parados
 
  2  
Thu 11 Feb, 2010 09:44 pm
@ican711nm,
Quote:
Bush43's tax cut to 35% in the year 2003 had nothing to do with Clinton's surplus ending in 2001. Obviously, Bush43's tax cuts from 39.6% to 39.1% in 2001 and from 39.1% to 38.6% in 2002 were too small to have caused Clinton's surplus to no longer exist in 2002.

How silly can you get ican. Income taxes are NOT based solely on the highest rate. Bush didn't just cut the top rate. You have to include ALL his cuts if you want to claim the cut couldn't have caused the decrease in tax revenues.

Funny how you fail to factor in ALL the cuts.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 12 Feb, 2010 10:25 am
@ican711nm,
Quote:

It is NOT" impossible to cut our spending to the point where we would pay off our bills." All we have to do is cut spending over the next decade or two to maintain budget surpluses each and every year. That's something Obama could begin to do now and in each year including 2012.

Lower-tax environments and controlled spending can together lead us to reducing future budget deficits.


No, it won't. I challenge you to take a model of our budget and show how you would cut spending enough to not only balance the budget but to provide the extra 200 billion or so which is needed just to keep up with the INTEREST on our national debt.

So far, nobody else has been able to do this. Can you?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Fri 12 Feb, 2010 10:43 am
Does anyone remember when the dems said raising the minimum wage would help create jobs?

Well, guess what.

Quote:
Now a new study from Ball State University's Center for Business and Economic Research says that the minimum wage increase may have cost the country 550,000 jobs


Details of the study can be found at www.bsu.edu/cber.

But here is the report about the study...

http://www.thestarpress.com/article/20100209/BUSINESS/2090313/Minimum+wage+hike+killed+jobs++BSU+study+says
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Fri 12 Feb, 2010 10:51 am
@mysteryman,
From the report:

Quote:
"Instead of hiring a dozen teens to work a popular summer restaurant or theme park, a company would hire six or less," Hicks said. "Instead of filling positions that required no skills, companies were making do with what they had. In the long run, this hurt young, unskilled workers."


The problem is that in this low-job environment, these jobs are increasingly being taken by older, skilled workers, because that's all they can get. These folks many times have families to support.

Raising the minimum wage means that those who work for minimum wage and are not a teenager - which is a lot of people in America - have a much better opportunity to LIVE off of that wage. We shouldn't have jobs here which are full-time, yet you cannot live off of the amount you make! That makes no sense at all. Rising the minimum wage over time helps keep people in homes and families from being on welfare and food stamps.

Quote:
Does anyone remember when the dems said raising the minimum wage would help create jobs?


Um, no. I don't think anynational Dem made this argument at all. Instead, I think the argument was that jobs should pay you enough to live off of - not that raising the minimum wage would create more jobs.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Fri 12 Feb, 2010 12:00 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
The rates of job creation from 1980-present are not much different then what they were historically when tax rates were much higher. It gives the lie to your entire theory.

Therefore, it follows from your statement that the rates of job creation historically, when tax rates were much higher, were not much different from 1980 to the present during which tax rates became much lower.

CONCLUSION FROM YOUR STATEMENT:
HIGH TAX RATES DO NOT INCREASE JOBS, SO INCREASING MAXIMUM TAX RATES DOES NOT INCREASE JOBS.
ican711nm
 
  0  
Fri 12 Feb, 2010 12:04 pm
@ican711nm,
What does increase employment? People who employ other people must have access to sufficient credit to borrow what they require in addition to their profits--if any--to invest in more jobs.

Since 2007, the federal government has been borrowing money from the private sector that would be better loaned by the private sector to itself to increase jobs and its private earnings. Increased private earnings at the current maximum tax rate will provide the federal government additional income to spend on reducing the rapidity with which federal government is increasing its debt.

Increasing the maximum tax rate will reduce the amount of money the private sector has to increase jobs and its private earnings, and thereby ultimately reduce the amount of taxes the private sector can pay to the federal government as well as to state governments.
ican711nm
 
  0  
Fri 12 Feb, 2010 12:05 pm
@ican711nm,
Clinton in 1993 increased the maximum tax rate from 31% to 39.6%. Clinton did not obtain a surplus until 1998. That surplus faded quickly in 2002, before Bush decreased the maximum tax rate from 38.6% to 35%.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Fri 12 Feb, 2010 12:07 pm
@ican711nm,
ican711nm wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
The rates of job creation from 1980-present are not much different then what they were historically when tax rates were much higher. It gives the lie to your entire theory.

Therefore, it follows from your statement that the rates of job creation historically, when tax rates were much higher, were not much different from 1980 to the present during which tax rates became much lower.

CONCLUSION FROM YOUR STATEMENT:
HIGH TAX RATES DO NOT INCREASE JOBS, SO INCREASING MAXIMUM TAX RATES DOES NOT INCREASE JOBS.


Why is it that you are so focused on creating jobs? The point of tax rates is not to create jobs! That is neither their function nor their purpose!

Cycloptichorn
ican711nm
 
  0  
Fri 12 Feb, 2010 12:19 pm
@ican711nm,
By raising the maximum tax rate from 25% to 64% to help pay for a series of public works programs (aka, stimulus programs), the Hoover Revenue Act of 1932 stifled an already weakened GREAT DEPRESSION economy

Hoover's 4-year term was marked by an unprecedented government intervention in the economy, including subsidizing weak companies.

Federal spending increased by 57% during Hoover's term. When Hoover left office, unemployment was at 25%.

How many times does our federal government have to try this "stimulus" crap before it realizes its expectation of a different result is crazy?
ican711nm
 
  0  
Fri 12 Feb, 2010 12:41 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Why is it that you are so focused on creating jobs? The point of tax rates is not to create jobs! That is neither their function nor their purpose!

The purpose of federal taxes is to: "provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity."

The purpose of federal taxes is not transfering wealth or controlling profit in the private economy.

I think the best measures for how well the federal government is accomplishing its purpose, is the security of both our liberty and our jobs in the private economy.

Currently, the Obama Administration's expansion of federal government wealth transfers are the greatest threat to the security of both our liberty and our jobs in the private economy.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Fri 12 Feb, 2010 12:58 pm
@ican711nm,
In testimony before Congress, Roosevelt's Secretary of the Treasury, Morganthau admitted defeat. "We have tried spending money more than we have ever spent before and it does not work. From 1930 to 1940, federal spending tripled as Hoover's various stimulus programs and Roosevelt's New Deal stimulus programs were created and expanded in a costly effort to halt the collapse of the economy. Federal spending rose 3.4% in 1930 to 9.8% in 1940 as a share of the Gross Domsestic Product. Despite this spending, the number of unemployed doubled from 2.8 million in 1930 to 6.9 million in 1940.

Morgenthau said to Congress, "I say that after 8 years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as we had when we started ... and an enormous debt to boot!"

It took WWII, the military draft, and the feds buying from the private economy to get America out of the Depression.
ican711nm
 
  0  
Fri 12 Feb, 2010 01:12 pm
@ican711nm,
In an effort to end a recession and end an unemployment rate of more than 7%, President Kennedy in 1963 said to Congress, "The largest single barrier to full employment of our manpower and resources and to a higher rate of economic growth, is the unrealistic drag of federal income taxes on private purchasing power, initiative and incentive."

The economy turned around during Kennedy's Administration due to Kennedy's reduction of the maximum tax rate from 91% to 70%. Unemployment decreased below 5%, and the economy grew by more than 42% from 1961 to 1968.
ican711nm
 
  0  
Fri 12 Feb, 2010 01:27 pm
@ican711nm,
In 1979, President Carter in a speech blamed the American people for the miserable state of the economy: 20% inflation, economic stagnation, and unemployment approaching 8%. He asked us "for your good and our nation's security to take no unnecessary trips, to use carpools or public transportation whenever you can, to park your car one extra day per week, to obey the speed limit, and to set your thermostats to save fuel.

Actually, the Democrat Congress ruined the economy by establishing new taxes on oil and gas, as well as spending billions of dollars on stimulus programs like Roosevelt's job programs, urban aid, and various entitlements.
ican711nm
 
  0  
Fri 12 Feb, 2010 01:42 pm
@ican711nm,
In 1981. Reagan presided over two major tax legislations. The first was the 1981 Economic Recovery Tax Act. It reduced the maximum tax rate from 70% in 1980 to 28% by 1988. The second was the Gramm-Rudman Balanced Budget Act.

Together these legislations caused a 7 year boom period of economic growth averaging almost 4% per year, and the greatest 16-month average increase in employment in modern American history.

MORE TO COME!
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 12 Feb, 2010 01:45 pm
@ican711nm,
Who are you even talking to? Yourself?

I think that you think that if you repeat things often enough, others will believe that they are true. This is not an effective strategy. Instead, you would be better served if you could show people that you understand the difference between Correlation and Causation.

Cycloptichorn
roger
 
  1  
Fri 12 Feb, 2010 01:47 pm
@ican711nm,
Morganthau forgot to count "Jobs Saved". Bad politician.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Fri 12 Feb, 2010 07:31 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Who are you even talking to? Yourself?

I think that you think that if you repeat things often enough, others will believe that they are true. This is not an effective strategy. Instead, you would be better served if you could show people that you understand the difference between Correlation and Causation.

I notice that there is an increasing correlation between the faults you have, and the faults you accuse me of having.

Perhaps these definitions will help you discover this correlation and its cause:
Quote:


http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/unabridged?va=correlation&x=22&y=9
Main Entry: cor·re·la·tion
...
1 : ... the relation of phenomena as invariable accompaniments of each other whether causally connected or not
...
2 : reciprocal or mutual relation in the occurrence ... of different structures, characteristics, or processes in organisms
3 : an interdependence between mathematical variables especially in statistics
4 : determination of synchrony, of homotaxis, or of relation to the scale of geologic time -- usually used in the comparison of geologic formations or of fossil faunas or floras belonging to different districts

http://unabridged.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/unabridged?va=cause&x=26&y=10
Main Entry: 1cause
...
1 a : a person, thing, fact, or condition that brings about an effect or that produces or calls forth a resultant action or state
b : a reason or motive for an action or condition
c : a good or adequate reason : a sufficient activating factor
...
3 a : something that occasions or effects a result : the necessary antecedent of an effect : something that determines any motion or change or produces a phenomenon
b : an event or set of events that on the basis of scientific methods and laws has been established as the invariant antecedent or concomitant necessary for the occurrence of another event or set of events
...


0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Fri 12 Feb, 2010 08:01 pm
@ican711nm,
Congressional Democrats passed the Emergency Jobs Act of 1983. This program was an ill-fated government disaster in a long line of failed attempts to throw money at unemployment. According to testimony by a GAO official, only a small percentage of the jobs provided went to the unemployed or to the states affected by the recession.

However, the recession does end thanks to Reagan's tax cuts, and not because of the Emergency Jobs Act of 1983.
Quote:

http://www.heritage.org/research/budget/bg2208.cfm
November 12, 2008
Why Government Spending Does Not Stimulate Economic Growth
by Brian M. Riedl
Backgrounder #2208

In a throwback to the 1930s and 1970s, Demo­cratic lawmakers are betting that America's economic ills can be cured by an extraordinary expansion of government. This tired approach has already failed repeatedly in the past year, in which Congress and the President:
Increased total federal spending by 11 percent to nearly $3 trillion;
Enacted $333 billion in "emergency" spending;
Enacted $105 billion in tax rebates; and
Pushed the budget deficit to $455 billion in the name of "stimulus."
...

ican711nm
 
  -1  
Fri 12 Feb, 2010 08:25 pm
@ican711nm,
The passage of George Bush's Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003 lowered the the maximum tax rate paid by large and small businesses and entrpreneurs. The result was unemployment was reduced from 6.3% to 4.7%.

In reaction to to the subprime mortgage debacle and a declining dollar, Bush in 2008 signs a $178 billion economic stimulus package. It did not curtail the recession, because it did not cause people to spend more. That was due to the failure of rebate checks to increase people's marginal incentive to work and did not create permanent change to individual real wealth.

Then in 2009, Obama aggrevated that bad Bush response by signing the American Reinvestment Act of 2009. It has failed to do what Obama promised it would do: create millions of jobs. Fact is millions more jobs have been lost.

Why is it that our federal government has returned again to doing that which failed previosly multiple times, expecting a different result?

Einstein claimed that behavior was insane. Einstein was correct!
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Fri 12 Feb, 2010 09:33 pm
Quote:
It was not to be. Voters are in no mood for a wave of domestic transformation. The economy is already introducing enough insecurity into their lives. Unlike 1932 and 1965, Americans do not trust Washington to take them on a leap of faith, especially if it means more spending.

The country has reacted harshly to the course the administration ended up embracing. Obama is still admired personally, but every major proposal " from the stimulus to health care " is quite unpopular. Independent voters have swung against the administration. Voters are not reacting to the particulars of each bill. They are reacting against the total activist onslaught.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/12/opinion/12brooks.html

Sing on brother Brooks!
0 Replies
 
 

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