Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Thu 11 Mar, 2010 02:05 pm
@ican711nm,
My views and posts are not based on the opinions of anyone but myself, or the arguments of anyone but myself. You have no evidence or logic to show that anything else is true whatsoever; so your repeated claim falls flat.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Thu 11 Mar, 2010 02:21 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:

http://www.atlassociety.org/cth-33-2286-WOE-Wonderland.aspx
Why on Earth---Are We Living in Wonderland?
by Bradley Doucet

March 6, 2010--Lewis Carroll’s beloved Alice in Wonderland books have just been given a 3-D facelift by oddball director Tim Burton. In the film, which stars Johnny Depp as the Mad Hatter, a 19-year-old Alice returns to the magical land of her past adventures, embarking on a quest to end the Red Queen’s reign of terror.

Here in the real world, we might be forgiven for wondering if we, too, hadn’t fallen down the rabbit hole. An economic crisis of near-unprecedented proportions has shaken a system many thought sound, but the reactions of politicians just seem to get curiouser and curiouser by the day. Like Alice in her encounters with the quirky residents of Wonderland, we need to confront the nonsensical beliefs and distortions of language that threaten to further erode our wealth and freedom.

Impossible Dreams

Alice: There’s no use trying; one can’t believe impossible things.
White Queen: I daresay you haven’t had much practice. When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.

Many politicians seem, like the White Queen from Through the Looking Glass, to have had a lot of practice believing impossible things. For instance, just about all of them profess to believe that governments can “create jobs,” ignoring the simple fact that a dollar spent by government is a dollar not spent by private actors. Most of them kept right on believing it, too, even after massive “stimulus” spending failed to prevent the American unemployment rate from topping 10 percent in recent months.

One source of politicians’ confusion on this score may stem from the related belief that wealth can simply be created out of thin air. After all, if politicians fund their quixotic job creation schemes with newly-printed dollars, they needn’t raise taxes, right? But unfortunately for them, inflation is in reality just a hidden tax. The devalued dollars left in people’s pockets after monetary inflation will buy fewer actual goods and services.

If governments cannot create jobs in one part of the economy without simultaneously destroying them in another part through taxation or inflation (and causing a lot of misery in the interim), what about protecting existing jobs from foreign competition? International trade takes place for the same reason local trade takes place: because specialization and voluntary exchange are mutually beneficial to all parties. Workers, remember, are also consumers, and limiting trade hurts consumers, who must pay more for their goods and services. Shutting down trade completely would drastically lower everyone’s standard of living; shutting it down selectively can benefit certain producers, but only at the expense of all others. Yet in capitals ’round the world, they keep dreaming these impossible dreams.

The Humpty Dumpty Theory of Meaning

Humpty: When I use a word, it means just what I choose it to mean"neither more nor less.
Alice: The question is whether you can make words mean so many different things.
Humpty: The question is which is to be master"that’s all.

But perhaps our politicians only spout such impossibilities in order to garner favor with voters, who either truly believe them or are in turn cynically self-serving. Indeed, there are many clear examples of politicians neither meaning what they say nor saying what they mean. Perhaps if pressed, though, they would argue, like Humpty Dumpty (sadly missing from Burton’s film), that when they use a word, it means just what they choose it to mean.

How else can we reconcile U. S. President Barack Obama’s stated desire to “invest in our people without leaving them a mountain of debt” on the one hand, and the latest federal budget on the other? Released last month, the 2011 budget is called “A New Era of Responsibility,” but it is an exemplar of fiscal irresponsibility. According to economist Gregory Mankiw, the budget’s own projections put the government’s debt at 77 percent of GDP by the year 2020. This is a level unseen since the aftermath of World War II, and more than twice the percentage in 2007. (This is not to excuse Obama’s predecessor, a “conservative” who, at least when it came to spending, was anything but.)

And what about the President’s campaign pledge not to have former lobbyists working in his White House? He congratulated himself on this point in his State of the Union address, saying, “We’ve excluded lobbyists from policymaking jobs.” This, however, is a positively Carrollian abuse of the English language. As Timothy P. Carney, author of the recent book Obamanomics, points out, over 40 former lobbyists hold senior positions in the Obama administration. A White House spokesperson defended the President’s statement, though, writing to Carney in an email that the White House has indeed “turned away lobbyists for many, many positions.” The common sense interpretation that all such applicants had been turned away was simply not what the President meant, you see.

Lest I be accused of picking only on American politicians, let me target one of my own countrymen. Danny Williams, Premier of Newfoundland, was a firm supporter of Canada’s socialized health system"that is, until he got sick. His defense for recently seeking treatment in the United States: “I did not sign away my right to get the best possible health care for myself when I entered politics.”

The whole health care debate is packed with people not saying what they mean. Perhaps the most egregious distortion here is the demand that people with pre-existing conditions not be denied “insurance.” But insurance, by definition, is a way of hedging against risk by spreading it among a group of people. A person who already has a condition before becoming insured can no longer get insurance, because the risk has become a certainty. What they need at this point is not insurance, but charity. Defenders of universal socialized health care would rather ignore such distinctions.

A Mad Tea Party

March Hare: Take some more tea.
Alice: I’ve had nothing yet, so I can’t take more.
Mad Hatter: You mean you can’t take less. It’s very easy to take more than nothing.

In the battle for reason, liberty, and joy, we actually need to run just to stand still, like Alice and the Red Queen. If we are not vigilant, we lose ground. But many people, especially in the United States, are raising their voices in protest against the nonsense and manipulations that prop up the push for ever-expanding government. Appropriately enough, the latest manifestation of resistance against fiscal irresponsibility and an expansion of socialized medicine calls itself the Tea Party movement.

The March Hare, Dormouse, and Hatter that Alice meets at her tea party are all quite mad. But although the American Tea Party may have a few kooks in it for jokesters like Jon Stewart to ridicule"and which movement doesn’t?"these people are not crazy. They are mad, however; in fact, they’re mad as hell about the state of their Union.

Granted, the size of the American government"like that in most countries"has been growing almost unchecked for many decades now, regardless of whether Democrats or Republicans have been in charge. But this latest crisis, along with the last two governments’ bungled responses to it, have galvanized a significant number of people. Where will the Tea Partyers go from here? As the Cheshire Cat tells Alice when she asks for directions, that depends a good deal on where they want to get to. But whether it’s with the Tea Party or some other group, those of us who fight for smaller, more rational government have no intention of disappearing anytime soon.
...
Copyright, The Atlas Society. For more information, please visit www.atlassociety.org.
Advocate
 
  1  
Thu 11 Mar, 2010 02:26 pm
@ican711nm,
Are we supposed to believe that you, of all people, are a constitutional scholar. Many of the things done by government have been decided in the courts and have been sustained. Do you feel that the parties should have instead consulted you?
parados
 
  3  
Thu 11 Mar, 2010 02:30 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:
Many politicians seem, like the White Queen from Through the Looking Glass, to have had a lot of practice believing impossible things. For instance, just about all of them profess to believe that governments can “create jobs,” ignoring the simple fact that a dollar spent by government is a dollar not spent by private actors. Most of them kept right on believing it, too, even after massive “stimulus” spending failed to prevent the American unemployment rate from topping 10 percent in recent months.

You do have to wonder what fantasy world someone lives in that would make the above claim.

So.. if a Federal worker is paid a dollar, they will never spend it in the private sector?
So.. if the Federal government borrows money from China to spend in the US that means the Chinese would have spent that dollar in the US?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Thu 11 Mar, 2010 02:33 pm
@parados,
What more, you would be extremely hard-pressed to find an economist who claims that the stimulus didn't help create jobs and keep lots of state employees from being laid off.

Reality isn't really an issue for these folks, it's all about Ideology, all the time; and that ideology is pure and unadulterated greed. These objectivst bullshit artists don't even pretend to hide it like most Republicans do.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Thu 11 Mar, 2010 02:49 pm
@parados,
If you feel the purpose of government is to spend money, I would have to concede we have a very successful government.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Thu 11 Mar, 2010 02:53 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:

If you feel the purpose of government is to spend money, I would have to concede we have a very successful government.


Neat rhetorical trick, but you have it backwards. The government SPENDS to accomplish purposes that the general citizenry wish to have accomplished, as interpreted by our elected officials. The problem in the case of most of you guys, is that you don't give a fig for any service which does not personally benefit you. Thus the constant sturm and drang regarding government spending.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Thu 11 Mar, 2010 03:17 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:

If you feel the purpose of government is to spend money, I would have to concede we have a very successful government.

Boy Roger...

How much money would a company save if they fired their accountants and hired workers from McDonalds to do the job at $10/hour?
roger
 
  1  
Thu 11 Mar, 2010 03:33 pm
@parados,
Not quite sure I get your drift. Governments do useful things. To do so, they have to pay a reasonable wage, and I'm not suggesting they don't. To justify a project in terms of spending money instead of getting a result strikes me as silly.

For some time, I have noticed that our philosophies are not perfectly aligned.
maporsche
 
  1  
Thu 11 Mar, 2010 03:37 pm
@roger,
It is very silly.

I want those results to be acheived using a few of my dollars as possible too; meaning if you can get the same job done at the same quality for $10/hr, then you'd better not be paying more than $10/hr.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Thu 11 Mar, 2010 03:50 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

It is very silly.

I want those results to be acheived using a few of my dollars as possible too; meaning if you can get the same job done at the same quality for $10/hr, then you'd better not be paying more than $10/hr.


The question is, how do you find out if the job can be done by someone who is making (essentially) minimum wage? By firing everyone involved and then seeing if the new guys can get the job done?

My guess is that both your and my jobs could be done by someone making less money then we do. Should we be fired and replaced with cheaper workers? Is this the best way to run a business?

Cycloptichorn
ican711nm
 
  -3  
Thu 11 Mar, 2010 03:50 pm
@Advocate,
Advocate wrote:
Many of the things done by government have been decided in the courts and have been sustained.

The federal government's powers are limited to those powers granted it by the Constitution. The courts--not even the Supreme court--have not been granted the power by the Constitution to amend the Constitution.
Quote:

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html
Article V
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.

Quote:

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html
Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

The Constitution means what those who adopted it and amended it said it means. The courts have not been granted the power by the Constitution to change the meaning of the Constitution from what those who adopted it and amended it said it means. Therefore the courts cannot legally change the meaning of the Constitution from what those who adopted it and amended it said it means.
Quote:

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html
Article VI
...
This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.

Quote:

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html
Article II
Section 4. The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.

Quote:

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html
Article III
Section 2 ... The trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment, shall
be by jury; and such trial shall be held in the state where the said crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any state, the trial shall be at such place or places as the Congress may by law have directed.

Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.
The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted.
.

Quote:

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html
Article I
Section 2...
The House of Representatives shall choose their speaker and other officers; and shall have the sole power of impeachment.
Section 3....
The Senate shall have the sole power to try all impeachments. When sitting for that purpose, they shall be on oath or affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no person shall be convicted without the concurrence of two thirds of the members present.
parados
 
  2  
Fri 12 Mar, 2010 09:12 am
@ican711nm,
Quote:

The federal government's powers are limited to those powers granted it by the Constitution. The courts--not even the Supreme court--have not been granted the power by the Constitution to amend the Constitution.

The courts are given the power to INTERPRET the constitution since they have the power to judge all cases concerning the law and the Constitution is the law.

I find it funny how you always manage to miss that part of the constitution ican.

Quote:
Section 2.

The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States, and treaties made, or which shall be made, under their authority;--to all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls;


I find it amazing how you claim the courts have NO say in a case about the meaning of the law when the Constitution clearly says they DO have that power.
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Fri 12 Mar, 2010 02:59 pm
Good afternoon. I wrote (here or on the Where Is The Economy Headed thread) about how President Obama has the ability to nominate 3 new members to the 7 member Federal Reserve Board. I said, perhaps hyperbolically, that this is almost as important as a nomination to the Supreme Court.
The list of potential candidates seems to be shrinking according to carefully orchestrated leaks from the administration.
Janet Yellen, President of the Federal Reserve of San Francisco, appears to be in line for the #2 position.
What has economic junkies like me paying close attention is what the attitude of the "new" Fed will be with regard to interest rates as we work on recovering from the recession.
Ms. Yellen is considered to be a "dove:" she favors keeping interest rates on loans to the banks artificially low (my perception) in order to spur lending, spending and ultimately hiring.
The "hawkish" view is that keeping interest rates low will cause inflation that could send us back into recession.
Any nomination by Mr. Obama must be approved by the Senate. I think he will try to get names sent up soon so the Senate can act before the election.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Fri 12 Mar, 2010 03:05 pm
@realjohnboy,
Quote:
In her time as a Fed policy maker, Ms. Yellen has never cast a dissenting vote on policy " in either raising interest rates or lowering them. She has voted 36 times as a member of the Federal Open Market Committee, always with the majority

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2010/03/12/who-is-janet-yellen/

Sounds like a textbook Obama gal.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Fri 12 Mar, 2010 07:23 pm
@parados,
I find it amazing how you misinterpret and distort what I post!

Ican posted: The federal government's powers are limited to those powers granted it by the Constitution. The courts--not even the Supreme court--have not been granted the power by the Constitution to amend the Constitution.

Parados posted: I find it amazing how you claim the courts have NO say in a case about the meaning of the law when the Constitution clearly says they DO have that power.
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  0  
Fri 12 Mar, 2010 07:26 pm
Follow the money

Obama contributions;

University of California $1,591,395
Goldman Sachs $994,795
Harvard University $854,747
Microsoft Corp $833,617
Google Inc $803,436
Citigroup Inc $701,290
JPMorgan Chase & Co $695,132
Time Warner $590,084
Sidley Austin LLP $588,598
Stanford University $586,557
National Amusements Inc $551,683
UBS AG $543,219
Wilmerhale Llp $542,618
Skadden, Arps et al $530,839
IBM Corp $528,822
Columbia University $528,302
Morgan Stanley $514,881
General Electric $499,130
US Government $494,820
Latham & Watkins $493,835

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00009638
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Fri 12 Mar, 2010 07:45 pm
@Amigo,
Amigo wrote:

Follow the money

Obama contributions;

University of California $1,591,395
Harvard University $854,747
Stanford University $586,557
Columbia University $528,302
US Government $494,820

http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/contrib.php?cycle=2008&cid=N00009638


Wow!
Amigo
 
  1  
Fri 12 Mar, 2010 07:50 pm
@realjohnboy,
I wonder if everybody is getting there money worth?
maporsche
 
  1  
Fri 12 Mar, 2010 08:12 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
You don't have to fire anybody.

When someone quits, gets promoted, moves, etc....you post their job for less money than you paid the last guy. If no one qualified applies for the job, you raise the pay by some percentage, and repeat until you have someone.

This is EXACTLY how a good business is ran.
0 Replies
 
 

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