dyslexia
 
  1  
Fri 30 Mar, 2007 10:36 am
I kinda wonder if Lieberman got hisself elected because of the jewish vote.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Fri 30 Mar, 2007 10:37 am
sozobe wrote:
Gah.

Again, when little was known about Obama BUT his skin color, he got the lowest numbers in polls of black people. If it was just about skin color, those polls would have been high right out of the gate.


It just took some time to sink in.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Fri 30 Mar, 2007 10:46 am
dyslexia wrote:
I kinda wonder if Lieberman got hisself elected because of the jewish vote.


Lieberman had a history. Consider would a white candidate with the credentials, or lack thereof of Obama even get honorable mention in a race for candidacy of the office of president?
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 30 Mar, 2007 10:46 am
<gestures helplessly, looks around at the assembled, gives up>

Kind of interesting article about how George Clooney is a major Obama supporter (I hadn't known that) but is trying to figure out how he can best help Obama. There is a concern that the whole celebrity-endorsement could harm more than it would help.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Fri 30 Mar, 2007 12:17 pm
sozobe wrote:
Gah.

Again, when little was known about Obama BUT his skin color, he got the lowest numbers in polls of black people. If it was just about skin color, those polls would have been high right out of the gate.
You are absolutely correct. The assumption that blacks will vote for Obama simply because of his skin color ignores the FACT that a) initially the polls didn't reflect that and b) the more black voters learn about his politics; the more they'd like him if he was pink. 80% sounds reasonable enough to me; but my opinion is based on the FACT that Obama's politics are as black-friendly as his skin color.

Further, I don't see anything wrong with the idea of black people voting for him because of his skin color anyway... if only to offset the prejudiced who'll vote against him for the same reason. Hell, I'm inclined to myself. I'd estimate that I'm giving Obama a 5 point handicap for this very purpose; meaning I'll have to like a competitor at least 5 points more for it to be a tie for my vote.

I personally think the symbolic benefit of electing a Black President is worth those 5 points. It would signal, to me, a significant step in showing that we are that much closer to color-blind. In truth, I think it would demonstrate that Obama is extraordinary, however, in that I don't believe the average black candidate (with the same politics) could even come this far. So be it. Progress is progress.

I believe it is very much in the best interest of the United States to demonstrate to the under developed world that our philosophy of 'all men are created equal' is superior... and electing a black man (minority) to the highest office in the land could have a significant impact. I can easily imagine a debate between Sunnis going like this--> "Those damned capitalist bastards preach equality but they expect us to live out our lives being dictated to by the f*cking Shia. Hypocrites I tell you!"..."I don't know dude; Blacks in America are more of a minority than we are... and they did just elect a black President. Maybe there is something uniting about this capitalism business." Next thing you know they'd toss their AK-47's in the sand and break out in song:
John Lennon wrote:
Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one


Seriously though. I think a demonstration that we practice what we preach would have some positive effect.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Fri 30 Mar, 2007 12:19 pm
Ps. I remain moved by Snood's "What it would mean to me..." speech.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Fri 30 Mar, 2007 12:30 pm
snood wrote:
Thomas wrote:
snood wrote:
Something that I think is sadly obvious, and yet remaining unsaid thus far, is that Edwards may be the beneficiary of all those votes that won't go to Obama because he's black. I think he is probably going to be the nominee, and not the least of the reasons is that he's the only major dem candidate that's not female or black.

So far, the polls among registered Democrats strongyly disagree with you. What seems sadly obvious to you doesn't seem obvious to me at all. In fact it seems mistaken to me. Although Edwards is my close-second-favorite candidate at this point, I hereby offer to bet 2:1 that he won't be the nominee.

Who do you think will? And why do you give credence to a poll that's 18-months out?

I think either Hillary Clinton or Obama will. That's a judgment call, and I cannot give you a bullet-proof argument for my conclusion. All I can tell you is that I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. (Notice, by the way, that the odds I am offering you are much lower than those suggested by bookies and pollsters. The bookies see the odds against Edwards closer to 20:1.) So if you think my judgment is inadequate, bet against me and make some money in 2008.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Fri 30 Mar, 2007 01:16 pm
Why would he take 2 to 1 if he can get 20? Where is that, btw? Edwards is a steal at 20 to 1...
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Fri 30 Mar, 2007 04:07 pm
sozobe wrote:
Gah.

Again, when little was known about Obama BUT his skin color, he got the lowest numbers in polls of black people. If it was just about skin color, those polls would have been high right out of the gate.


Exactly, Soz...

Thomas:
Quote:

I think either Hillary Clinton or Obama will. That's a judgment call, and I cannot give you a bullet-proof argument for my conclusion. All I can tell you is that I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. (Notice, by the way, that the odds I am offering you are much lower than those suggested by bookies and pollsters. The bookies see the odds against Edwards closer to 20:1.) So if you think my judgment is inadequate, bet against me and make some money in 2008.


Here's the thing, Thomas. I'm doubtful that this country will elect a black or a woman, but I'm hopeful that they will, so I won't bet against it - bad juju, you know?
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Fri 30 Mar, 2007 04:30 pm
OCCOM BILL
If someone gave the reason for not voting for Obama was that he was a black. You no doubt would call that person a racist. I wonder what you would call it when someone votes for Obama because he is black. "Affirmative Action.?"
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Fri 30 Mar, 2007 04:33 pm
au1929 wrote:
Consider would a white candidate with the credentials, or lack thereof of Obama even get honorable mention in a race for candidacy of the office of president?

Jesse Jackson was black and a presidential contender.
Barack Obama is black and a presidential contender.
Obama is getting a lot better polling, in particular among whites, than Jesse did.
Ergo, Obama must have something more to bring than his skincolour - cbeause that, Jesse had as well.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Fri 30 Mar, 2007 04:38 pm
au1929 wrote:
OCCOM BILL
If someone gave the reason for not voting for Obama was that he was a black. You no doubt would call that person a racist. I wonder what you would call it when someone votes for Obama because he is black. "Affirmative Action.?"
That would be fair enough. It would be a corrective measure, wouldn't it? Tax credits for the poor aren't viewed in the same light as tax credits for the rich, are they?
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Fri 30 Mar, 2007 04:39 pm
Jesse was a wll known commodity with plenty of baggage when he attempted to run.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Fri 30 Mar, 2007 04:44 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
au1929 wrote:
OCCOM BILL
If someone gave the reason for not voting for Obama was that he was a black. You no doubt would call that person a racist. I wonder what you would call it when someone votes for Obama because he is black. "Affirmative Action.?"
That would be fair enough. It would be a corrective measure, wouldn't it? Tax credits for the poor aren't viewed in the same light as tax credits for the rich, are they?



That is a lot of crap and you are smart enough to know it. But than again that falls right in line with giving Obama 5 extra points for being black.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Fri 30 Mar, 2007 04:50 pm
Being the fallible and emotion laden human bean that I am, i would give Obama 7 1/2 points out of the gate. But then, I give Kucinich 10.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Fri 30 Mar, 2007 04:54 pm
dyslexia wrote:
Being the fallible and emotion laden human bean that I am, i would give Obama 7 1/2 points out of the gate.[/quote.

So would I if he were running in the 5th at Pimlico.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Fri 30 Mar, 2007 04:57 pm
au1929 wrote:
Jesse was a wll known commodity with plenty of baggage when he attempted to run.

Well, right, but he was black too. So being black apparently is not by itself enough to get the votes Obama now gets, which is what you have been arguing here.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Fri 30 Mar, 2007 05:00 pm
dyslexia wrote:
Being the fallible and emotion laden human bean that I am, i would give Obama 7 1/2 points out of the gate. But then, I give Kucinich 10.


that's funny, Dys.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Fri 30 Mar, 2007 05:08 pm
nimh wrote:
au1929 wrote:
Jesse was a wll known commodity with plenty of baggage when he attempted to run.

Well, right, but he was black too. So being black apparently is not by itself enough to get the votes Obama now gets, which is what you have been arguing here.


I said that he would get an overwhelming number of Blacks voting for him with the underlying reason for many being his skin color.

I wonder why you did not ask about the reverand Al "Charlatan"
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Fri 30 Mar, 2007 05:11 pm
au1929 wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
au1929 wrote:
OCCOM BILL
If someone gave the reason for not voting for Obama was that he was a black. You no doubt would call that person a racist. I wonder what you would call it when someone votes for Obama because he is black. "Affirmative Action.?"
That would be fair enough. It would be a corrective measure, wouldn't it? Tax credits for the poor aren't viewed in the same light as tax credits for the rich, are they?



That is a lot of crap and you are smart enough to know it. But than again that falls right in line with giving Obama 5 extra points for being black.
I'm smart enough to recognize the inherent ignorance in a position that views corrective measures to level a playing field as a load of crap. Idea
0 Replies
 
 

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