JTT
 
  0  
Tue 31 Aug, 2010 12:07 pm
@mysteryman,
Can you imagine the lack of outrage when a repub admin official said something like this?

"Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."

That same repub official then proceeded to terrorize two innocent countries, cause the deaths of tens of thousands, ruin countless lives, torture, spread WMDs far and wide over those countries lands, break international law, ... .

Can you imagine the lack of outrage?
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  2  
Tue 31 Aug, 2010 12:07 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
The question was rhetorical.

But, will there be any outrage that an Obama cabinet member sent out this e-mail?

Its the double standard that I am trying to point out.
JTT
 
  -1  
Tue 31 Aug, 2010 12:13 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:
Its the double standard that I am trying to point out.


Yes, you're really good at that, MM.

My question wasn't rhetorical.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  2  
Tue 31 Aug, 2010 12:17 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Would you count Moveon.org as a "grassroots" organization?
JTT
 
  1  
Tue 31 Aug, 2010 12:22 pm
@georgeob1,
Hey, George. How's it goin' for you on this fine morning?

What's your favorite excuse for minimizing US crimes against humanity, or do you have more than one?

===============

* I didn't vote for him

* most people don't support him

* I engaged in some forms of protest

* although the forms of protest I engaged in were mocked and derided by the government and by those in the media, I did everything I could do and I sure felt good about myself as I protested

* if it weren't for the fact that the government would arrest and possibly kill me, I would have done more

* I didn't see anything directly, so I wasn't sure of how bad it actually was

* people in positions of high authority convinced me that whatever they were doing was for the best

* I live in a civilized, democratic country, certainly the most civilized and democratic that has ever been, and my country wouldn't do evil things

* these people were going to destroy our country, so what we had to do was just self-defense

* why do you blame us when we're the victims?

* there are many people in my country who support our government with a radical fervor, many of them my neighbors and relatives, and I want to get along with them or I fear their reaction should I dare to express dissent

* anyone who expresses the least amount of dissent faces the general hatred of the public

* anyone who expresses the least amount of dissent may lose his or her job or livelihood

* anything I might have done wouldn't have made any difference

* the people who are doing the work of the government are 'our troops', and must be supported in whatever they have to do on our behalf

* the alleged victims of my government aren't fully human, and their lives aren't worth even the slightest inconvenience or risk to our lives

* the alleged victims of my government have a false and evil religion, and my true religion gives me the right to eliminate them

* after the sufferings we've faced, no one can dare tell us what to do

* what my country is doing is actually for the improvement of the lives of what busybodies describe as its 'victims'

* my country right or wrong (no, sorry, that is someone else - the Germans weren't that stupid)

* our leaders are particularly blessed and wise, with a direct line to God, and would never do the wrong thing.

===========================
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Tue 31 Aug, 2010 12:29 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:

Would you count Moveon.org as a "grassroots" organization?


It certainly started out that way, and their funding is generally from small donations. However, they have matured into a very large advocacy group on the Left, so I don't think it's accurate to call them 'grassroots' any longer. They are established players in the political arena at this point.

My guess is that this wasn't the answer you were looking for.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Tue 31 Aug, 2010 12:53 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:
US Army Lt William Calley comes to mind.
He was convicted for his role in leading the My Lai massacre during the vietnam war.


Good one, MM. For the murder of how many innocent men women and children, he served how many days in jail? Where is he now? What's he doing?

In the USA, three strikes [for some pretty petty stuff] and you're out. Slaughter, [again, I ask you, does it come to mind, MM?] how many innocent men women and children were butchered, and you get a presidential pardon.

Sorry, I should have let you point out the double standard.
Advocate
 
  1  
Tue 31 Aug, 2010 01:08 pm
@JTT,
I last heard about Calley about two years ago. Someone found him living in the South and working as a jeweler.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Tue 31 Aug, 2010 01:12 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
What's your favorite excuse for minimizing US crimes against humanity, or do you have more than one?

Please list what you believe to be the top 3 US crimes against humanity that you think have been minimized.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  -1  
Tue 31 Aug, 2010 02:46 pm
@ican711nm,
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Tue 31 Aug, 2010 02:54 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I may be the only poster here who ever dealt with ACORN. It's completely witsyendy.

I had a tiny mortgage -- monthly payments were equal to the rent on a 2-bedroom apartment where I lived. (Since moving to this area three years ago today, I have had five jobs. I work at a liquor store and teach at a community college. I also substituted at a local high school; had a temping gig as a low level administrator at a state university, and was one of the writers who produced a teachers' manual for a publishing house.) Supposedly, the minimum salary needed for this are was $22,000 as of September 2008.

Anyway, I wasn't earning the minimum. I looked for ways to rewrite the mortgage to a lower interest rate but there was a catch. I didn't have a full time job. I consulted with ACORN.

I had an appt. I went to the appointment. The offices were closed. I shoved a note under the door and left a voice mail message for the person I was to have met.

They never responded. I emailed the national org. A woman called me when I was working in a dead zone. I tried to call her back but she never returned my calls.

Wow! No wonder the right shakes in fear of ACORN.
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Tue 31 Aug, 2010 02:55 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:

Can you imagine the outrage if a repub admin official had sent out an e-mail like this


They do it all the time
0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  0  
Tue 31 Aug, 2010 02:56 pm
@georgeob1,
Moveon is grassroots.
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Wed 1 Sep, 2010 11:44 am
Quote:

Congressional Report Lists 36 Pages of Obama’s Crimes
Posted by Ben on August 17, 2010 in Floyd Reports · Comments (196)

by Ben Johnson, Floyd Reports

Congressman Darrell Issa (R-CA) has produced a shocking new report detailing the Obama administration’s extensive use of taxpayer-funded propaganda, which he says breaks federal law. The report, created for the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, details how the former Alinskyite community organizer has channeled the resources of the federal government — that is, your money — to create “a sophisticated propaganda and lobbying campaign” made up of “inappropriate and sometimes unlawful public relations and propaganda initiatives.”
...

http://republicans.oversight.house.gov/images/stories/Reports/20100816obamaadministrationpropagandareport.pdf

0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Wed 1 Sep, 2010 12:43 pm
@plainoldme,
Au contraire mon cheri, Moveon is a establishment leftwing institution.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -2  
Wed 1 Sep, 2010 02:45 pm
I BET LEFTIST LIBERALS WILL LOVE THIS:
Quote:
For the first time in history, an American president has filed a complaint with U.N., against America.

What American President Would Do That?
By Carol A. Taber for AMERICAN THINKER, Sept. 01, 2010

Other presidents have been wrong. Other presidents have been misguided. Other presidents have been weak and pusillanimous and pathetic.

Only one truly disdains America. His name is Barack Obama.

How else to explain his latest outrage against the country that elevated him to the ranks of world leadership? Last week, the Obama State Department submitted a report to the U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights on the supposed human rights violations taking place in the United States.
According to the Washington Times, the report describes how the United States 'discriminates against the disabled, homosexuals, women, Native Americans, blacks, Hispanics and those who don't speak English.' There is the expected pandering to Muslims...the report notes that 'until recently, the U.S. engaged in torture, unlawfully detained terrorist suspects, and illegally spied on Americans communicating with terrorists' ... but the report assures readers that Mr. Obama has been putting a stop to all that.

Beyond the outrage felt by Governor Jan Brewer, whose move to protect Arizonans' human rights was offered up as an example of an abuse of human rights by Mr. Obama's State Department report (gotta protect those drug cartel murderers!), for many citizens, this report is a rank anti-American manifesto and the last straw. Many believe it to be outright evil, that there is no other word to encompass Obama's disgraceful and indefensible decision. This odious report has placed America -- all of us -- on a list of human rights violators that includes Iran, North Korea, and Sudan. And Mr. Obama and his administration have done it purposefully, intentionally, and with malice aforethought.

The truth, on the other hand, is that every demographic group mentioned in the report as victimized by America is better off in America than in any other country on earth. That's why they stay here. If they don't like America, they're free to leave at any time. We're not the Soviet Union or China, restricting population flow. European glories are only a plane ticket away.

But they don't leave. That's because the people of America have a higher standard of living, more opportunity for high-quality health care (at least for a little while longer), a better shot at a decent education, and more personal freedom to pursue occupations of their choice -- and life, liberty, and happiness -- than in any other place on the planet.

But according to Obama, splinter groups of Americans (including women, who compose a majority of the population) are hapless and defenseless victims of our "downright mean" country, a description coined by Mrs. Obama during Mr. Obama's campaign for president. The State Department report is a typical liberal look-at-America-through-a-toilet-seat perspective, construing every minor problem as systemic and considering all forms of law enforcement discriminatory. The report is unseemly and deeply offensive to the American people.

Worse, it's not just Obama and his thumb-sucking minions whining about America to other Americans -- at least that wouldn't be purveying false notions about America outside our borders. No, lying to Americans about the cruelty of their country isn't enough for Obama -- he must preach it to the world. Because in Obama's worldview, the world is the ultimate arbiter of America, even though that quaint document, our Constitution, specifically grants such responsibility to the American people alone.

It's nonsensical from a legal point of view, and Obama is a lawyer. One of the chief notions in legal academia is that a judge's political perspective shapes his decisions, no matter how hard he attempts to be objective. The same holds true for countries -- Iran will judge us through the Iranian anti-Semitic, anti-American, anti-freedom, fundamentalist Islamic perspective it uses for everything else. Yet Obama inexplicably sees the judgment of countries like Iran as important and wants to lay bare before the world each of our minute flaws -- some real, some imagined -- for careful examination and exploitation by our most implacable enemies, with much of that exploitation dangerous to our national security and to ordinary Americans.

Perhaps it's because Obama has spent most of his life in a Christian country that he doesn't understand how the world works -- over here, we don't cast the first stone. Instead, we target the most egregious human rights violators and try to curb their violations. Maybe Obama thinks the rest of the world will act in truly Christian fashion, too, and focus on the true human rights violators even if we expose ourselves to the tyrants, dictators, and mullahs. That would make him an idiot.

More likely, Obama just doesn't give a tinker's damn whether the world flays us because he thinks America's minor flaws are major ones. It is possible that Obama dislikes America because this is the country that produced his rootless life and gave leeway to his drunk, child-abandoning Kenyan father. More likely, Obama is displeased with this country because he spent his childhood wandering from identity to identity until he found one that justified his alienation -- identity as a Marxist racialist -- an elevated identity in the left's hierarchy of the victimized.

Whatever the reason, Obama has no soft spot for America. The unpresidential condescension he feels for our country and its religion- and gun-clinging citizens oozes from his pores and spills out of them in unguarded moments. And that disrespect -- the kind that comes only from those who are clueless about leadership -- gives both aid and comfort to our enemies and leaves those who wish to share in the bounty of our freedom and liberty in the dark.

What American president would do that?

Carol A. Taber is president of www.FamilySecurityMatters.org

Page Printed from: http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/09/what_american_president_would.html at September 01, 2010 - 12:33:41 PM CDT


Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Wed 1 Sep, 2010 03:59 pm
@ican711nm,
I do love this, because it's the truth. And no matter how breathless your idiotic correspondent or yourself get, you should do some background:

http://www.thenation.com/article/154445/us-profile-human-rights-grows-united-nations

Quote:
The administration was responding to a requirement of the four-year-old Human Rights Council that every member of the UN must submit to a review of its human rights practices and obligations under national and international agreements once every four years. The process, called the universal periodic review—known in UN shorthand as the UPR—gives each national government the chance to review itself first, to which the assessments of outsiders are later added. The twenty-nine-page report, prepared by the State Department and submitted on August 20 to Navi Pillay, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, contains a sweeping overview of diverse current American human rights issues from immigration to housing and healthcare.


It is a required element of being part of a Council that we promoted and helped set up, Ican. What did you want us to do? Put forth a report saying that everything is just hunky-dory here in the US and everyone else should just look the other way?

You need to face up to the reality that we can admit that the US has some problems while still celebrating the fact that it is a great place. It's not a weakness to admit that we are working on issues, it's a strength.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Wed 1 Sep, 2010 04:01 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:
There is the expected pandering to Muslims...the report notes that 'until recently, the U.S. engaged in torture, TRUE unlawfully detained terrorist suspects, TRUEand illegally spied on Americans TRUE communicating with terrorists' POSSIBLY TRUE... but the report assures readers that Mr. Obama has been putting a stop to all that.NOT CONFIRMED YET BUT HE SAID HE WOULD PUT A STOP TO THAT AND BEING HONEST ABOUT IT IS CERTAINLY A GOOD PLACE TO START


How could anyone with half a brain construe being honest and seeking to correct past abusive illegal actions as "pandering to Muslims"? Has she ever heard of the "rule of law"?

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Wed 1 Sep, 2010 04:04 pm
@ican711nm,
Who's the dickhead who gave Ican a minus for posting exactly what he is supposed to be able to post?

Good! someone clicked the minus away. [twarn't me]

This plus/minus stuff really is exceedingly childish.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Wed 1 Sep, 2010 04:33 pm
I've been away from this forum for a few days, but a fairly quick review of the past 3 or 4 pages reveals pretty much the same old nonsensical stuff from libs.

Among the things that caught my eye, I think this is accurate, JTT continuing to talk about Bush war crimes and some defending Obama for reporting nonsense to the U.N., pretty much proving the man has no love for his own country, just as conservatives have been saying until they are blue in the face. After all, for some people to get it, do we have to keep pointing out the man has friends and heros like Wright that regularly ranted hatred about Jews and rich white people, and commie friend Ayers that tried to overthrow the United States government and blow up the Pentagon? Are libs going to keep arguing that it all meant nothing?

We also have I think cyclops and pom trying to claim Moveon.org is some kind of mainstream grassroots organization, while saying the Tea Party movement is not. I know that is nonsense because you could see local people, average citizens, business owners, decent tax paying citizens, that had never participated in any public demonstration of any kind, I saw them standing on the street corner in town and at the park waving signs and giving inspirational speeches, and we know similar has gone on all over the country. The people were not bussed in and paid like a "rent-a-mob," so commonly done by liberals and Democrats do. If ever there was any kind of phenomena that could be legitimately grass-roots, the Tea Party movement is it. Certainly not Move-on.org and similar radical groups funded by folks like the radical Socialist George Soros.

Anyway, my apologies to folks like cyclops and pom to be away for two or three days, so that your favorite punching bag was not available during that time. pom, I hope your mental health does not depend upon having someone available that you can regularly call a liar, idiot, stupid, and as having no English proficiency and not knowing how to write intelligently?

One last comment, it seems from ci's posts that just maybe he is beginning to lose faith in Obama and the Democrats and is beginning to have some favor towards Republicans and conservative views. I could be wrong, but I hope I am right, please let it be right, ci? I believe that I remember ci has told me in the past that he used to be conservative and that many of his relatives remain conservative, so perhaps it is not beyond the realm of possibility that cicerone imposter could come to his senses and return to his roots? I certainly hope so.
 

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