can shut off the war the same day he enters office and be done with the issue. What will he do for the remaining 4 years in office? He's my candidate because of the hard work he talks about doing to rebuild some of the infrastructure that holds our society together and then move out to rebuild those networks of commonality with the people of the world.

Unfortunately, that shiny halo I placed upon his head is starting to tarnish and I need to decide if that's still a enough for me. I realize that's the nature of a campaign. So, I keep working to help him get elected and hope he polishes his halo soon.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 22 Jun, 2007 10:54 pm
Butterfly net, A good question for Obama to be sure, and your faltering on Obama is natural; I did it myself, because I hold Obama to a higher standard, and I hate to see leaks in the dam this early in his campaign.

But, I still see him as our best hope for the future of our country and the world. The issue about his electability in the big 69 thousand dollar question this early in the game. I'm on a "wait and see" mode until late next year. Too early to make decisions until all the mud and dirty laundry comes out just before election day. I thought Giuliani looked good about one month ago, but look at him now; he's falling from grace as more information comes out about the friction he has with the firemen of New York City, his own personal life, his control freak mentality, and his temperament. I wrote off McCain a long time ago when he voted for the torture bill; he can't be trusted.

I'll continue to follow Obama's campaign, because he's still the best candidate whether democrat or republican. I believe he'll mend some of the division Bush created in our country, and be consistent with diplomacy with our former friends and foes.; the only intelligent option in today's world.

We can continue to hope for a better future.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Sat 23 Jun, 2007 05:47 am
Butrfly and CI,
I appreciate your last posts. It was an outstanding question, and one I'd like to hear answered myself. I don't think I ever really have had a halo on him (I knew he was gonna f*ck up some, because I allowed him to be human), so mine hasn't tarnished. I got hooked by the compassion and the intelligence of the man. compassion as evidenced by the community work he chose over work in a lucrative law firm, intelligence that gives him the ability to put into words so many things that I needed to hear someone in public life say. (About the dumb war- about being the united states and not red or blue- about strategies to make the pie bigger and more accessible...)
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 23 Jun, 2007 09:19 am
snood, Yeah.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Sat 23 Jun, 2007 01:27 pm
Butrflynet wrote:
Unfortunately, that shiny halo I placed upon his head is starting to tarnish and I need to decide if that's still a enough for me. I realize that's the nature of a campaign. So, I keep working to help him get elected and hope he polishes his halo soon.

This halo-tarnishing is normal, and the reason why I cut the process short for myself and start out cynic in the first place. But however comfortably this works for me, it's people like you who actually make a difference. I greatly appreciate your work.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 23 Jun, 2007 11:10 pm
Hurrah, Obama is telling it like it "is."






Obama to UCC: Faith has been 'hijacked'
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Sun 24 Jun, 2007 01:38 am
According to today's Washington Post [frontpage and page A5), "Illinois coal proves to be burden for Obama".
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Mon 25 Jun, 2007 09:10 am
Following up on Walter's post... My beef with Obama - that he is so eager to unify and rise above that he seems less than capable of making clear or bold choices - appears to be on display in this story.

Quote:
Politics as usual

Let's review: In Act One, Barack Obama clasped hands with the coal industry and promised subsidies for liquefied coal fuel. In Act Two, environmentalists growled that Obama was backing one of the worst technologies ever devised from the standpoint of global warming, and, eventually, the senator backed away, which in turn made the coal industry very upset. So now we've reached the finale, in which Obama tries to pacify all sides with a clever compromise:

    [T]his month, his Senate office quietly sent out a clarification of his coal-to-liquid position, saying he would support subsidies only if the fuel could be created with 20 percent lower carbon dioxide emissions than petroleum-based fuels. The statement dismayed those pushing coal-to-liquid, who noted this would require technological leaps even beyond perfecting carbon storage.
The thing is, the coal industry's quite right to be dismayed. No one's even come close to figuring out how to develop a coal-to-liquid fuel with a lower emissions profile than plain old gasoline. Right now, even under the most optimistic assumptions--say, engineers figure out how to sequester carbon underground and actually keep it there--liquefied coal fuel will be no better than the status quo. That's the best case scenario. And that assumes some serious technological leaps.

But let's say Obama's fantasy scenario comes true, and someone develops a kinder, gentler, cleaner liquid-coal fuel. (Baard Energy has claimed that it might be possible.) Obama's position would still make environmentalists upset, and rightfully so. After all, those coal subsidies would still cost billions, and that means billions that can't be spent elsewhere, on far more effective strategies to reduce greenhouse emissions. Like efficiency measures. Or renewables. Heck, even just using coal to generate electricity for plug-in hybrids would be preferable to liquid-coal fuel. (The coal industry just wouldn't be able to get as many handouts.)

There's no satisfying compromise here, and Obama can't just rise above politics as usual--at least not on this issue. Either he supports the liquid-coal boondoggle or he doesn't. As the Washington Post points out, trying to reach out to both sides just ends up pleasing no one.

--Bradford Plumer
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 25 Jun, 2007 09:13 am
nimh, We must remember that Obama is still in a learning curve, but he's a quick study, and those kinds of problem will surely disappear as he learns these lessons.
0 Replies
 
noinipo
 
  1  
Mon 25 Jun, 2007 09:49 am
This Obama debate reminds me of a priceless British TV series. Politics behind the scenes are ruthlessly laid bare. A real eye opener.
.........................................
http://www.trashfiction.co.uk/very_british_coup.html
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Tue 26 Jun, 2007 04:14 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
nimh, We must remember that Obama is still in a learning curve, but he's a quick study, and those kinds of problem will surely disappear as he learns these lessons.

I'll remember that next time you complain that you're disappointed in him, had expected better of him, etc... :wink:
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Tue 26 Jun, 2007 04:22 am
noinipo wrote:
This Obama debate reminds me of a priceless British TV series. Politics behind the scenes are ruthlessly laid bare. A real eye opener.
.........................................
http://www.trashfiction.co.uk/very_british_coup.html

That was a great TV series! I remember it... even though, considering its from the early 80s, I cant have been older than 13 or 14 when I saw it.

But Obama as Perkins? Perkins the old-fashioned, combative, self-educated trade union-school Socialist? Who was slapped down ruthlessly by the capitalist establishment? Hmm.. I dont exactly see the parallel, neither in personality nor in what is happening..

No capitalist Big Business clamping down on Obama so far yet; most of the criticism he's faced so far seems to have come from within his own party, as befits the primary season. The Right so far hasnt thrown much in the way except some silliness about his name and his high school.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Tue 26 Jun, 2007 05:12 am
nimh wrote:
Following up on Walter's post... My beef with Obama - that he is so eager to unify and rise above that he seems less than capable of making clear or bold choices - appears to be on display in this story.

I think there are two levels of "rising above the partisan bickering" to consider. One level is to keep it down on personal attacks. I'm all for that, and Obama has done this, and so have his competitors, as far as I can make out.

The other level is taking a stand on contentious issues such as how high taxes should be, how generous government services should be, how important it is to keep the budget balanced, what the right standard of evidence is for going to war, and many others. On this level, I'm all for partisanship. There are conflicts of interest, opinion, and even about the nature of reality. In my view, the responsiblity of politicians is to bring these conflicts into the open and argue them out. I feel uncomfortable with candidates who instead aspire to rise above those conflicts. We would probably all flinch if we heard that in a trial, the prosecutor, the defense lawyer, and the judge decided to rise above the partisan bickering, sat together in harmony over a good dinner, and decided without the jury that the accused was half-guilty of the murder. I flinch just as much when politicians do this.

That said, Obama isn't the candidate who caused me the most flinching in this campaign. That honor goes to Hillary Clinton, her triangulating, her lack of a principled stand on anything, and her avoidance of specifics on her "issues" pages.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 26 Jun, 2007 07:05 am
nimh wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
nimh, We must remember that Obama is still in a learning curve, but he's a quick study, and those kinds of problem will surely disappear as he learns these lessons.

I'll remember that next time you complain that you're disappointed in him, had expected better of him, etc... :wink:


Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Wed 27 Jun, 2007 03:48 pm
while we are talking about dem candidates...does Mahatma Gahndi still run a gas station in St. Louis?
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Wed 27 Jun, 2007 04:02 pm
wtf?
0 Replies
 
 

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