ican711nm
 
  1  
Sat 27 Mar, 2010 07:35 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed31.asp
Hamilton: No 31

A government ought to contain in itself every power requisite to the full accomplishment of the objects committed to its care, and to the complete execution of the trusts for which it is responsible, free from every other control but a regard to the public good and to the sense of the people.

As the duties of superintending the national defense and of securing the public peace against foreign or domestic violence involve a provision for casualties and dangers to which no possible limits can be assigned, the power of making that provision ought to know no other bounds than the exigencies of the nation and the resources of the community.

As revenue is the essential engine by which the means of answering the national exigencies must be procured, the power of procuring that article in its full extent must necessarily be comprehended in that of providing for those exigencies.

As theory and practice conspire to prove that the power of procuring revenue is unavailing when exercised over the States in their collective capacities, the federal government must of necessity be invested with an unqualified power of taxation in the ordinary modes.

0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Sun 28 Mar, 2010 10:49 am
Flash! President Obama landed minutes ago in Kabul (Bagram Air base) in Afghanistan.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Sun 28 Mar, 2010 11:01 am
@realjohnboy,
Shrub really started something with his stealth visits to war zones.....it is a manly-man move, intended to enhance his testosterone street cred.
Irishk
 
  2  
Sun 28 Mar, 2010 11:08 am
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

Quote:

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed36.asp
Hamilton No. 36
Let it be recollected that the proportion of these taxes is not to be left to the discretion of the national legislature, but is to be determined by the numbers of each State, as described in the second section of the first article. An actual census or enumeration of the people must furnish the rule, a circumstance which effectually shuts the door to partiality or oppression. The abuse of this power of taxation seems to have been provided against with guarded circumspection. In addition to the precaution just mentioned, there is a provision that "all duties, imposts, and excises shall be UNIFORM throughout the United States.''


If it's not 'uniform', i.e. a certain segment of Congress is exempt from the new HC mandate, then wouldn't it be considered a punitive tax?

Edit to clarify: It would be punitive to those not exempt.
ican711nm
 
  -3  
Sun 28 Mar, 2010 11:58 am
@Irishk,
The question for today is: Does "uniform throughout the United States" mean the tax rate on a taxed object such as dollars of income shall be uniformly non-uniform; or does it mean shall be the same tax rate on each and every such object such as dollars of income?

You decide!
Quote:

http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/unabridged?va=uniform&x=22&y=9
Main Entry: 1uni·form
...
1 : marked by lack of variation, diversity, change in form, manner, worth, or degree : showing a single form, degree, or character in all occurrences or manifestations <the Shasta dam ... will keep the flow of the Sacramento relatively uniform throughout the year -- American Guide Series: California> <Great Russian itself has dialects, though generally speaking for so widespread a language it is remarkably uniform -- W.J.Entwhistle & W.A.Morison>
2 : marked by complete conformity to a rule or pattern or by similarity in salient detail or practice : CONSONANT, ALIKE <how far churches are bound to be uniform in their ceremonies -- Richard Hooker>
3 : marked by unvaried and changeless appearance (as of surface, color, or pattern) <so many uniform red hills -- Willa Cather>
4 : consistent in conduct, character, or effect : lacking in variation, deviation, or unequal or dissimilar operation <the constitution has conferred on Congress the right to establish a uniform rule of naturalization -- R.B.Taney>
synonym see LIKE, STEADY
0 Replies
 
MASSAGAT
 
  -3  
Sun 28 Mar, 2010 05:26 pm
@hawkeye10,
Why do you attempt to denigrate our President, hawkeye10? You know he has testosterone! Why, don't you remember that Jet Stream Jesse was overheard --



The Rev. Jesse Jackson apologized Wednesday for making a crude comment about Barack Obama that exposed the veteran civil rights leader’s unhappiness with the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee…

“Barack, he’s talking down to black people,” the civil rights leader whispered to another guest [on a Fox News show], healthcare executive Reid Tuckson. Jackson was unaware that his microphone was on.

“I want to cut his nuts off,” Jackson said, making a jabbing gesture with his hand.
_______________________________________________

This, must mean, of course, Hawkeye, that the President has "nuts" or Jackson would not want to cut them off.

However, it does not prove he has ample "Testosterone". I think he still has to prove that since he has not, as far as I am aware, served in our military. He may still be trying to deflect the criticism that he received by regularly attending services of the Reverend Wright at the President 's Church in Chicago where it is documented that the Reverend included in his sermons the very unpatriotic comment--"G.. D...America".
spendius
 
  1  
Sun 28 Mar, 2010 05:38 pm
@MASSAGAT,
Mr Obama seems to have had a very good week. Even I will admit that.
okie
 
  -1  
Sun 28 Mar, 2010 07:34 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Mr Obama seems to have had a very good week. Even I will admit that.

Hey spendius, interesting statement. If the local burglar was able to pull off a dozen burglaries and not get caught, I suppose you might also say that burglar had a good week? But what about the week of the local residents, the victims of his burglaries? And what about the citizens of the United States, did we have a good week? And which is more important, Obama's week, or the week the rest of us had?
okie
 
  -1  
Sun 28 Mar, 2010 08:04 pm
"While many if official Washington consider the Tea Party movement to be a fringe element of society, voters across the nation feel closer to the Tea Party than to Congress. Voters also tend to see the Tea Party Members as better informed and more ethical than Congress."

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
parados
 
  3  
Sun 28 Mar, 2010 08:18 pm
@okie,
Would you look at okie.. calling the President a criminal...
Great patriotism there okie. Do you criticize yourself for your statements?
parados
 
  2  
Sun 28 Mar, 2010 08:20 pm
@okie,
Quote:
If the Tea Party was organized as a political party, 34% of voters would prefer a Democrat in a three-way congressional race. In that hypothetical match-up, the Republican gets 27% of the vote with the Tea Party hopeful in third at 21%.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  -1  
Sun 28 Mar, 2010 08:25 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:

Would you look at okie.. calling the President a criminal...
Great patriotism there okie. Do you criticize yourself for your statements?

Please provide evidence that I called the president a criminal. As usual, you won't because you can't.
MASSAGAT
 
  -1  
Mon 29 Mar, 2010 12:19 am
@spendius,
How, sir? A good week in the political arena can only, in my estimation, be measured by increasing popular esteem.

Of course, you expect the irrational left wing types like Carville, Axelrod, Reid, Pelosi, etc. to crow like roosters--but go to the data.

The disapprove column on Real Clear Politics has never been higher. And I hope you will note that Gallup has a 46% Approve and a 46% disapprove just recently.

The 46% disapprove is the highest disapproval number Obama has ever had. The "bounce" predicted for him because of his signing of the Obamacare bill lasted about 24 hours. This is in part because the American people have read the reports on Obamacare and realize that the greater part of the plan will not take effect until 2015. By that time, with the help of God and clear thinking Americans, Obama will no longer be President and the Republicans can make great inroads with their --Repeal and Replace program.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  -1  
Mon 29 Mar, 2010 12:30 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

"While many if official Washington consider the Tea Party movement to be a fringe element of society, voters across the nation feel closer to the Tea Party than to Congress. Voters also tend to see the Tea Party Members as better informed and more ethical than Congress."

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
MASSAGAT
 
  -1  
Mon 29 Mar, 2010 12:31 am
@okie,
Of course, he won't Okie. His confusion is quite evident. He would be thrown out of any court by the presiding judge in short order because he is completely illogical.
I read your posts and cannot find where you called Barack Hussein Obama a criminal. However, I must tell you that there are people on the internet who have called Obama a liar. I do not agree with that statement since there are certain conditions required to be a real liar. But some people, even hard core Democrats, have called him disengenuous. Note:



Monday, March 3, 2008
Barack Obama is Disingenuous

Something has been bothering me about the spectacular rise of freshmen Illinois Senator Barack Obama for a while, and I just couldn't put my finger on it. It might have something to do with the sycophantic fawning of the media, perhaps; it may also have had something to do with how so many of my friends and fellow Democrats were jumping on the bandwagon, seemingly without any critical thought.

I finally figured it out when this story about Obama's position on NAFTA broke;

Barack Obama's senior economic policy adviser privately told Canadian officials to view the debate in Ohio over trade as "political positioning," according to a memo obtained by The Associated Press that was rejected by the adviser and held up Monday as evidence of doublespeak by rival Hillary Rodham Clinton.

The memo is the first documentation to emerge publicly out of the meeting between the adviser, Austan Goolsbee, and officials with the Canadian consulate in Chicago, but Goolsbee said it misinterprets what he told them. The memo was written by Joseph DeMora, who works for the consulate and attended the meeting.

"Noting anxiety among many U.S. domestic audiences about the U.S. economic outlook, Goolsbee candidly acknowledged the protectionist sentiment that has emerged, particularly in the Midwest, during the primary campaign," the memo said. "He cautioned that this messaging should not be taken out of context and should be viewed as more about political positioning than a clear articulation of policy plan.
So either the adviser is telling the truth, and he misled our Canadian neighbors over Obama's position on perhaps the single most important current treaty between our nations, or he's lying and the campaign really did represent to another nation that they were bullshitting the American public to score points off of Hillary Clinton. The only other option is that the Canadians in this meeting are lying in the memo in an attempt to discredit Obama, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense considering they may very well have to deal with this guy as President of the United States before too long.

This is, of course, going on while the Senator is representing his position on NAFTA like this during the Ohio debates (warning, long quote... emphasis mine);


MR. WILLIAMS: Senator, thank you.

Before we turn the questioning over to Tim Russert, Senator Obama.

SEN. OBAMA: Well, I think that it is inaccurate for Senator Clinton to say that she's always opposed NAFTA. In her campaign for Senate, she said that NAFTA, on balance, had been good for New York and good for America. I disagree with that. I think that it did not have the labor standards and environmental standards that were required in order to not just be good for Wall Street but also be good for Main Street. And if you travel through Youngstown and you travel through communities in my home state of Illinois, you will see entire cities that have been devastated as a consequence of trade agreements that were not adequately structured to make sure that U.S. workers had a fair deal.

Now, I think that Senator Clinton has shifted positions on this and believes that we should have strong environmental standards and labor standards, and I think that's a good thing. But you know, when I first moved to Chicago in the early '80s and I saw steelworkers who had been laid off of their plants -- black, white, and Hispanic -- and I worked on the streets of Chicago to try to help them find jobs, I saw then that the net costs of many of these trade agreements, if they're not properly structured, can be devastating.

And as president of the United States, I intend to make certain that every agreement that we sign has the labor standards, the environmental standards and the safety standards that are going to protect not just workers, but also consumers. We can't have toys with lead paint in them that our children are playing with. We can't have medicines that are actually making people more sick instead of better because they're produced overseas. We have to stop providing tax breaks for companies that are shipping jobs overseas and give those tax breaks to companies that are investing here in the United States of America.

And if we do those things, then I believe that we can actually get Ohio back on the path of growth and jobs and prosperity. If we don't, then we're going to continue to see the kind of deterioration that we've seen economically here in this state.


So if the Canadians aren't lying, and I really don't see any reason why they would, then all this was just fluff intended to endear Obama with those that stand against NAFTA, all the while scoring dishonest points against Senator Clinton. This really disturbed me when I went back and read Obama's comments- the last thing I want is a another disingenuous president, regardless what party they come from.

This incident alone wouldn't make me feel that perhaps Obama is not nearly as honest and forthright as he and his surrogates make out. There was also this from NBC's Meet the Press November 7th, 2004, shortly after winning his freshmen Senate seat;
MR. RUSSERT: Before you go, you know there's been enormous speculation about your political future. Will you serve your full six-year term as U.S. senator from Illinois?
SEN.-ELECT OBAMA: Absolutely. You know, a little--some of this hype's been a little overblown. It's flattering, but I have to remind people that I haven't been sworn in yet. I don't know where the rest rooms are in the Senate. I'm going to have to figure out how to work the phones, answer constituent mail. I expect to be in the Senate for quite some time, and hopefully I'll build up my seniority from my current position, which I believe is 99th out of 100.


I watch all the Sunday shows, and I distinctly remember this- I also remember Obama coming back on the show to try and un-say these words less than two years later on October 22nd, 2006;
MR. RUSSERT: But, but"so you will not run for president or vice president in 2008?
SEN. OBAMA: I will not.

(End videotape)

MR. RUSSERT: You will not.

SEN. OBAMA: Well, the"that was how I was thinking at that time. And, and, you know, I don’t want to be coy about this, given the responses that I’ve been getting over the last several months, I have thought about the possibility. But I have not thought it"about it with the seriousness and depth that I think is required. My main focus right now is in the ‘06 and making sure that we retake the Congress. After oh"after November 7, I’ll sit down and, and consider, and if at some point, I change my mind, I will make a public announcement and everybody will be able to go at me.

MR. RUSSERT: But it’s fair to say you’re thinking about running for president in 2008?

SEN. OBAMA: It’s fair, yes.

MR. RUSSERT: And so when you said to me in January, “I will not,” that statement is no longer operative.

SEN. OBAMA: The"I would say that I am still at the point where I have not made a decision to, to pursue higher office, but it is true that I have thought about it over the last several months.

MR. RUSSERT: So, it sounds as if the door has opened a bit.

SEN. OBAMA: A bit.

And then there was Obama's confusing statements on public financing;
A year ago, both McCain and Obama indicated that they would accept public financing for the general election if the other party's nominee did as well.
But Obama, whose fundraising has brought in record amounts of primary money, has hedged that position over the past week, giving McCain openings to pounce.

Last week, Obama said it would be "presumptuous of me to say now that I'm locking myself into something when I don't even know if the other side is going to agree to it."

McCain gave Clinton a pass on the issue, given that she never indicated she would forgo public financing.

Now I know saying these kinds of things is going to rile a lot of folks up- most of the Obama supporters I know are deeply emotional about their chosen candidate. So emotional, it seems perhaps they are making their decisions based on how they feel about the guy rather than substantial policy positions. I saw similar behavior out of the supporters of another couple of candidates in recent history- Ron Paulites and Bush supporters also get very agitated when their political "faith" is questioned. Either way it disturbs me that so many people are getting romanced right out of their reasoning.

The long and short here is we Democrats feel that taking the White House in 2008 is essential to the health and prosperity of our nation. Is it really the best idea to nominate an unknown quantity like Barack Obama, especially when he is continually dropping contradictory statements like those above? I've never declared any serious support on this blog for Hillary Clinton per se, but at least she is a known quantity with years of fulfilling promises under her belt.

As a hardcore Democrat, I just can't offer my support for Senator Barack Obama. We have to much to lose to bet all our chips on an unsure thing, especially if the only reason the party is swooning for the guy is his pretty speeches and inspirational rhetoric, which as we saw above can occasionally be described by any rational person as disingenuous.
0 Replies
 
MASSAGAT
 
  0  
Mon 29 Mar, 2010 12:43 am
Parados wrote:

@ican711nm,

If only I read the Federalist papers, then I could be as smart as you? (Who based on your arguments clearly hasn't read them.)

And then, Ican quotes from the Federalist Papers showing that Parados is, again and as usual, egregiously mistaken. Parados, however, is the one who does not understand the Federalist Papers. One of the basic ideas repeated over and over in the essays is the concept contained in the Tenth Amendment-

The powers NOT delegated to the United States by the Constitution, NOR prohibited to it by the States. ARE RESERVED TO THE STATES RESPECTIVELY OR TO THE PEOPLE!
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Mon 29 Mar, 2010 08:09 am
Quote:
From The Sunday Times March 28, 2010

Barack Obama just won’t stop until the US turns into Europe byIrwin Stelzer:

The fiscal train wreck is happening sooner than we thought, a leading bond-market trader says. The passage of the healthcare bill has focused investor attention on the runaway deficit. The deficit, which was about 3% of GDP in President George Bush’s final year, is now exceeding 10%. (All numbers rounded and all data taken from the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office.) Government debt has gone from 40% of GDP when Bush left the White House to 63% and will hit 90% by 2020. That’s the level at which new studies show that debt begins to reduce growth and jobs.

Unfortunately, the situation is even worse than reported figures suggest. For one thing, the accounting tricks used to get the healthcare bill through Congress made it seem a deficit-reducer. It isn’t.

Ask this: how can the government increase the number of insured people by 30m, with half needing annual subsidies of $6,000 per family, and lower spending? Answer: it can’t. Most dispassionate observers are estimating that the new law will add $1 trillion to the nation’s $8 trillion debt, and that the government’s unfunded liabilities " its promises of future pension and other payments " come to somewhere between $60 trillion and $75 trillion over the next several decades. Even without those obligations, the government now has $14 trillion in liabilities against only $2.7 trillion in assets. Bring in the receivers.

Well, no. We are not dealing with a private-sector company, but with the American government, which differs from an ordinary company in two crucial ways: it can levy taxes, and it can print money. President Barack Obama knows that. He knows, too, that if he is to pursue his ideological commitment to “transform” America he has to ignore calls for fiscal responsibility, and such potential roadblocks as the opposition of the vast majority of the American people to his takeover of the healthcare sector, some 18% of the American economy.

His fiscal plan is to raise taxes; his political calculation is that once Americans receive the benefits of his healthcare “reforms” they will come to love them and rank him with Franklin Roosevelt in their pantheon of heroes.

If along the way several congressmen who were pressed to give him their votes lose their seats, well, c’est la guerre .

Next on the president’s list is the financial-services sector, where somewhat different reform bills have already been crafted by leaders in the House of Representatives and the Senate, and must be merged. There is little doubt that the president will get most of what he wants " more and in some instances better regulation of banks, procedures for winding down bust banks without huge taxpayer bailouts, consumer protection, control of bankers’ compensation systems. Anger at bankers’ role in creating the financial meltdown means that Congress will give the president much of what he wants. Not a bad thing.

On to energy and education, both on Obama’s “transformation” list. Congressional reluctance to give the president the cap-and-trade legislation he wants is no longer an obstacle to his plans to confront climate change. The Environmental Protection Agency already has wide powers to reduce carbon emissions, and the president has shown in the healthcare fight that voter opposition cannot deflect him from his drive to change America. He will do by rule what he cannot get from the votes of the people’s representatives.

Education reform will come next. The opponents " the teachers’ unions " might huff and puff but they are unprepared to switch their allegiance to the Republicans. And they sympathise with the president’s plan to increase minority access to advanced classes until now filled on the basis of merit.

When the transformation of America is complete the country will have been moved in the direction of the European social welfare state. Families earning more than about $250,000 (£170,000) will have their marginal income-tax rate increased from 35% to 39.4% when the Bush tax cuts are allowed to lapse, and capital gains taxes will rise from 15% to 20%. In addition, the healthcare bill levies a hospital tax of about 1% of income, and 3.8% on some portions of their incomes, including interest, dividends and short-term capital gains.

But revenues from these taxes won’t begin to make a dent in future deficits, which the Congressional Budget Office estimates will still exceed an unsustainable 5% of GDP as far ahead as 2020. Which is why the president’s commission on fiscal reform will probably recommend adoption of a European-style value-added tax (Vat).

A 3% levy would bring in $300 billion a year " $280 billion if food is exempted. Throw in inflation of about 4% a year " the number the International Monetary Fund’s economists are now recommending as a target to replace the 2% most central banks are using " and the deficit might just become manageable.

But America would have been transformed. Government will be more intrusive. The healthcare bill provides for 16,500 new tax inspectors to make sure that every American has health insurance or has paid a fine that by 2016 will come to $2,085 or 2.5% of income, whichever is higher. Emissions from not only coal plants but lawnmowers will be regulated. Standards by which schools will be judged, once set locally, will include federal rules mandating preferential treatment of minorities.

Incomes will have been redistributed. The incomes of families earning more than $250,000 and of middle-income families will be taxed more heavily to fund programmes for lower-income groups. And, if the president has his way, and persuades Congress to grant legal status to the 13m illegal immigrants now in the country, the ethnic and cultural mix of the citizenry will have been changed. That would cost about $30 billion for the healthcare entitlements of this new group but, in the great scheme of things, Obama thinks this will be a small price to pay (it is, after all, not his money) for completing the transformation of America.

Irwin Stelzer is a business adviser and director of economic policy studies at the Hudson Institute
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Mon 29 Mar, 2010 08:21 am
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Shrub really started something with his stealth visits to war zones.....it is a manly-man move, intended to enhance his testosterone street cred.

Quite right, no president before GWB ever made a surprise visit to the troops in a war zone.


http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/section/learning/general/onthisday/big/0114_big.gif

Nope, nobody ever before Bush. Not ever. Nobody. It never happened.
rosborne979
 
  1  
Mon 29 Mar, 2010 08:42 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

okie wrote:

Voters also tend to see the Tea Party Members as better informed and more ethical than Congress."


I wouldn't be surprised if voters see everybody as more ethical than Congress.

Not much has changed over the years, we just don't always remember what has gone before... "Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." - Mark Twain, a Biography
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  4  
Mon 29 Mar, 2010 08:45 am
@okie,
okie wrote:

spendius wrote:

Mr Obama seems to have had a very good week. Even I will admit that.

Hey spendius, interesting statement. If the local burglar was able to pull off a dozen burglaries and not get caught, I suppose you might also say that burglar had a good week? But what about the week of the local residents, the victims of his burglaries? And what about the citizens of the United States, did we have a good week? And which is more important, Obama's week, or the week the rest of us had?


The perpetual cry of victim-hood truly epitomizes the modern Conservative movement. Despite the fact that Conservatives tend to be affluent, white males, with disproportionate levels of power in our society (especially the business realm), they cry foul as much or more then any minority does.

What changed for you this week, Okie? What was robbed from you? Nothing at all. You're just unable to discuss the modern situation without resorting to exaggerations and hysterics.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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