ican711nm
 
  0  
Sun 9 Jan, 2011 02:55 pm
@ican711nm,
CORRECTIONS

TABLE 1 {a}
COMMUNIST HOMICIDE
REGIME.......................YEARS......HOMICIDES.......AVG PER YEAR
...
USSR.....................................1917-87..........61,911,000.......884,442
Vietnam (Hanoi)........................1945-87............1,670,000........39,761
...
parados
 
  0  
Sun 9 Jan, 2011 02:57 pm
@ican711nm,
Please provide a source for that ican.

If you want to count ALL deaths then you need to do the same for every country you use in a comparison.
ican711nm
 
  0  
Sun 9 Jan, 2011 03:02 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
You just can't make a claim about "my" ignorance - without showing proof from credible sources that my opinions are wrong or unfounded.


You repeatedly make claims about other people's ignorance "without showing proof from credible sources that my opinions are wrong or unfounded."

Your ignorance has been shown by me and many others here to be self-evident. Too many of your assertions are obviously false. For example:

Cicerone, what you do not understand is what it is that YOU do not understand about the huge magnitude of your own ignorance.

What you appear to not undertand is that tens of thousands is one thousandth of tens of millions.

What you appear to not understand is that your claim the US killed "tens of thousands of innocent people around the world 1917 to 1987" fails to be supported by evidence that these people were innocents.

What you appear to not understand is that your apparent implication that the US killed huge numbers of innocent people 1950 to 2010 is also unsupported by evidence.

What you appear to not understand is that while the US appears to have killed a number of innocent people, that number is no where near how many innocent people were killed by other nations since 1917.

What you appear to not understand is that the failure of the US to be perfect, does not condemn the US, and does not discount the tens of millions of innocent lives the US has saved in wars, natural disasters, and in desease epidemics over that same period.

What you appear to not understand is that statist -- socialist, communist, nazi, fascist, monarchist -- governments have repeatedly failed to provide more humane and more trustworthy governments than has the US Constitutional government.

What you appear to not understand is the drift of our federal government toward statism and away from full compliance with our amended Constitution since 1917 (more accurately since 1910) has caused the US to become much less humane and much less trustworthy.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Sun 9 Jan, 2011 03:05 pm
@ican711nm,
Yes, I do most of the time provide reasons why they are ignorant; and they are self-explanatory for those who understand English.

Show me which assertions that I have made are false?

At the same time, show me where I have called anyone ignorant where I didn't explain the reasons why?
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Sun 9 Jan, 2011 03:11 pm
@parados,
Parados!
Nazis murdered over ten million German civilions, 1931 - 1945.an average of over 714,285 per year. (This has been published by many sources over the last 60 years. Are you really ignorant of that evidence?)

Communists murdered over one-hundred-six million civilians 1926-1987, an average of over 1,742,081 per year.
Quote:

http://www.mega.nu:8080/ampp/rummel/com.tab1.gif
TABLE 1 {a}
COMMUNIST HOMICIDE
REGIME.......................YEARS......HOMICIDES.......AVG PER YEAR
Afghanistan.......................1978-87............228,000..............25,333
Albania..............................1944-87...........100,000................4,347
Angola...............................1975-87............125,000...............10,416
Bulgaria..............................1944-87...........222,000................5,162
Cambodia (Khmer Rouge)...1975-79........2,035,000............508,875
Cambodia (Samrin)..............1979-87...........230,000..............28,750
China....................................1949-87......35,236,000............927,263
Cuba.....................................1959-87...............73,000..............2,607
Czechosolovakia...................1948-68...............65,000.............3,250
Ethiopia................................1974-87..............725,000..........55,769
Germany (East).....................1948-87...............70,000.............1,794
Grenada (Coup).....................1983-83....................106.................106
Hungary................................1948-87...............27,000................692
Korea, North.........................1948-87...........1,663,000..........42,641
Laos (PDR)............................1975-87...............56,000.............4,307
Mongolia...............................1926-87..............100,000............1,639
Mozambique.........................1975-87.............198,000............16,500
Nicaragua (Sandinistas)........1979-87..............5,000...................625
Poland...................................1948-87...............22,000...............564
Rumania................................1948-87.............435,000..........11,153
USSR.....................................1917-87..........61,911,000......884,422
Vietnam (Hanoi).....................1945-87...........1,670,000.......39,761
Yemen, South)........................1967-87..................1,000.................50
Yugoslavia...........................1944-87..........1,072,000........24,930
TOTAL ....................................1926-87......106,267,000....1,742,081

parados
 
  0  
Sun 9 Jan, 2011 03:25 pm
@ican711nm,
And?

Other than being a red herring, it doesn't have any basis in how this started.
ican711nm
 
  0  
Sun 9 Jan, 2011 03:45 pm
@parados,
What you appear to not understand is that CLAIMS the US killed "tens of thousands of innocent people around the world 1917 to 1987" fails to be supported by evidence that these people were innocents.

What you appear to not understand is that CLAIMS that the US killed huge numbers of innocent people 1950 to 2010 is also unsupported by evidence.

What you appear to not understand is that while the US appears to have killed a number of innocent people, that number is no where near how many innocent people were killed by other nations since 1917.

What you appear to not understand is that the failure of the US to be perfect, does not condemn the US, and does not discount the tens of millions of innocent lives the US has saved in wars, FROM natural disasters, and FROM desease epidemics over that same period.

What you appear to not understand is that statist -- socialist, communist, nazi, fascist, monarchist -- governments have repeatedly failed to provide more humane and more trustworthy governments than has the US Constitutional government.

What you appear to not understand is the drift of our federal government toward statism and away from full compliance with our amended Constitution since 1910 has caused the US to become much less humane and much less trustworthy, BUT STILL MORE HUMANE AND TRUSTWORTHY THAN MOST OF TODAY'S NATIONS.
plainoldme
 
  0  
Sun 9 Jan, 2011 06:25 pm
@ican711nm,
Who remains unconvinced that ican and okie are the same person?
okie
 
  0  
Sun 9 Jan, 2011 07:23 pm
@plainoldme,
plainoldme wrote:
Who remains unconvinced that ican and okie are the same person?
Me for one, and I am sure ican is another.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sun 9 Jan, 2011 07:25 pm
ObamaCare's Reality Deficit

If you believe that a new entitlement saves money, you'll believe anything..

Of all the claims deployed in favor of ObamaCare, and there are many, the most preposterous is that a new open-ended entitlement will somehow reduce the budget deficit. Insure 32 million more people, and save money too! The even more remarkable spectacle is that Washington seems to be taking this claim seriously in advance of the House's repeal vote next week. Some things in politics you just can't make up.

Terminating trillions of dollars in future spending will "heap mountains of debt onto our children and grandchildren" and "do very serious violence to the national debt and deficit," Nancy Pelosi said at her farewell press conference as Speaker. Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius chimed in that "we can't afford repeal," as if ObamaCare's full 10-year cost of $2.6 trillion once all the spending kicks in is a taxpayer bargain.

The basis for such claims, to the extent a serious one exists, is the Congressional Budget Office's analysis this week of the repeal bill, which projects it will "cost" the government $230 billion through 2021. Because CBO figures ObamaCare will reduce the deficit by the same amount, repealing it will supposedly do the opposite. The White House promptly released a statement saying repeal would "explode the deficit."

Meanwhile, other Democrats have taken up arms about House procedure. The GOP adopted a budget rule that says repeal doesn't have to be "paid for," and the press corps is treating this exemption as a scandal against Washington decency.

In a memo, the inimitable Pete Stark spied a GOP plot "to shove through a massive bill"—the repeal measure is all of two pages—while Henry Waxman and other outgoing committee chairmen shook with outrage about "an offense to good government."

Republicans ran on "transparency in government and more fiscal responsibility," they wrote recently, and now here they are bringing "major legislation to the floor without any public hearings and without paying the trillion dollar cost of repeal. . . . The contrast between the approach the Republican leadership is proposing and the open process the Democrats followed last Congress is stark."

It sure is. Ten months ago, Democrats used a partisan majority to narrowly defeat bipartisan opposition and pass a national health-care program that a majority of the public opposed and continues to oppose today. Gallup reported yesterday that Americans favor repeal, 46% to 40%. Among the worst Democratic abuses was gaming the CBO's budget conventions to make it seem as if ObamaCare "saves" money.

The accounting gimmicks are legion, but we'll pick out a few: It uses 10 years of taxes to fund six years of subsidies. Social Security and Medicare revenues are double-counted to the tune of $398 billion. A new program funding long-term care frontloads taxes but backloads spending, gradually going broke by design. The law pretends that Congress will spend less on Medicare than it really will, in particular through an automatic 25% cut to physician payments that Democrats have already voted not to allow for this year.

The CBO budget gnomes are required to "score" what's on paper in front of them, no matter how unrealistic, and that's the method its Congressional masters prefer. The political class makes believe that CBO's forecasts are carved into stone tablets through divine revelation, but all they really show is that politicians have rigged the budget rules to hide the true cost of entitlements.

Anyone in search of economic or fiscal reality will have to turn to other sources. Two particular ObamaCare heroes are Richard Foster, the chief Medicare actuary with the courage to publish more honest analyses, and Paul Ryan, the Wisconsin Republican who is the most fluent scourge of ObamaCare's book-cooking, including in a debate last year in which President Obama had no response to his critique.

We also single out the economists Doug Holtz-Eakin, a former CBO director, and Eugene Steuerle, of the Urban Institute. Both have been voices in the wilderness about the incentives ObamaCare creates for businesses to drop coverage and dump their employees into "free" coverage, which really will "explode the deficit" far more than CBO projects.

But our core appeal isn't to this technical detail or that underlying assumption. It's to common sense. Amid the repeal debate, Democrats and the media are behaving as if they have no knowledge of Congress's habits or the history of government health-care programs over the last half-century. Entitlements are always sold as modest and "paid for," then years later everyone suddenly discovers that they are "unaffordable" without digging deeper into the pockets of the middle class. How do you think Medicare and Medicaid got to their current pass?

The government can't subsidize coverage for tens of millions of new people and simultaneously reduce the deficit, as most Americans seem to intuitively understand. The real offense Republicans are committing in the eyes of Washington is exposing its illusions.

SOURCE
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Sun 9 Jan, 2011 07:26 pm
@okie,
okie, That's one of those accusations when you respond doesn't prove anything. "I am not a crook."
parados
 
  0  
Sun 9 Jan, 2011 07:33 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:
What you appear to not understand is that CLAIMS the US killed "tens of thousands of innocent people around the world 1917 to 1987" fails to be supported by evidence that these people were innocents.

How many civilians were killed in the Vietnam war by US bombing?

If you want to argue that civilians are not innocent then you need to provide some evidence supporting it.
HINT - the estimates for civilian deaths from US bombing range from 52,000 to 185,000. A large range but all in the 10's of thousands.

Quote:
What you appear to not understand is that CLAIMS that the US killed huge numbers of innocent people 1950 to 2010 is also unsupported by evidence.
Bullshit. Your own source lists the democide of Vietnam civilians by US bombing. Is your source valid or not?
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.TAB6.1A.GIF

Quote:
What you appear to not understand is that while the US appears to have killed a number of innocent people, that number is no where near how many innocent people were killed by other nations since 1917.
Trying to change the subject? <sarcasm>What you fail to understand is because the color red can be found in nature means that the US killed innocent people.</sarcasm> But you are still an idiot ican, in spite of your attempt to change the subject.
okie
 
  1  
Sun 9 Jan, 2011 07:35 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
okie, That's one of those accusations when you respond doesn't prove anything. "I am not a crook."
I don't have to prove anything anyway. You or pom can believe anything, including the moon is made out of cheese, for all I care. You can even believe that parados milked cows twice a day from the age of 7 until he was 16 too, as he claimed.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 9 Jan, 2011 07:36 pm
@parados,
When you wish to talk about the US crimes, he wants to talk about other countries. That's his games-playing that never ends, and it gets tiresome.

See! He wants to talk about cheese.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Sun 9 Jan, 2011 07:42 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

ObamaCare's Reality Deficit
If you believe that a new entitlement saves money, you'll believe anything..
That about sums it up, Finn.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  -1  
Sun 9 Jan, 2011 07:44 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
If only the opinion piece had actual sources....

Double counted SS and Medicare? No.. they counted money in and money out. It's the GOP that wants to count future outlays in 30 years time as if they happen in the next 10 years. I wonder if the GOP counted the revenues from that 30 year time frame? I'm guessing not.

parados
 
  1  
Sun 9 Jan, 2011 07:45 pm
@okie,
Meanwhile okie spent months denying that he ever claimed Obama was working to destroy this country. Even today he still pretends he never said it and never denied it.
okie
 
  1  
Sun 9 Jan, 2011 07:59 pm
@parados,
Did you ever find the quote, parados?
parados
 
  1  
Sun 9 Jan, 2011 08:39 pm
@okie,
ROFLMAO..
Did you forget about me posting it and you having to admit you were wrong? Are you senile okie?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 9 Jan, 2011 09:11 pm
@parados,
His brain is programmed to forget things that makes him look stupid and irresponsible. He can't admit his lies and contradictions, because his ego won't allow it.

He wants you to go back and research what you posted to prove his lies. Unfortunately for okie, most of us remember them.

Even if you go back and repost his lies, he'll demand again some time later that he never said such a thing.

Merry-go-round okie; his circular arguments with the same scenery gets old.
 

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