mysteryman
 
  1  
Thu 9 Dec, 2010 07:40 pm
One thing that is interesting.
Now the dems are in dangef of being anti workef. Many of them are oppposing the tax plan that Obama worked out with the repubs. But included in that plan is an extension of unemployment benefits.
So, are the dems now opposed to that extension?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Thu 9 Dec, 2010 07:42 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

One thing that is interesting.
Now the dems are in dangef of being anti workef. Many of them are oppposing the tax plan that Obama worked out with the repubs. But included in that plan is an extension of unemployment benefits.
So, are the dems now opposed to that extension?


They are opposed to Republican thuggery on the tax issue, all in the name of making the very rich, richer. At any cost.

Not only that, the 'deal' is ridiculously bad for Dems, for SS, and for America as a whole.

Cycloptichorn
georgeob1
 
  0  
Thu 9 Dec, 2010 08:53 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

They are opposed to Republican thuggery on the tax issue, all in the name of making the very rich, richer. At any cost.
Is that something like the Democrat thuggery over the drafting of the healthcare legislation? I suspect it isn't the tactics you despise, only those employing them. It is you who characterize the Republican motives as "making the very rich, richer". They have described it very differently and, though you may not agree, have some good reasons for doing so.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Not only that, the 'deal' is ridiculously bad for Dems, for SS, and for America as a whole.

Cycloptichorn
Evidently President Obama and many (not all) Democrats don't agree with you.
rabel22
 
  -1  
Fri 10 Dec, 2010 12:35 am
@georgeob1,
Your friend Bush passed the drug bill and not only dident fund it but cut taxes so it was unpaid for. The republicans are continueing the bush policy of trying to destroy soc. sec. because it benefits the middle class. I wonder when the electroate will wake to the fact that the republicans have always been and continue to be the party of the rich.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Fri 10 Dec, 2010 12:54 am
@mysteryman,
I suspect that was a bit of legitimate compromise.
revelette
 
  1  
Fri 10 Dec, 2010 07:56 am
@roger,
Quote:
I suspect that was a bit of legitimate compromise.


It's like putting a half of a teaspoon in a big jar of medicine, most of which you don't need but does have ingredients you do need you may not be able to get any other way.

Perhaps not all of republicans think like the current prominent bunch we have today, however the things they fight for are usually things which only benefit the wealthiest among us.

For example:

Quote:
What surprised me the most about the deal was what the Republicans thought most critical to our economic future. They fought for and won on two major points -- the temporary extension of Bush era tax rates on incomes over $200,000 a year a person and $250,000 per family, and a trimming of the inheritance tax. Both of these "victories" protected the very wealthiest among us from modest tax increases. The expiration of the individual income tax rates would have increased a wealthy person's tax bill by less than 10%, and returned to rates which were in place during the greatest economic boom in American history. Republican claims that restoring these rates would be risky for the recovery remain more political spin than sound economics.

The Republican strategy on display this week reinforces how intellectually bankrupt and ideologically enthralled with wealth but not growth and broad based prosperity the right has become. Their big "wins" were to protect the wealthy in a time of historic inequality, offer nothing concrete to help grow the economy and, and perhaps most remarkably, refusing to accept the most powerful deficit reduction tool currently available to either party -- the expiration of the high-end tax rates -- after spending 18 months attacking the Democrats for letting the deficit grow too much. The deal reminds all of us that the Republicans rhetorical commitment to deficit reduction is the big lie of American politics today.

Like many I am disappointed with aspects of the deal, but President Obama enters the next round of this debate having won some major concessions from the GOP; reinforced his position as a champion for everyday people and the overall American economy; and having had his opponents publicly and foolishly choose the interests of the wealthiest among us over the national interest or the American people at a time of great national challenge. While this may not have been a rout for President Obama, I think he enters the next and much more consequential stage of this battle in better shape than his out of touch conservative adversaries, and the American people enter 2011 also better off than they would have been otherwise. That's perhaps the best holiday present we can give to the American people in these challenging times.


source

Sure some democrats say that Obama caved and granted he did, but in my opinion he did it knowing the political times he has to work to get things passed in. Later after the taxes expire when the new bunch comes in, the atmosphere is going to be much much more worse than even it is now. This new tea party bunch will only be investigating Obama and sabotaging the country they claim to love in order to win in 2012, hopefully that will backfire. This compromise, has been a rare moment since Obama has been elected, so in my opinion, Polosi and others should just hold their noses over the things they don't like and pass it so that the things we do need right now, will get passed.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Fri 10 Dec, 2010 08:05 am


Why does the liberal left insist on punishing successful achievers?
revelette
 
  2  
Fri 10 Dec, 2010 08:23 am
@H2O MAN,
It is not a matter of punishing, but what is better for the people under government as a whole. Right now we are going through some pretty tough times which has been hit the hardest for people not in the wealthiest few percent in the country. In order to help the economy for the whole, we need the middle class to recover. This bill is not a fix it for the middle class, but we have to extend the tax cuts for the middle class and unemployment benefits or face worse conditions that we have right now and the only way to do it is to compromise.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Fri 10 Dec, 2010 08:29 am
@revelette,
revelette wrote:

It is not a matter of punishing, but what is better for the people under government as a whole.


I appreciate your opinion, but that is just wrong.

This policy of punishing the earners and achievers is only going to decrease their numbers in this country.
Who will the liberal left punish when the upper class is gone?

Keeping the Bush tax rates for everyone is the correct thing to do.
Reducing the Bush tax rates for everything is an even better policy.

Allowing the liberal left to increase taxes on anyone is an insane policy that will only harm our country.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Fri 10 Dec, 2010 10:16 am
@revelette,
The smart thing to do is to vacate our war in Afghanistan, and create jobs at home to build and repair our infrastructure. That in turn will increase consumer spending that will have a multiplier effect on our economy as demand increases for more consumer goods and services.

The war in Afghanistan is not winnable; that's a fact.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Fri 10 Dec, 2010 10:27 am
@georgeob1,
Quote:

Evidently President Obama and many (not all) Democrats don't agree with you.


Evidently not, but is that surprising? The Dems in both the House and Senate were too cowardly to hold these tax votes earlier in the year, fearing what it might do to their re-election chances. Well, they sure read those tea leaves wrong, because they got clobbered anyway - and standing up for an important issue for their base would have been one of the best ways to rally the troops before the election.

Now Obama's in a box - he knows he won't get any more stimulus out of the new Republican Congress and his advisers (Rubinites one and all - the biggest mistake he ever made was putting Summers and Geithner in charge of anything, sheesh) are likely telling him that this is the best deal he'll get, because the stimulus portions of the bill actually aren't all that small.

I think it's not a terrible deal for the 'Re-elect Obama in 2012' project. It's a horrible deal for the nation and our future finances.

Cycloptichorn
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 10 Dec, 2010 10:33 am
@Cycloptichorn,
That's already been proven; the GOP stopped the Obama extra-spending during the last budget go-around.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Fri 10 Dec, 2010 11:56 am
Alinsky’s Heaven on Earth

It is equivalent to a hell and not a heaven on earth, because it disparages and suppresses equal individual liberty that allows unequal individual achievement.

Obama is an Alinsky disciple and like Alinsky, Obama is a nihilist.

Quote:
Saul Alinsky talk:

The radical is not a reformer of the system but its would-be destroyer;

The radical is building his own kingdom, a kingdom of heaven on earth;

The revolutionary’s purpose is to undermine the system by taking from the HAVES and giving it to the HAVENOTS and then see what happens;

The most basic principle for radicals is lie to opponents and disarm them by pretending to be moderates and liberals;

"The issue is never the issue. The issue is always the revolution."The stated cause is never the real cause, but only an occasion to advance the real cause which is accumulation of power to make the revolution;

The radical organizer does not have a fixed truth—truth to him is relative and changing; everything to him is relative and changing. He is a political relativist;


Quote:
Radicals should be "political relativists."They should take an agnostic view of means and ends;

We should not forget to acknowledge the very first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom—Lucifer;

We are not virtuous by not wanting power. We are really cowards for not wanting power, because power is good and powerlessness is evil;

To say that corrupt means corrupt the ends is to believe in the immaculate conception of ends and principles.

Life is a corrupting process;

He who fears corruption fears life;

The standard of the revolution is democracy--a democracy which upends all social hierarchies, including those based on merit;

He builds his initial power base among the underclass and the urban poor by calling to make the last ones first and the first ones equal to the last ones.


Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Fri 10 Dec, 2010 02:26 pm
Graham: Americans ‘See Weakness’ in Obama’s ‘Political Immaturity’
By Robert Costa
Posted on December 09, 2010 1:00 PM

Washington — Sen. Lindsey Graham (R., S.C.), one of the Senate’s high-profile mavericks, tells National Review Online that President Obama’s “whining” over the tax deal reveals his “political immaturity.”

“By using rhetoric that calls us ‘hostage-takers,’ he believes, somehow, that the Left will give him some credit for hating us, or putting us in a bad light. But it just lowers him,” Graham says. “He is whining, and no one likes a whining president. . . . There is a lot of disappointment on our side. Quite frankly, this is going to be hard to forget.”

The American people, Graham says, “see weakness” in how the president has handled the agreement. “They see a guy who is unsure of himself, who is political to a fault. He’s always got his finger up in the air, and that’s not comforting.”

“I think he’s adrift,” Graham says. “His instincts, I think, are to be more centrist, since that’s the political future for him. But he doesn’t feel comfortable taking on his own party. And he sure doesn’t know how to cut a deal and sell it. This goes back to experience. He’s never done this stuff before. I hope the message is, before you elect someone president of the United States, the more experience they have in the real world, the better. He’s never sat down with a group of Republicans and Democrats —hard-headed right and hard-headed left — and hammered out a deal.”

Graham tells us that he comes to these conclusions reluctantly. “I don’t throw bombs for the hell of throwing bombs,” he says. “I don’t hate the president; I don’t question his birth or his patriotism. I try to work across party lines on big things that have to be done in a bipartisan way.” The president, he adds, “doesn’t understand the consequences that come from playing cheap politics and biting rhetoric when you’re the president of the United States.”

“I like the president personally, but he’s whining to the Left about ‘You’re putting too much pressure on me,’ and he’s whining to us about making his life difficult,” Graham continues. “What he ought to do is say ‘I support this deal, it’s the best thing for the country, it’s not what I would like in a perfect world, but I stand by it and I’m going to sell it the best I can and put America ahead of anything else.’ That means you don’t belittle your opponent or attack your base for having differences with you — triangulate without making everyone mad.”

Turning to the Senate, Graham calls Majority Leader Harry Reid’s handling of the lame-duck session “small-minded” and “tone deaf,” emblematic of the “last gasp of liberalism.” Reid, he sighs, by trying to shuffle numerous bills through at the last minute, is holding a “bazaar for special-interest groups.”

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/254932/graham-americans-see-weakness-obamas-political-immaturity-robert-costa
0 Replies
 
Brand WTF
 
  0  
Fri 10 Dec, 2010 02:35 pm
HELP ME, BILL!
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Fri 10 Dec, 2010 02:50 pm
What democrat said "**** the president" behind closed doors?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  0  
Fri 10 Dec, 2010 02:54 pm
Quote:
Profanity, Anger Spill Over in House Democratic Caucus Meeting
By Anna Palmer
Roll Call Staff
Dec. 9, 2010, 2:29 p.m.

The frustration with President Barack Obama over his tax cut compromise was palpable and even profane at Thursday’s House Democratic Caucus meeting.

One unidentified lawmaker went so far as to mutter “f--- the president” while Rep. Shelley Berkley was defending the package the president negotiated with Republicans. Berkley confirmed the incident, although she declined to name the specific lawmaker.

“It wasn’t loud,” the Nevada Democrat said. “It was just expressing frustration from a very frustrated Member.”

Rep. Jerrold Nadler (N.Y.) was also overheard saying that “we can’t trust him” not to cave to Republicans and extend the tax cuts again in two years, according to a Democratic source.

The anger aimed at the bill was widespread. As Democrats moved to block the bill from coming up on the floor, chants of “Just say no!” could be heard by reporters outside the room.

Berkley is one of the few Democrats publicly supporting the package. While she said it wasn’t necessarily how she would have written it, the bill should go forward in her estimation because it is “chock full” of tax cuts that will help the working class in her state.

“I’m not willing to play Russian roulette to see who blinks first,” Berkley said.

http://www.rollcall.com/news/-201347-1.html?zkPrintable=true

What a master politician our president is.

I don't blame the House Dems on whit for being pissed off at him.

For the last two years they have been standing up for his policies. On more than one occasion they went on the record and voted on controversial bills like Cap & Trade only to see the Dem Senate take a pass and leave them hanging. In the end it was their house of congress that was decimated, not the Senate.

Now Obama needs to be seen moving to the center to have any hope for re-election in 2012 and so he cuts a deal with Republican Senators; cutting the House Dems out of the picture. He then sends Joey B. to the Capital to make sure they know it's a done deal and there's nothing that can be done about it.

"F... the president!" Damned straight!

But it wasn't loud which means that unlike "You lie!"it can't signal the end of civility in our political discourse, it can't possibly inflame passions that might lead to ideologically motivated violence, and it can't be thinly veiled racism.

Don't worry, the anonymous (for now) critic doesn't need to be censured nor should he or she be required to resign. It was just frustration after all.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 10 Dec, 2010 03:48 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:

Now Obama needs to be seen moving to the center to have any hope for re-election in 2012


This is a hell of an assertion. Based on what data? His approval ratings, with the general public and with Dems in general, are just fine.

Cycloptichorn
realjohnboy
 
  2  
Fri 10 Dec, 2010 04:28 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I agree with Finn, Cyclo, but I will have to get back to you later. I am finishing up a series of posts on the Econ thread.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -4  
Fri 10 Dec, 2010 04:54 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:



Don't worry, the anonymous (for now) critic doesn't need to be censured nor should he or she be required to resign. It was just frustration after all.



It's more than frustration.

People are ashamed to admit they voted for Obama or ever supported
him and they don't want to keep him in the White House for another term.

I understand the search for a democrat to run against Obama
in the next presidential election is well under way. Good luck.
 

Related Topics

So....Will Biden Be VP? - Question by blueveinedthrobber
My view on Obama - Discussion by McGentrix
Obama/ Love Him or Hate Him, We've Got Him - Discussion by Phoenix32890
Obama fumbles at Faith Forum - Discussion by slkshock7
Expert: Obama is not the antichrist - Discussion by joefromchicago
Obama's State of the Union - Discussion by maxdancona
Obama 2012? - Discussion by snood
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Obama '08?
  3. » Page 1877
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.18 seconds on 03/18/2025 at 10:22:11