Obama '08?

@roger,

roger wrote:

That's interesting, and a point I hadn't considered.

It's a little-understood point - esp. by politicians. The gross debt burden on the economy as a whole has to include all participants, foreign and domestic:

http://media.economist.com/images/images-magazine/2011/07/09/fn/20110709_fnc143.gif

Since "Obama '08?" is long gone, the status of the US economy is as relevant to his chances of re-election as the opinion polls. His original chairman of the counsil of economic advisers, Christina Romer, summarized it accurately on TV yesterday when she said, verbatim: "We're pretty darn fucked!"

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@High Seas,

But people who lend to governments know all that HS. And much more. Much, much more. Yields represent their opinion after considering all of it. And they might not know everything.

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Yet another commentator points out that the DEMS are ideologically bankrupt, the Repub agenda is the only game in town

Where are the Democrats' ideas?

By Julian E. Zelizer

Quote:

In previous eras, Democrats were willing to put forward arguments to defend taxes. Roosevelt argued during World War II that Americans had to sacrifice for the general good of the nation. In 1967 and 1968, Lyndon B. Johnson claimed that a wealthy nation could afford to contribute more to the common good for the pursuit of domestic policy and foreign policy.
Unless Democrats start to put forward some ideas of their own, they will suffer at the ballot box. In the end, most Americans want something to vote for, and candidates they can believe in.
Candidate Obama realized this in 2008 and used it to defeat Sen. Hillary Clinton in the primaries. As president, Obama has acted very differently and risks intensifying the ideological vacuum that has caused so many problems for his party

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/08/08/zelizer.democrats.ideas/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Where are the Democrats' ideas?

Check with George Soros.

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@okie,

George is out of the game. He took his fund from public to a family fund. Seems he didn't like the new reporting requirements.

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@okie,

okie wrote:

hawkeye10 wrote:
Where are the Democrats' ideas?
Check with George Soros.

Yep.

George Soros and his ilk are promoting a new American Dream...

They are working overtime to increase the number of section 8 moocher class in this country.

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Black Americans are getting the short end of the Obama stick... just
because they think Obama is their brotha they think it's a good thing.

BOHICA!

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Only 44 percent of Americans would re-elect President Obama today.

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@H2O MAN,

H2O MAN wrote:

They are working overtime to increase the number of section 8 moocher class in this country.

Have you heard of the new Obama Happy Meal at McDonalds? Go order anything you want and the guy in line behind you has to pay for it.
Just kidding libs, so please do not try it. Pay for your own salad!

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H20 says:

Quote:

Only 44 percent of Americans would re-elect President Obama today.

Of course that's a generic question. In trial matchups with actual candidates, Obama still today whomps all of them handily, so until the Republicans can figure out a way to run a generic candidate rather than an actual person, H20's frustration level is just going to increase exponentially for the next six years.

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From Gallup:

Quote:

Republicans appear to be suffering the most from the last-minute debt deal last week that was reached only after anguished negotiations between Obama and congressional leaders.

The survey found 49 percent of Americans held a negative view of Republicans after the deal was reached, and 42 percent held a negative opinion of the conservative Tea Party movement. Tea Party conservatives stuck closely to their demand that deficit reduction be handled solely through spending cuts and were willing to risk a default to achieve their aims.

"Coming out of this, the Republicans are I think taking the balance of the blame for the debt deal negotiations," Clark said.

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@MontereyJack,

You choose to ignore Obama's downward slide... I'm not surprised.

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Haven't seen any slide yet. He goes down a couple points, he goes up a couple points, been doing that for two years now. The Tea Party, on the other hand, just does keep going down.

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@MontereyJack,

What do you believe will weigh more on voter's minds a year from now - memories of credit limit/budget cut negotiations or the experience of the continuing stagnation of our high tax; regulation bound; no petroleum development; anti business economy?

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

High tax?!?!! What the hell are you smoking, George? Taxes are currently the lowest they've been in 98% of voters' lifetimes.

The majority of Americans think taxes should go UP - at least on the wealthy. Polling is quite clear on this, across practically survey asking the question this year. That's not a signal that your position is widely accepted. Even 40-50% of REPUBLICANS feel taxes should go up in most polls...

The GOP has seen their popularity plummet during this debt ceiling fight. Truly plummet. You can whistle past the graveyard all you like, but you have a party which is consistently taking unpopular positions, acting in unpopular ways, and your presidential candidates all have major weaknesses. That's not a recipe for success next year.

You really don't seem to understand that your views aren't the predominant ones; most people don't give a **** about the issues you list.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

The majority of Americans think taxes should go UP - at least on the wealthy. Polling is quite clear on this, across practically survey asking the question this year.

Natch. Most Americans are not wealthy. Thinking through the pocket is nothing new in surveys. Voting for your own pay rise is easier than working for it.

1 Reply

@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Quote:
The majority of Americans think taxes should go UP - at least on the wealthy. Polling is quite clear on this, across practically survey asking the question this year.

Natch. Most Americans are not wealthy. Thinking through the pocket is nothing new in surveys. Voting for your own pay rise is easier than working for it.

Fair enough, but the numbers of people who want to see taxes go up on the wealthy has risen considerably over the last two years.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

Cyclops, how many people think they are wealthy and how many of those want to pay more taxes?

P.S. People can voluntarily pay more taxes, can't they. Why don't you and all the Democrats be an example?

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

Cyclops, how many people think they are wealthy and how many of those want to pay more taxes?

I have no idea. It's not material to what we are discussing, though. The fact is that the prevailing GOP opinion on the matter is strongly in the minority.

Quote:

P.S. People can voluntarily pay more taxes, can' they. Why don't you and all the Democrats be an example?

I already do, in two separate ways. I can't speak for the rest of Democrats.

But, that's not really how taxation works; everyone has to contribute, because everyone enjoys the benefits of our gov't. And the richer you are, the more you enjoy them; so it behooves them to pay higher rates than those who aren't rich.

Cycloptichron

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

okie wrote:

Cyclops, how many people think they are wealthy and how many of those want to pay more taxes?

I have no idea. It's not material to what we are discussing, though. The fact is that the prevailing GOP opinion on the matter is strongly in the minority.

Quote:
P.S. People can voluntarily pay more taxes, can' they. Why don't you and all the Democrats be an example?

I already do, in two separate ways. I can't speak for the rest of Democrats.

But, that's not really how taxation works; everyone has to contribute, because everyone enjoys the benefits of our gov't. And the richer you are, the more you enjoy them; so it behooves them to pay higher rates than those who aren't rich.

Cycloptichron

Total baloney, cyclops. I could go into several angles as to why it is, but first of all I doubt you pay higher taxes already, and secondly it is not at all a given that wealthier people get more benefits from government. In fact, I would argue that it is just the opposite.

1 Reply

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