mysteryman
 
  0  
Fri 7 Jan, 2011 06:18 pm
@JTT,
Since you consider every war the US has ever fought to be a crime started and committed by the US, how can you say that dem presidents "probably" committed crimes?

Lets examine some facts...
Vietnam was started by a dem president
Korea, a dem president got us into that
WW2, a dem president got us into that one

Just those 3 wars have caused the deaths of more Americans and caused more innocent people to be hurt or killed than what the Republican presidents combined have done.

Isn't that a crime, or are you excusing them?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 7 Jan, 2011 06:37 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:

WW2, a dem president got us into that one


Well, that's a stretch, man. More accurate to say that the Japanese got us into that one.

Cycloptichorn
djjd62
 
  1  
Fri 7 Jan, 2011 06:39 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
there was a japanese president Shocked
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 7 Jan, 2011 06:39 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
maybe mm believes we should never retaliate from attacks
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Fri 7 Jan, 2011 06:50 pm
Okie's signature line states the truth whether any fumbling or fraudulent Democrat agrees with it or not!
oki in his signature line, wrote:
The corollary of freedom is individual responsibility.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Fri 7 Jan, 2011 06:55 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Oh really?
Tell me, what threat were the Germans or Italians to the US?
Neither one of them had the ability to directly threaten us. Neither one of them had attacked us.

So why did we attack them?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 7 Jan, 2011 06:56 pm
@ican711nm,
Now, correlate that to how the GOP and the liberals have instituted "freedoms" during the past decade?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 7 Jan, 2011 06:57 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Oh really?
Tell me, what threat were the Germans or Italians to the US?
Neither one of them had the ability to directly threaten us. Neither one of them had attacked us.

So why did we attack them?


Because they were direct allies with the people who attacked us, and they were attacking countries who were our allies (at least ideologically) at the time.

Dude, c'mon. To say that WW2 was a Dem president who 'got us into the war' is a little ridiculous. If we weren't attacked at PH we likely would not have gotten involved - but once we did, we were in it to win it.

Cycloptichorn
mysteryman
 
  0  
Fri 7 Jan, 2011 06:57 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I repeat...when did the Germans or the Italians attack us first?
What were we retaliating for? They had nothing to do with the attack on Pearl Harbor.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 7 Jan, 2011 07:00 pm
@mysteryman,
You named WWII; I was responding to that point only. Would you have preferred that the democratic president ignore Japan's bombing of Pearl Harbor?
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Fri 7 Jan, 2011 07:02 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:

WW2, a dem president got us into that one


Well, that's a stretch, man. More accurate to say that the Japanese got us into that one.
Cycloptichorn


Well, your'e both right. The Japanese attack got us into the war and then Both Germany and Italy unilaterally declared war on us. However, history clearly shows that President Roosevelt had been working strenuously for some time to get us into the war, despite his many public promises to do the opposite. A good case can be made for the proposition that by cutting off U.S. exports of scrap steel and petroleum Roosevelt was deliberately attempting to provoke a war with Japan.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 7 Jan, 2011 07:04 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob, Good point; I remember now that you mentioned it. Of coarse there are flip-sides to everything. If we did provide Japan with the raw materials it wanted, they would have expanded their occupation of the Far and SE Asia. Not good for the US.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  0  
Fri 7 Jan, 2011 07:08 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
So even though they had not attacked us, and dis not have the capability to, we attacked them because we thought they were a potential threat to us.

After all, we had no alliance with Poland, Russia or almost any other country that the Germans attacked.
And I don't believe we had any type of formal alliance with France at the time either.
So please inform all of us exactly which country did Germany or Italy attack that had an alliance with us?
BTW, we had no formal military alliance with England at the time either, all we had was the lend-lease agreement.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 7 Jan, 2011 07:29 pm
@mysteryman,
From Wiki:
Quote:
Operation Pastorius
Main article: Operation Pastorius

Upon declaring war on the United States, Adolf Hitler ordered the remaining German saboteurs to wreak havoc on the country. The responsibility for carrying this out was given to German Intelligence (Abwehr). In June 1942, eight agents were recruited and divided into two teams: the first, commanded by George John Dasch, with Ernst Peter Burger, Heinrich Heinck and Richard Quirin; the second, under the command of Edward Kerling, with Hermann Neubauer, Werner Thiel and Herbert Haupt.

On June 12, 1942, the U-boat U-202 landed Dasch's team with explosives and plans at East Hampton, Long Island, New York.[8] Their mission was to destroy power plants at Niagara Falls and three Aluminum Company of America (ALCOA) factories in Illinois, Tennessee and New York. Dasch instead turned himself in to the FBI, providing them with a complete account of the planned mission, which led to the arrest of the entire team.

Kerling's team landed from U-584 at Ponte Vedra Beach (25 miles [40 km] south-east of Jacksonville, Florida), on June 17. They were tasked with laying mines in four areas: the Pennsylvania Railroad in Newark, New Jersey, canal sluices in both St. Louis and Cincinnati, and New York City's water supply pipes. The team made their way to Cincinnati, Ohio and split up, with two going to Chicago, Illinois and the others to New York. The Dasch confession led to the arrest of all of the men by July 10.

All eight German agents were tried, convicted by the Military Commission, with six men sentenced to death. President Roosevelt approved the sentences. The constitutionality of the military commissions was upheld by the Supreme Court in Ex parte Quirin and the six men were executed by electrocution on August 8. Dasch and Burger were given thirty-year prison sentences. Both were released in 1948 and deported to Germany.[9] Dasch (aka George Davis), who had been a longtime American resident before the war, suffered a difficult life in Germany after his return from U.S. custody because of his cooperation with U.S. authorities. As a condition of his deportation, he was not permitted to return to the United States, even though he spent many years writing letters to prominent American authorities (J. Edgar Hoover, President Eisenhower, etc.) seeking permission to return. He eventually moved to Switzerland and wrote a book, titled Eight Spies Against America.[10
JTT
 
  1  
Fri 7 Jan, 2011 07:31 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:
Lets examine some facts...


Doing anything that anywhere approaches that is anathema to you.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Fri 7 Jan, 2011 07:39 pm
@JTT,
Then why are you afraid to look at them and show where I am wrong?
mysteryman
 
  0  
Fri 7 Jan, 2011 07:47 pm
@cicerone imposter,
So a few German spies landed and attempted to do some damage.
You apparently didn't notice that was in June of 1942, AFTER we had been at war for 6 months.

But prior to Dec of 1941, what units of the German or Italian military attacked any part of the US, its territories or its possessions?
Answer...none

So I repeat my claim that a Democrat president got us into a war in Europe we had no business being in, making him responsible for every American soldier killed, wounded, or missing. And he is also responsible for every civilian killed or wounded by American forces during that war, even if it was accidental.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 7 Jan, 2011 07:50 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:

1941: Germany and Italy declare war on US
Germany and Italy have announced they are at war with the United States. America immediately responded by declaring war on the two Axis powers.

Three days ago, US President Franklin Roosevelt announced America was at war with Japan, the third Axis power, following the surprise attack on its naval base at Pearl Harbor.
JTT
 
  -1  
Fri 7 Jan, 2011 07:56 pm
@mysteryman,
It's not me, MM. You've shown yourself time and again to be easily the chickenshit equivalent of an Okie, Ican or h2oman.

I even started a thread where you could extoll the virtues of the US and there was stone cold silence. That's what happens to propaganda; there's little to no substance to it.
mysteryman
 
  0  
Fri 7 Jan, 2011 08:03 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I am not denying that. Oh, so you are saying that we have to respond to every threat made, even by countries that had no way to attack us, just because they threatened us and wanted to wage war?
 

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