Obama '08?

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

If you are right about all of this, then please explain how it is , -with such an unusual commanding majority in both Houses of the Congress, and the widespread public support that you claim -, that the Administration has experienced failure after failure in enacting its legislative program;

Well, the administration has failed - mostly - in getting the health care bill passed, and it took up so much time this year that the Congress didn't get around to Cap and trade either.

But I believe - once again - that if you take the time to examine the data, you will find that Obama had more bills passed (that he took a position on) then either Bush sr., Bush Jr., or Clinton did in their first year. Obama has been quite effective in some areas, and ineffective in others. A mixed bag. But I expected nothing more or less from his first year, personally.

I would also remind you that the Dem caucus isn't as rock-solid as the Republican one. Our leaders are not as good at forcing the Dem senators to toe the line as the Republicans were when they were in control. In a way I am glad, b/c I would hate to see us resort to the same sort of thuggish tactics that the Republicans use to keep their members in line (and if you don't believe that's true, you don't know **** about Tom Delay). But it is frustrating.

Additionally, the Republicans have gone totally nuclear against the Dems and have dug their heels in to the highest extent possible. In many cases their actions have been boorish and unbecoming of elected officials. In the House, the Republicans regularly call for roll call votes at every single opportunity, use every trick to delay and make things take longer. In the Senate, no Republican has shown any interest in working with the majorities, period. They have no respect for the fact that the country voted them out of power. So, to blame all the failures of Obama's agenda on the Dems is ludicrous. It's not the job of the minority party to work as hard as possible to turn the President into a failure, and if you think it is, you have a twisted view of our country, George.

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the President has kept so few of his campaign promises; and the tide of off year elections and candidacies (such as that of Biden's son in Delaware) is going so hard against Democrats ?????

There definitely is an 'enthusiasm' gap right now; Dems are pissed b/c we can't get anything through the Senate and the Republican media machine has the mouth-breathers all at a froth about Obama, not that this took much stoking.

When it comes to off-year elections, Republicans have had some success - but so have Democrats. Three out of the last four elections in the offyear have been won by Republicans; but all five out of the last five before those were won by the Dems. There has hardly been some sort of sea-change of dissatisfaction sweep across the country.

I would also remind you that polling data (as of this week) still shows that the most trusted group to deal with our problems is: Obama, Congressional Dems, then Congressional Republicans. The highest approval ratings are: Obama, then Congressional Dems, then Congressional Republicans. Polling data gives the lie to your theories George, and as you are unwilling to provide any evidence whatsoever to back them up - why should anyone take you seriously?

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cyclo wrote:

This is the entire point of labeling him a great Orator; his average performances are as good as other people's best performances.

Good grief...enough of your little man-crush already.
He speaks well and has a pulpit where that can be recognized. He's had a few good performances that I'll give him credit for, but I won't put him quite yet in the same category as Reagan, Churchill, Lincoln or Jefferson.

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@slkshock7,

slkshock7 wrote:

Cyclo wrote:
This is the entire point of labeling him a great Orator; his average performances are as good as other people's best performances.

Good grief...enough of your little man-crush already.

I don't have a man-crush on him. It is a judgment of reality. That sort of sexualized language is designed to insult and put down, but I reject your pathetic attempts. You'll have to do a lot better than that bro.

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He speaks well and has a pulpit where that can be recognized. He's had a few good performances that I'll give him credit for, but I won't put him quite yet in the same category as Reagan, Churchill, Lincoln or Jefferson.

Oh, so he doesn't measure up to our list of 'greatest Orators of recent history,' so it's wrong to call him a 'great orator?' What a crock of ****. You have put yourself out on a limb here and keep edging further and further in an attempt to put the guy down.

Face it; he's talented in a way that no Republican and really no other Dem on the modern scene is. It's a big boost to his political ability. And that's why you guys like to make fun of him for using a teleprompter: because you hate and fear his ability and want to tear him down.

It is so transparent and oh-so hilarious at the same time. I'm sure you can find something dumber to criticize him over, though, so get right on that for us.

Cycloptichorn

0 Replies

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

If you are right about all of this, then please explain how it is , -with such an unusual commanding majority in both Houses of the Congress, and the widespread public support that you claim -, that the Administration has experienced failure after failure in enacting its legislative program; the President has kept so few of his campaign promises; and the tide of off year elections and candidacies (such as that of Biden's son in Delaware) is going so hard against Democrats ?????

Wow.. Congressional Quarterly must be mistaken

Quote:

President Obama set a new record last year for getting Congress to vote his way, according to an annual study by Congressional Quarterly.

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Well, I'm not asking you to take what I write seriously. I'm merely expressing my views. However, I believe you do consider them and that they are not - even in your eyes - without merit.

It seems to me you are a bit selective in your use of polling data, which also shows a marked dissatisfaction with the Denocrat leadership in the Congress and widespread dissatisfaction with both the health care and cap & trade proposals.

While it is true that the Cap & Trade legislation hasn't come before the Congress yet, I strongly suspect that it is already a dead letter and the Administration won't even try. I believe that is why they have attempted to achieve the same outcome through the Administrative action of the EPA in (laughably) finding CO2 to be a toxic gas, and therefore subject to their regulation.

It is true that the various single issue constituent groups in the Democrat party do create a more discordant choir than that of the Republicans. In addition the Republican preference for less government instead of more intrinsically makes for easier unity than that of a crowd that argues incessantly about which of many competing (and sometimes contradictory) government interventins should have priority. That has been true for a long time.

I don't think the Republican discipline of its legislators has been any more thuggish than that of the Democrats. Instead I believe the Democrats merely burden themselves with gangs of competing thugs who reduce each other's effectiveness. The recent fiasco with respect to "cadillac plan" taxes on Labor Union health plans (particularly those enjoyed by their officials) was an excellent example.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

Well, I'm not asking you to take what I write seriously. I'm merely expressing my views. However, I believe you do consider them and that they are not - even in your eyes - without merit.

It seems to me you are a bit selective in your use of polling data, which also shows a marked dissatisfaction with the Denocrat leadership in the Congress and widespread dissatisfaction with both the health care and cap & trade proposals.

I would like to see the polling data you're citing. I can provide plenty of examples which show that when asked about the specifics of health care, majorities support ALL the goals the Dems have proposed.

However, most Dems are very unpleased at the lack of progress and polling shows this as well. This reflects negatively in many general polls re: health care. The problem is that you have decided that all opposition to what is going on right now is due to people being against the basic premises. The data does not support this conclusion.

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While it is true that the Cap & Trade legislation hasn't come before the Congress yet,

You must mean the Senate - the House passed this bill a while back, the ACES bill.

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I strongly suspect that it is already a dead letter and the Administration won't even try. I believe that is why they have attempted to achieve the same outcome through the Administrative action of the EPA in (laughably) finding CO2 to be a toxic gas, and therefore subject to their regulation.

You ought to look at the USSC if you're pissed about the EPA decision, as they are the ones who green-lighted it with their decision last year.

I think that CO2 regulation should fall under the EPA's purview, because the unrestricted emission of it has the possibility to cause great harm to the citizens of this country - whether or not they utilize a companies' products. You are amazingly un-conservative on this issue, George, willing to roll the dice rather than take a measured approach. Fortunately for the rest of us, we don't rely upon skeptics to make our decisions for us.

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It is true that the various single issue constituent groups in the Democrat party do create a more discordant choir than that of the Republicans. In addition the Republican preference for less government instead of more intrinsically makes for easier unity than that of a crowd that argues incessantly about which of many competing (and sometimes contradictory) government interventins should have priority. That has been true for a long time.

Agreed.

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I don't think the Republican discipline of its legislators has been any more thuggish than that of the Democrats.

Then, as I said before, you know next to nothing about how Tom Delay ran the house and Gingrich the Senate. Seriously. Do some research on how they used re-election funds as a weapon with which to beat their own party member incessantly, and then get back to me when you discover any evidence of Dems doing the same thing.

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Instead I believe the Democrats merely burden themselves with gangs of competing thugs who reduce each other's effectiveness. The recent fiasco with respect to "cadillac plan" taxes on Labor Union health plans (particularly those enjoyed by their officials) was an excellent example.

Nah, it's just a favorite whipping-horse of anti-unionists such as yourself.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

A CBS instant poll after last night's speech found that 83 percent of speech watchers liked President Obama's proposals and 70 percent said Obama shares their priorities for the country, up from 57 percent before the speech. Forty-eight percent of speech watchers in a CNN poll had a very positive response to the speech while 30 percent had a somewhat positive response.

Republicans held their applause last night when President Obama declared that if bailed-out banks "can afford to hand out big bonuses again, they can afford a modest fee to pay back the taxpayers who rescued them in their time of need." "Of course, everybody hates the bankers, except the Republicans who sat on their hands when the president called for taxing them," writes the New York Times' Gail Collins.

-- americanprogressaction.org

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@Advocate,

Advocate wrote:

Were you sleeping during Bush's two terms? He left things to market forces, and put aside government controls and regulations. The result was a disaster for the country. For the first time in history, there was a net loss of jobs. There was a major bank and real estate crash. Incomes for those in the middle and lower classes declined. Etc., etc.!

No, I was not sleeping. Bush kept the country safe. Many of his policies were good, but yes, conservatives did criticize some of his spending and domestic policies, such as No Child Left Behind and the Prescription Drug Plan. He also kept the economy going in a decent manner with unemployment at comparatively low levels.

Bush did not govern perfectly, but his presidency was so far superior to Obama that it will continue to become increasingly obvious. What we need now is to get rid of the radicals in the administration and elect responsible adults to Congress that will actually get serious about having reasonable policies, which would include fiscal responsibility, free market solutions to problems, enforcing the law such as in the area of illegal immigration, the list goes on. We've now had almost a generation of government that has completely ignored their responsibilities and oath to uphold the constitution. And Obama is light years worse than anything we have had up to this point.

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@Cycloptichorn,

You are , of course, correct about the cap & trade bill. The House has indeed passed it. However, it too is a dead letter, and the chance of the Senate acting on it before the coming elections is nil - mostly because the Democrat leadership is frightened of yet another major defeat, both in the Senate and in the public mind.

I have a great deal of direct experience with the EPA, and know the venality of the organization very well. It is interesting that EPA has not yet acted or even spelled out how it will enforce its recent decision and, very importantly, how it will rationalize its intended selective enforcement of the law, as they now wish to apply it for CO2, given that the law does not authorize breaucratic selective enforcement at all. I suspect that this too is something that ius currently giving the Administration some second thoughts.

Do you really believe you speak "for the rest of us" on the matter of the supposed benefits to humanity of crippling our economy based on the dubious forecasts of the AGW cultists? Do you have any scientific knowledge of the subject or the physics & mathematics that go into it?

Are you suggesting that the Democrats do not play favorites in the dispensing of party campaign funds, or in directing the support of unions & other constituent groups? If so, you haven't been paying attention.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

Cap and trade bill is a stupid one based on several issues. We don't know how the bill will impact our already weakened economy, and going solo on such a bill that only impacts our country is not only uncalled for but stupid in its efforts.

I still have not seen credible information about the causes of global warming or its impact on our weather patterns.

It's not a cut and dry subject, because even climate scientists have differences of opinion. Until that's settled, it seem naive to implement any legislation that only handicaps our economy.

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@cicerone imposter,

I fully agree. A long time ago Thomas put it this way (paraphrase); 'CO2 accumulation in the atmosphere and some level of warming may be real, but the evidence suggests that it isn't worth fixing'. That is essentially the view of Bjorn Lundberg, a Danish former leader in the GHG movement. His argument is that there are many other far less costly and far more beneficial ways to improve the situation of mankind.

The earth's climate has never been stable, and there are many other natural phenomena, far more able to have dramatic effects on climate than the relatively small effects of accumulating CO2 in the atmosphere.

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@georgeob1,

The missing ingredient in all these arguments is the simple fact that the US population represents only 5%, while China and India represents over 40%.

Simple logistics and math tells us that other countries have a bigger stake in carbon production looking into the future.

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@cicerone imposter,

Interestingly the highest GHG emissions per capita in the world are in Canada.

1 Reply

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