okie
 
  0  
Fri 4 Mar, 2011 02:14 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
You apparently missed the point of my post. The point is that societies and cultures do not legalize all behaviors. I do not believe they ever have or ever will. I need to also point out that you guys comparison of same sex marriage to race is just nonsense. I also think many blacks and other minorities are highly offended by that comparison.

It also needs to be pointed out that behavior is totally different from the proclivity for that behavior. For example, there are laws against many behaviors but no laws against the proclivities for those same behaviors. I think you have the differences very confused in your mind. If proclivity ever becomes a right or license to behave in any certain way, then we have lost our way as a culture and as a society.

That is what the same sex marriage lobby is attempting to do, because they want society to approve of their chosen lifestyle. They conveniently ignore the fact that the law is probably not going to bother them as long as they do not demand a marriage license to marry somebody of the same sex. Polygamists are also likely not bothered any as long as they do not demand society give them licenses to marry as many people as they want. Their proclivity does not give them a right or license. Marriage has been defined for a long time as a contract between one man and one woman. It has been defined that way for numerous reasons proven practical now for a very long time, not only here but in many cultures throughout history.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 4 Mar, 2011 02:20 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Child abusers do not have the same privileges as everyone else; most often, they have restrictions on places they can be such as schools and playgrounds.
In some jurisdictions, neighbors are warned about sex offenders.
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Fri 4 Mar, 2011 02:22 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Child abusers do not have the same privileges as everyone else; most often, they have restrictions on places they can be such as schools and playgrounds.
In some jurisdictions, neighbors are warned about sex offenders.


You're thinking of child molesters. Child abusers have practically no such restrictions placed upon them. So, my point stands.

Cycloptchorn
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Fri 4 Mar, 2011 02:26 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
"Child abusers" is not restricted to your interpretation.

Quote:
What Is Child Abuse?

"Child abuse" can be defined as causing or permitting any harmful or offensive contact on a child's body; and, any communication or transaction of any kind which humiliates, shames, or frightens the child. Some child development experts go a bit further, and define child abuse as any act or omission, which fails to nurture or in the upbringing of the children.

The Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act defines child abuse and neglect as: “at a minimum, any recent act or failure to act on the part of a parent or caretaker, which results in death, serious physical or emotional harm, sexual abuse or exploitation, or an act or failure to act which presents an imminent risk of serious harm.”

A child of any age, sex, race, religion, and socioeconomic background can fall victim to child abuse and neglect.

There are many factors that may contribute to the occurrence of child abuse and neglect. Parents may be more likely to maltreat their children if they abuse drugs or alcohol. Some parents may not be able to cope with the stress resulting from the changes and may experience difficulty in caring for their children.

Major types of child abuse are : Physical Abuse, Emotional Abuse, & Sexual child Abuse, Neglect.( Physical neglect, educational neglect, emotional neglect)
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Fri 4 Mar, 2011 02:30 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

You apparently missed the point of my post. The point is that societies and cultures do not legalize all behaviors. I do not believe they ever have or ever will. I need to also point out that you guys comparison of same sex marriage to race is just nonsense. I also think many blacks and other minorities are highly offended by that comparison.


1, it's not nonsense at all. And more importantly,

2, how the hell would you know?!!? lol. My guess is that you know hardly any minorities or blacks and hardly any gay folks.

Quote:
It also needs to be pointed out that behavior is totally different from the proclivity for that behavior. For example, there are laws against many behaviors but no laws against the proclivities for those same behaviors. I think you have the differences very confused in your mind. If proclivity ever becomes a right or license to behave in any certain way, then we have lost our way as a culture and as a society.


The standard for legalization or not is, 'what harm is done?' What harm is done by allowing gays to marry? None at all. You have to resort to empty threats and bullshit arguments.

Quote:
That is what the same sex marriage lobby is attempting to do, because they want society to approve of their chosen lifestyle. They conveniently ignore the fact that the law is probably not going to bother them as long as they do not demand a marriage license to marry somebody of the same sex. Polygamists are also likely not bothered any as long as they do not demand society give them licenses to marry as many people as they want. Their proclivity does not give them a right or license. Marriage has been defined for a long time as a contract between one man and one woman. It has been defined that way for numerous reasons proven practical now for a very long time, not only here but in many cultures throughout history.


So what? Slavery and a host of other things 'used' to be accepted in this country and others. But we've moved on since then.

It's boring arguing this issue with old people like yourself, you know that? You don't have any clue what my generation and the younger ones think about this at all. We grew up with openly gay folks all around us and the truth is that we really don't give a ****, because they are no different than anyone else, and letting them get married harms nobody. I know this, because I know lots of married gay folks here in CA, and somehow, myself and my marriage are just fine.

It's not too much of a concern for me though, because the truth is that your position is dying off. Soon you'll be gone and there won't be anyone left to keep equality from moving forward. So why should I get upset about it? Time is on my side.

Cycloptichorn
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Fri 4 Mar, 2011 02:34 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I enjoy the way okie uses terms like "The point is that societies and cultures do not legalize all behaviors" as if that is an excuse to override the US Constitution.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Fri 4 Mar, 2011 02:36 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
The standard for legalization or not is, 'what harm is done?'
That is very likely why gay marriage has not been legalized most places, cyclops.
Quote:
What harm is done by allowing gays to marry? None at all.
That is obviously only your opinion, but has not been the opinion of most people throughout history.
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Fri 4 Mar, 2011 02:38 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
The standard for legalization or not is, 'what harm is done?'
That is very likely why gay marriage has not been legalized most places, cyclops.
Quote:
What harm is done by allowing gays to marry? None at all.
That is obviously only your opinion, but has not been the opinion of most people throughout history.


Well, yeah. But most people throughout history thought that people from different races were inferior or dumber in many ways. Today we know that's not true. So why say that as if their opinions have any validity?

Pointing to 'opinions throughout history' is never a good way to support your argument, Okie. It's an Appeal to Ignorance.

Like I said - you'll be dead soon enough and then these arguments will be through. But I suspect that our side will attain victory early enough to make you watch it, which I dearly, dearly hope happens.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 4 Mar, 2011 02:38 pm
@okie,
okie, It's not only Cyclo's opinion. Can you show evidence that it does? Please list them for us? I mean credible sources by research.

Opinions throughout history is not a good indication of right and wrong.
okie
 
  1  
Fri 4 Mar, 2011 02:52 pm
@cicerone imposter,
This debate is going on in lots of places. Here is an interesting quote from an article about the Navajo tribe. As a bit of humor, what about the name of the guy that said the quote from the link????

http://www.gaypasg.org/gaypasg/PressClippings/2005/Jun/Navajos%20Override%20Gay%20-%20Marriage%20Ban%20Veto.htm

''In the traditional Navajo ways, gay marriage is a big no-no,'' said Kenneth Maryboy, a delegate from Montezuma Creek, Utah. ''It all boils down to the circle of life. We were put on the earth to produce offspring.''

0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Fri 4 Mar, 2011 03:21 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Who made $50k thirty years ago? Your starting from a falsehood, then extend that into more imaginary returns on investment.

FACT: Over 43% of Americans have less than $10,000 in savings.

Try to figure out why?

I made $50k thirty years ago!
A great many of my personal acquaintances made more than I did!

More than 43% of Americans have less than $10,000 in savings because they spent much of what they earned to pay the expenses of living:
housing;
utilities;
insurance;
food;
vehicles;
vehicle transportation;
recreation;
vactions;
luxuries.

Do not overlook the fct that 57% of Americans have equal to or more than $10,000 in savings because they spent less of what they earned to pay the expenses of living.
ican711nm
 
  0  
Fri 4 Mar, 2011 03:55 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
FICA is 15.3 but Medicare makes up 2.9 of that. SS is only 12.4% of current income. (Currently less with the 1 year reduction.)
So you use a figure that is too high today.
But you can't even use 12.4% for your 44 years of work.
...

You completely missed the point I made.

Again, my point was that most of us would now be far better off financially if we had been compelled by the federal government to have invested in 3% US Savings Bonds instead of in FICA.

My annual Social Security income equals $19,608. Had I been permitted to invest my net FICA deductions in 3% US Savings Bonds instead of in FICA, my retirement income would be much greater.

The same would be true for anyone receiving an annual gross income of more than $20,000 regardless of their net FICA deductions.

What makes FICA deductions even worse is the fact that starting with President Carter they were no longer invested and protected in a Government Trust Fund, and were instead paid into the general fund where they were spent in exchange for alleged IOUs for whatever government politicians invent.
ican711nm
 
  0  
Fri 4 Mar, 2011 04:04 pm
It amazes me that those who support Obama's incremental theft of what people earn do not seem to realize what the ultimate consequences will be for their children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren. They appear to think they will end up with more, when in fact they will end up with far less than their parents.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 4 Mar, 2011 04:10 pm
@ican711nm,
You're so far off reality, your post has no fact or evidence to prove it.

It just shows how your view of the real world is non-existent. You show over and over that you post garbage that is created in your brain without any common sense or fact to support it - just like your example of how much anyone could have saved by investing $5,000/year over 30-years into a savings account with some ridiculous result in how much that person would end up with.

Quit making a fool of yourself, but I repeat myself!
ican711nm
 
  -2  
Fri 4 Mar, 2011 04:16 pm
Quote:

http://www.impeachobamacampaign.com/more-evidence-ties-obama-to-socialist-party/
Yet more evidence has emerged tying President Obama to the New Party, a Marxist-led socialist party that sought to infiltrate the Democratic Party and push it so far leftward it ultimately would become a socialist organization.

John Nichols, Washington correspondent for The Nation magazine, recalled speaking with Obama at New Party events in the 1990s.

“When we spoke together at New Party events in those days, he was blunt about his desire to move the Democratic Party off the cautious center where Bill Clinton had wedged it,” wrote Nichols in a January 2009 piece published at Progressive.org.

WND previously reported on newspaper evidence showing Obama was listed as a member of the New Party.

The New Party worked alongside the controversial Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN.

In his piece, Nichols referenced quotes from Obama at a 2008 town hall meeting in suburban Atlanta where the politician labeled himself a “progressive.”

Wrote Nichols: “Barack Obama knows exactly what it means to say he is a ‘progressive.’ When he does so, he is not merely avoiding the word ‘liberal,’ as the sillier of his rightwing critics like to claim. Obama actually understands the subtle nuances of the American left.

“This is a man who moved to Chicago to be part of the political moment that began with the 1983 election of leftie Congressman Harold Washington as the city’s first African American mayor, who studied the organizing techniques of Saul ‘Rules for Radicals’ Alinsky, who worked with proudly radical labor leaders to defend basic industries and avert layoffs, who used his Harvard-minted legal skills to fight for expanded voting rights, who was mentored by civil libertarian legislator and federal judge Abner Mikva, who discussed the intricacies of Middle East policy with Edward Said and Rashid Khalidi, and who learned about single-payer health care from his old friend and neighbor Dr. Quentin Young, the longtime coordinator of Physicians for a National Health Program.

“And, famously, Obama did not just make anti-war sounds before Iraq was invaded, he appeared at an anti-war rally in downtown Chicago with a ‘War Is Not an Option’ sign waving at his side.”

Nichols authored a 2004 book with avowed Marxist Robert W. McChesney, founder of Free Press, a George Soros-funded organization with close ties to the White House that petitions for more government control of the news media.
mysteryman
 
  0  
Fri 4 Mar, 2011 04:22 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
2, complaints of bigotry against conservatives, such as we've seen rise a great deal in the last few years, are quite entertaining but hardly serious


I find this comment by you to be rather telling about you.
You say that the complaints are "hardly serious".

It seems to me that ANY bigotry, no matter who it is aimed at, is a serious matter.
Even if the group doing the complaining is a group you dont like.

Judging by your statement, you SEEM to be saying that its ok to be bigoted if its towards someone you disagree with or dislike.

Quote:

LOL. Unless you have a couple of degrees in history, you aren't trained in the study of it - like some of us are

So someone must have a degree in something to be a student of it, or to be able to properly study it?

Does the name Jane Goodall ring a bell with you?
She had no formal training or a college education, yet she became the worlds foremost expert on Chimpanzee's.
How could she have done that with no degree?
spendius
 
  1  
Fri 4 Mar, 2011 04:25 pm
@ican711nm,
It used to be called "permeation" in ye olde Fabian days.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Fri 4 Mar, 2011 04:27 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Cice, you repeatedly show that your view of the real world is non-existent. You show over and over that you post garbage that is created in your brain without any common sense or fact to support it.

Your evidence free tirades are continual evidence that you are either a fool or a fool and a liar.

However, keep up your evidence free tirades. They are getting more entertaining with each occurrence.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 4 Mar, 2011 04:34 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
2, complaints of bigotry against conservatives, such as we've seen rise a great deal in the last few years, are quite entertaining but hardly serious


I find this comment by you to be rather telling about you.
You say that the complaints are "hardly serious".

It seems to me that ANY bigotry, no matter who it is aimed at, is a serious matter.
Even if the group doing the complaining is a group you dont like.

Judging by your statement, you SEEM to be saying that its ok to be bigoted if its towards someone you disagree with or dislike.


It's not that it's 'ok' - it's that:

1, it hardly exists if at all - certainly not to the level that some whine about it, and

2, it certainly doesn't seem to keep any of them from earning a fine living and achieving the highest levels of power in the land. At all.

When we talk about the negative effects of discrimination, and the need to take action based on them, you ought to be able to point to those effects and the way that they have harmed that group. Women, minorities, gay folks; you can easily show how discrimination has harmed their ability to succeed in a variety of ways. Conservatives? Not so much.

So, I don't take their whining seriously. At all.

Quote:
Quote:
LOL. Unless you have a couple of degrees in history, you aren't trained in the study of it - like some of us are

So someone must have a degree in something to be a student of it, or to be able to properly study it?

Does the name Jane Goodall ring a bell with you?
She had no formal training or a college education, yet she became the worlds foremost expert on Chimpanzee's.
How could she have done that with no degree?
[/quote]

She was self-taught, and yes - her field experience more than made up for any formal learning program.

However, it has been my long personal experience that lots of folks think they know a lot about history, because they happen to have read a book or two about it. This isn't usually born out when you question them in depth on issues that lie beneath the surface, or when you ask them for greater anlaysis than existed in the book or article they happened to read.

For example; Okie thinks he knows a lot about the Nazi party and Germany because he read a few Time/Life books on the subject. Do you honestly think that compares to someone who was trained to look at primary sources and utilizes a variety of different methods and metrics to determine a more objective view of the situation?

It does not. Let us take another example that you may agree with - driving a big-rig. I know how to drive in general, I've been doing it my whole life. But if I jumped in your rig, I'd probably flip the thing or kill someone within just a few miles. Because a little bit of knowledge ain't the same thing as being trained to engage in an activity.

People like Goodall are the exemption, not the rule. The majority of those in our world who have made impacts in literature, history, art, engineering, math and science, were trained to do so in a formal program of education.

Cycloptichorn
parados
 
  1  
Fri 4 Mar, 2011 04:34 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:

Again, my point was that most of us would now be far better off financially if we had been compelled by the federal government to have invested in 3% US Savings Bonds instead of in FICA.

As I showed, your point is Bull ****.. with capital letters.


Quote:
My annual Social Security income equals $19,608.
Which means you didn't have earnings large enough to max out SS. Which means your savings would have been less than the 299,000 if you had invested all the SS taxes over the years.

Quote:
Had I been permitted to invest my net FICA deductions in 3% US Savings Bonds instead of in FICA, my retirement income would be much greater.
Only as long as you only survive 12 years into retirement. After that, you would have expended all your savings from investing the SS dollars. And that is if your deductions from savings are the SAME as your SS check. Not more as you claim.

Quote:
The same would be true for anyone receiving an annual gross income of more than $20,000 regardless of their net FICA deductions.
No. You just live in a fantasy world that ignores the reality of what was deducted and what it would actually be worth and how long it would last at the dollar amount you receive from SS.
 

Related Topics

So....Will Biden Be VP? - Question by blueveinedthrobber
My view on Obama - Discussion by McGentrix
Obama/ Love Him or Hate Him, We've Got Him - Discussion by Phoenix32890
Obama fumbles at Faith Forum - Discussion by slkshock7
Expert: Obama is not the antichrist - Discussion by joefromchicago
Obama's State of the Union - Discussion by maxdancona
Obama 2012? - Discussion by snood
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Obama '08?
  3. » Page 1962
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.17 seconds on 06/28/2024 at 08:48:19