old europe
 
  2  
Wed 28 Jul, 2010 10:34 am
@okie,
okie wrote:
I don't believe it, not based upon some questionable and possibly fictitious internet page.

Colour me surprised.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Wed 28 Jul, 2010 10:51 am
@okie,
Quote:
ican, there are a few red flags with this Martin Brech essay, supposedly detailing atrocities against Germans. See my previous posts on this. Also, I have not mentioned it yet, but I have in fact a relative, past 90 now, that was part of the allied forces entering Germany, and none of this matches anything he has ever told about it, nothing whatsoever. Count me a skeptic about this Brech essay until we have more evidence for its accuracy.


And you somehow happened to miss the book review of Other Losses, Okie. How convenient?

Quote:
Bacque, who is not an academic historian, has embarrassed the Establishment here. His book reflects the low state of academic and officer government history in this country. Anfl the fact that he can't find a U.S. publisher is another example of how censorship works in "the land of the free and the home of the brave." His book has not been banned. Like other important works that deal with what James J. Martin characterizes as "inconvenient history," Other Losses simply has not been printed. After all, you don't have to go to the trouble of "banning" what never gets into print in the first place.

Other Losses is a fine example of historical investigation, which also serves as a reminder of what sort of country Americans really live in.

Ibid


Isn't that just like y'all? It even happens here on the pages of A2K. Reams of proof illustrating US terrorism, US mass murder, US war crimes and all there is is this immediate denial. You don't know anything about Eisenhower except for the highly sanitized dreck that you are constantly fed through the media and your school system.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eei1Fs3l6Kc&feature=player_embedded

0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Wed 28 Jul, 2010 10:51 am
@okie,
Okie,
My brother--now deceased--served in Britain during WWII. He toured the Nazis concentration camps after the end of the war. He personally verified the horrors perpetrated there by the Nazis.

He also told me about war crimes committed by some Americans during the war. He said he was amazed there were not a great many more such crimes because of the crimes committed against prisoners of war--Americans and all the others--held by the Nazis.

Okie, of course, we both know how the Obama Democrats continue to ignore the huge number of terrible atrocities perpetrated by our enemies, while attacking Americans for the relatively small number of atrocities committed by Americans.

Oh, shame, shame, shame on Americans. We are far from perfect! The lying, thieving Obama Democrats are one reason we are far from perfect.
ican711nm
 
  -2  
Wed 28 Jul, 2010 11:06 am
Quote:
Grassfire Nation Special Report:
KaganGate
July 27, 2010
+++++++++++++++

We now know that Elena Kagan corrupted a scientific finding that was presented before the Supreme Court. Her corruption caused the Supreme Court to rely on faulty science and extend the brutal practice of partial-birth abortion for many years.

Kagan's corruption of evidence exposes her as a far-left political activist whom former Surgeon General C. Everett Koop says is unfit for the Supreme Court.

And we have the proof -- her HAND-WRITTEN memo! (Go here to see it):

http://www.grassfire.net/r.asp?U=30301&CID=99&RID=25526000

Now, evidence is mounting that Kagan made matters worse by lying to the Judiciary Committee about her role in manipulating scientific evidence.

During the hearings, Kagan did everything in her power to avoid taking responsibility for corrupting ACOG's scientific conclusion.

When Sen. Hatch directly asked Kagan, "Did you write that memo?", Kagan first tried to avoid the question. When pressed, Kagan barely acknowledged that "the document is certainly in my handwriting," yet never admitted to being the author of the statement.

But then she proceeded with a verbal cover-up that now leaves her exposed. Kagan said:

"There was no way in which I would have or
could have intervened with ACOG... to get it
to change its medical views on the question."

This directly contradicts the fact that Kagan's own memo and hand-written note prove that she did, in fact, "propose"
language that ACOG used... verbatim!

If senators would have the courage to consider the evidence, they will quickly see all the elements of a full-fledged "KaganGate" -- a conspiracy to manipulate scientific findings combined with a cover-up under oath.

The only way Kagan will be held accountable is if grassroots Americans rise up and demand that the fast-tracking of Elena Kagan to the Supreme Court be stopped immediately.

Again, more than 20,000 letters from Grassfire Nation team members have already been hand-delivered to the Senate.

The next scheduled hand-delivery will begin
Thursday afternoon. To be included in this
hand-delivery, we must hear from you by 9am
Thursday.

Click here for more and to schedule your letters
to be hand-delivered to your two senators and
other key senators:

http://www.grassfire.net/r.asp?U=30302&CID=99&RID=25526000

+ + Timeline of the Cover-Up

Here's the timeline, detailed by former deputy assistant attorney general Shannen Coffin in the National Review (see link at the end of this message):

1. Kagan, while working for Clinton, received a draft of
ACOG's scientific finding that was being prepared for
submission to the federal courts in a key partial-birth
abortion case.

2. ACOG's draft stated that ACOG "could identify no
circumstances under which [partial-birth abortion]. . .
would be the only option to save the life or preserve
the health of the woman."

3. Kagan noted in an internal memo that ACOG's finding "would
be a disaster" to Clinton's position to keep partial-birth
abortion legal.

4. So Kagan sent a memo to ACOG suggesting new language for
ACOG's scientific finding on partial-birth abortion.
Specifically, Kagan recommended ACOG say that partial-birth
abortion "may be the best or most appropriate procedure in
a particular circumstance to save the life or preserve
the health of a woman." Kagan's note totally warped the
meaning of ACOG's original statement.

5. This statement -- hand-written on the memo by Kagan --
was included word-for-word in ACOG's final submission to
the courts. The courts then relied upon ACOG's supposed
science, with no knowledge that a Clinton political
operative named Elena Kagan had corrupted the entire
process.

6. Because Elena Kagan corrupted evidence before the
Supreme Court, the horrendous partial-birth abortion
procedure remained legal for years -- and our legal
process all the way up to the Supreme Court was tarnished.

7. And just this month, Kagan attempted to cover up her role
in the evidence tampering conspiracy during the Judiciary
Committee hearings.

But some claim Elena Kagan is such a nice lady!
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Wed 28 Jul, 2010 11:11 am
@okie,
Quote:
Remember, this all started here in an effort to demonize Dwight D. Eisenhower, whose quality of character we already know, and I doubt very seriously he would have sanctioned such stuff, no I don't believe it, not based upon some questionable and possibly fictitious internet page.



Quote:

Eisenhower’s Death Camps After WWII

One month before the end of World War II, General Eisenhower issued special orders concerning the treatment of German Prisoners and specific in the language of those orders was this statement,
“Prison enclosures are to provide no shelter or other comforts.”

Eisenhower biographer Stephen Ambrose, who was given access to the Eisenhower personal letters, states that he proposed to exterminate the entire German General Staff… thousands of people, AFTER the war.

Eisenhower, in his personal letters, did not merely hate the Nazi Regime, and the few who imposed its will down from the top, but that HE HATED THE GERMAN PEOPLE AS A RACE. It was his personal intent to destroy as many of them as he could, and one way was to wipe out as many prisoners of war as possible.

Of course, that was illegal under International law, so he issued an order on March 10, 1945 and verified by his initials on a cable of that date, that German Prisoners of War be predesignated as “Disarmed Enemy Forces” called in these reports as DEF.
He ordered that these Germans did not fall under the Geneva Rules, and were not to be fed or nor given any water or medical attention. The Swiss Red Cross was not to inspect the camps, for under the DEF classification, they had no such authority or jurisdiction.

Months after the war was officially over, Eisenhower’s special German DEF camps were still in operation forcing the men into confinement, but denying that they were prisoners.

[...]
The book, OTHER LOSSES by James Bacque, found its way into the hands of a Canadian news reporter Peter Worthington of the [TORONTO] SUN. He did his own research through contacts he had in Canada, and reported in his column on September 12,1989 the following in part:
“…it is hard to escape the conclusion that Dwight Eisenhower was a war criminal of epic proportions. His (DEF) policy killed more Germans in peace than were killed in the European Theater.”

“For years we have blamed the 1.7 million missing German POW’s on the Russians. Until now, no one dug too deeply … Witnesses and survivors have been interviewed by the author; one Allied officer compared the American camps to Buchenwald.”

It is known, that the Allies had sufficient stockpiles of food and medicine to care for these German soldiers. This was deliberately and intentionally denied them. Many men died of gangrene from frostbite due to deliberate exposure. Local German people who offered these men food, were denied. General Patton’s Third Army was the only command in the European Theater to release significant numbers of Germans.

[...]
Col. James Mason and Col. Charles Beasley who were in the U.S. Army Medical Corps who published a paper on the Eisenhower Death Camps in 1950. They stated in part:

“Huddled close together for warmth, behind the barbed wire was a most awesome sight; nearly 100,000 haggard, apathetic, dirty, gaunt, blank-staring men clad in dirty gray uniforms, and standing ankle deep in mud … water was a major problem, yet only 200 yards away the River Rhine was running bank-full.”

http://elliotlakenews.wordpress.com/2007/01/04/eisenhowers-death-camps-after-wwii/
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Wed 28 Jul, 2010 12:50 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:
My brother--now deceased--served in Britain during WWII.


Quote:
Okie: Also, I have not mentioned it yet, but I have in fact a relative, past 90 now, that was part of the allied forces entering Germany, and none of this matches anything he has ever told about it, nothing whatsoever.


These family reunions are really sweet, guys, but these sorts of anecdotes are coming from other Okies/Icans.

I doubt that you two were even able to read thru the material. Your minds shut down and it's back to diversion. Had you read, you'd have noticed US medical personnel who were there, who witnessed it and wrote about it.

Why would Martin Brech, Adjunct Professor of Philosophy and Religion, a Masters of Theology, after a lifetime of studying and teaching in these areas concoct a story about Eisenhower? As I said, diversions.

The truth, she can sometimes be mighty painful.

Quote:
I realize it’s difficult for the average citizen to admit witnessing a crime of this magnitude, especially if implicated himself. Even G.I.s sympathetic to the victims were afraid to complain and get into trouble, they told me. And the danger has not ceased. Since I spoke out a few weeks ago, I have received threatening calls and had my mailbox smashed. But its been worth it. Writing about these atrocities has been a catharsis of feelings suppressed too long, a liberation, that perhaps will remind other witnesses that “the truth will make us free, have no fear.” We may even learn a supreme lesson from all this: only love can conquer all.



MontereyJack
 
  2  
Wed 28 Jul, 2010 12:53 pm
gee, ican, looks to me like ACOG (American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists) completely disagrees with that silly Grassfire ultra-right-wing screed, and the apparent mischaracterization of the evidence which you posted. As they said, AFTER 2003, when Kagan was no longer an advisor to Clinton and had no possible influence on them:
Quote:
ACOG Statement on the US Supreme Court Decision Upholding the
Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003


Washington, DC -- Despite the fact that the safety advantages of intact dilatation and evacuation (intact D&E) procedures are widely recognized—in medical texts, peer-reviewed studies, clinical practice, and in mainstream, medical care in the United States—the US Supreme Court today upheld the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003.

According to the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists' (ACOG) amicus brief opposing the Ban, the Act will chill doctors from providing a wide range of procedures used to perform induced abortions or to treat cases of miscarriage and will gravely endanger the health of women in this country.

"Today's decision to uphold the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003 is shameful and incomprehensible to those of us who have dedicated our lives to caring for women," said Douglas W. Laube, MD, MEd, ACOG president. "It leaves no doubt that women's health in America is perceived as being of little consequence.

"We have seen a steady erosion of women's reproductive rights in this country. The Supreme Court's action today, though stunning, in many ways isn't surprising given the current culture in which scientific knowledge frequently takes a back seat to subjective opinion," he added.
This decision discounts and disregards the medical consensus that intact D&E is safest and offers significant benefits for women suffering from certain conditions that make the potential complications of non-intact D&E especially dangerous. Moreover, it diminishes the doctor-patient relationship by preventing physicians from using their clinical experience and judgment.

"On behalf of the 51,000 ACOG members who strive to provide the very best possible medical care to the women we serve, I can only hope that in the future, science will again be at the core of decision-making that affects the life and well-being of all of us," said Dr. Laube.



"Kagangate" is an example of right-wing trollism, just another of the endless multitudes you cut-and-paste.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Wed 28 Jul, 2010 02:50 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:
He also told me about war crimes committed by some Americans during the war. He said he was amazed there were not a great many more such crimes because of the crimes committed against prisoners of war--Americans and all the others--held by the Nazis.


Is it possible that his view was jaundiced? The record indicates that the Nazi death camps had a higher calorie diet than that provided under Ike's direction to POWs. Note also his changing the designation of POWs status so that he could more readily hide his crimes.

Regardless, Ican, the "that gangster has murdered more people than that gangster" argument is really vacuous.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Wed 28 Jul, 2010 05:45 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:
These family reunions are really sweet, guys, but these sorts of anecdotes are coming from other Okies/Icans.

I doubt that you two were even able to read thru the material. Your minds shut down and it's back to diversion. Had you read, you'd have noticed US medical personnel who were there, who witnessed it and wrote about it.

Why would Martin Brech, Adjunct Professor of Philosophy and Religion, a Masters of Theology, after a lifetime of studying and teaching in these areas concoct a story about Eisenhower? As I said, diversions.

The truth, she can sometimes be mighty painful.

Some points need being made here. First of all, I know my relatives very well and I am confident of their honesty. Secondly, this person going by the name Martin Brech with a story on some web page, I have been unsuccessful in even verifying anyone by the name of Martin Brech even was a real person, and a professor as claimed, and if so whether he served in the war. I need proof that the web page is based upon reality. There are people around out there trying to deny the holocaust even happened, and so I think there will also be people out there claiming the Germans were mistreated as well, to try to make the Germans look better in history. So, yes, there are lots of people that will concoct stories and place them on the internet, and when we get stories like this, we need a way to verify it.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Wed 28 Jul, 2010 05:50 pm
Here's a look at the cream of the conservative crop, rising to defend America against liberalism:

http://politics.freesitenow.com/basilmarceauxforgovernor/
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 28 Jul, 2010 05:51 pm
@plainoldme,
pom, Did you hear about the latest GOP action in congress? They defeated funding our schools.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Wed 28 Jul, 2010 05:57 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I didn't hear that. I spent the day in the Berkshires, seeing The Comedy of Errors and stopping to have lemonade on the porch of the Red Lion Inn in Stockbridge as I thought about James Taylor and Arlo Guthrie. Radio reception was poor.

But, that is just like the Republicans. Unschooled or poorly schooled voters are more likely to support the Repubs.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 28 Jul, 2010 05:59 pm
@plainoldme,
It's really not about education; the GOP is good at using fear as their primary motivator.
plainoldme
 
  1  
Wed 28 Jul, 2010 06:03 pm
@cicerone imposter,
They like fear.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Wed 28 Jul, 2010 07:41 pm
Here ya go, okie, Brech seems to be real and an ex-professor, and of the right age to have been 18 at the end of WWII

http://www.nytimes.com/1995/07/16/nyregion/stone-chambers-silent-on-their-makers.html?pagewanted=all
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Wed 28 Jul, 2010 08:13 pm
@snood,
I was reading back over a conversation snood, habibi and I were having about the viability of a black presidential candidate. Snood was sure Obama couldn't get elected by a racist American populace - nimh cited the previous and current dearth of elected blacks as a sign that Obama's election was quite unlikely - and I thought that previous patterns had nothing to do with America's readiness to elect a black president in 2008.

Other than proving America's readiness to elect a black president - was any of that other stuff proven as well?
JTT
 
  2  
Wed 28 Jul, 2010 08:16 pm
@okie,
Quote:
First of all, I know my relatives very well and I am confident of their honesty.


That leaves us with two scenarios, they aren't aware, like most Americans or you don't know them as well as you think. You probably believe yourself to be an honest person and yet, all there has ever been from you is denial, denial denial. How does that equate with honesty?

There's been no fessing up, there has been none, that's zero, of that much vaunted personal responsibility crap that Repubs are supposed to famous for. It's all just, no way, America's great great great, blah blah blah, ... .

Quote:


Col. James Mason and Col. Charles Beasley who were in the U.S. Army Medical Corps who published a paper on the Eisenhower Death Camps in 1950. They stated in part:

“Huddled close together for warmth, behind the barbed wire was a most awesome sight; nearly 100,000 haggard, apathetic, dirty, gaunt, blank-staring men clad in dirty gray uniforms, and standing ankle deep in mud … water was a major problem, yet only 200 yards away the River Rhine was running bank-full.”

http://elliotlakenews.wordpress.com/2007/01/04/eisenhowers-death-camps-after-wwii/


As I said, Okie, honesty.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Wed 28 Jul, 2010 08:21 pm
@Lash,
We'll never know, Lash, but had the Repub pres not been a monumental failure, with a new set of twins that looked to be as bad or worse, McCain & Palin, [somebody please tell me that was a bad dream; Palin wasn't really the vp candidate, was she?] I think that there's a good chance that Obama wouldn't have made it.
Lash
 
  1  
Wed 28 Jul, 2010 09:00 pm
@JTT,
She HAS seemingly disappeared...
JTT
 
  1  
Wed 28 Jul, 2010 09:02 pm
@Lash,
I heard the other day that she admitted that she doesn't have the constitution to be prez; that's also why she quit the gov job early.

And she would have been, allowing for the impossible, one death away from the presidency. Jaysus, what a thought!!
0 Replies
 
 

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