Obama '08?

@OCCOM BILL,

Which part of "Yes, I do" didn't you understand?

1 Reply

@joefromchicago,

joefromchicago wrote:

Which part of "Yes, I do" didn't you understand?

The entire marriage part that comes after it....

0 Replies

@OCCOM BILL,

Sorry, I didn't see that question - too distracted by all the mis-representations of my argument in your last post.

Quote:

If Obama had stated agreement with the "Chickens" sentiment, in your honest opinion, do you think that would have hurt or helped his campaign?

It would have hurt it - there are always fools who can't put an ounce of analysis into anything, (as displayed by your responses on this topic, though I previously wouldn't have counted you among them) but not enough to keep him from winning, as he had a huge margin of victory and McCain's campaign was weak.

I have consistently stated that I believe that this idea is mainstream. I even wrote this post:

Quote:

Based on many years of conversations with folks of all political backgrounds, I truly believe it is maintstream. I believe polls would show well over half of Americans stating that they believed the statement that US actions in the Middle East lead to 9/11 happening, is an accurate description. I haven't been able to locate modern polling on this issue, other than some Zogby polls, which I distrust (based on Zogby's past reputation) despite the fact that they largely agree with my position.

In fact, I have never - and I do mean never, including my large family of Conservative Republicans - met someone who thought that US actions in the Middle East over the last few decades had nothing to do with 9/11. All admit that we have had both successes and failures, mistakes and positive actions over there. Most people I talked to directly blame the problem on the political party they opposed. And most realize that we have had a somewhat destabilizing effect on an already troubled reason.

Please understand that I do not believe, and I don't believe that Wright believed, that the people in the towers deserved it because of some actions they took. But we are allowed to speak about America as a whole and the consequences of our actions, right or wrong.

I do not expect people to be convinced by my Anecdotal evidence, and I have asked nobody to be convinced by it. I am merely stating the basis for my beliefs.

Before accusing others of lacking integrity, perhaps you should examine your penchant for misrepresenting their argument? I made it exceedingly clear that both Wright and myself were referring to America as a whole and not the victims themselves with the Chickens comment. You have ignored my repeated pointing this out to you, for the pure and simple reason that it destroys your argument in this thread completely.

I have no need whatsoever to assert superiority over you in this or any argument, Bill Laughing

and why would I? It is immaterial to me either way. I engage in discussion for the pure joy of doing so, and I've never been one to let sloppy arguments like yours slide.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@okie,

What the hell did Rev. Wright have to do with the apparently disturbed officer? 2 years ago, count 'em 2, while Herr Bush was the Supreme leader, the man in question was totally ignored when complained about and was PROMOTED! Did you hear me? Promoted! Who dropped the ball? Barely in office for roughly 12 months, I'll bet YOU think it's Obama's fault. Why do I bother? The Germans nor Italians were sent to fight in the country of their origins. It would have been simpler to not have made this man a CO, don't you think? Keep him stateside for his own sanity. Somebody had it in for him and he snapped.

2 Replies

@okie,

If anyone is conflicted, it's you! You know what the hell, you're talking about.

1 Reply

@snood,

Snood,
Malcolm spoke that phrase back in 1963 on the assassination of JFK and was lambasted by Elijah Muhammed, a philanderer and rapist. Upon Malcolm finding out what E. Muhammed was really about, he left the Nation of Islam and formed his own group. Malcolm being the charismatic leader he was, incensed Muhammed and Malcolm was subsequently assassinated himself in 1965. Today, the beliefs of Malcolm X are as popular today as they were back in the 60's. Many young black men and women ascribe to the teachings of Malcolm who believed in securing your freedom, "by any means necessary"!

A Black on-air personality came to AT&T during Black History Month in 1978. After his talk, I had the pleasure of having lunch with him and I asked him, to write something for my kids. He wrote "Remember Malcolm"! I never forgot it and began to read up on everything I could find about him, as I knew so little then. It was a defining moment for me.

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@Cycloptichorn,

You know what's ironic? America's inability to find Osama Bin Laden. I saw a sattelite pin-point an area totally unrelated to this topic, to show a story occurring at the moment. I turned to my husband and said, "tell me they don't know where bin Laden is"! My husband retired from the DoD and he said, "sure they do"! He's a man, that I can believe based on my husbands military and work experience for 37 years. I know stuff from my own sattelite experience, that if I tell you, I have to kill you!

This is a cheap ploy to keep America's citizens "dumbed down", while the government is engaging in subterfuge! While we sit here and debate NOTHING, the government goes along, "la-de-da", pulling the wool over our eyes! If they can send a man to the moon, then the space station, routinely, how much you wanna bet they know where bin Laden is?

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@Diest TKO,

Which then lead me to question, Where was NORAD? Anyone? All of that propaganda about US defense, etc. The Air Force Academy being in Colorado, etc. All rhetoric? Smoke and mirrors? Where the hell were our defenses?

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Sorry, I didn't see that question - too distracted by all the mis-representations of my argument in your last post.

Quote:
If Obama had stated agreement with the "Chickens" sentiment, in your honest opinion, do you think that would have hurt or helped his campaign?

It would have hurt it - there are always fools who can't put an ounce of analysis into anything, (as displayed by your responses on this topic, though I previously wouldn't have counted you among them) but not enough to keep him from winning, as he had a huge margin of victory and McCain's campaign was weak.

"It would have hurt it." After multiple posts trying to evade, you finally admit the simple truth. It would have hurt it.

Mainstream: the principal or dominant course, tendency, or trend: the mainstream of American culture.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Please understand that I do not believe, and I don't believe that Wright believed, that the people in the towers deserved it because of some actions they took. But we are allowed to speak about America as a whole and the consequences of our actions, right or wrong.

I haven't, and wouldn't accuse you of something so stupid. However, your statement "reap what you sew" implies culpability on those doing the reaping on account of the sewing previously done. In this exact case, those who did the reaping had little or nothing to do with that which you assert was sewn. By using this and the "Chickens came home to roost" sentiments; you (perhaps inadvertently) lend credibility to the attackers as if they're acts were somehow somewhat justified. It is a slap in the face to the families of the victims to imply that "they had it coming" no matter how you word it. These despicable murderers do not deserve to be counted with, say, the kamikaze pilots who attacked Pearl harbor. There is no honor in deliberately targeting innocent civilians for murder.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Before accusing others of lacking integrity, perhaps you should examine your penchant for misrepresenting their argument? I made it exceedingly clear that both Wright and myself were referring to America as a whole and not the victims themselves with the Chickens comment. You have ignored my repeated pointing this out to you, for the pure and simple reason that it destroys your argument in this thread completely.

I ignored this distinction because it is a nearly meaningless copout. America wasn't murdered on September 11th; nearly 3000 innocent people from dozens of different countries were. If you recall, in my opening post, I asserted that you'd have a better case if the attackers had stuck to military installations like the pentagon. In that scenario, the victims on board the planes could have reasonably been described as collateral damage. But that's not what they did. They deliberately targeted thousands of innocent civilians for murder.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

I have no need whatsoever to assert superiority over you in this or any argument, Bill and why would I? It is immaterial to me either way. I engage in discussion for the pure joy of doing so, and I've never been one to let sloppy arguments like yours slide.

So even as you backpedal to a "its just my opinion" position and even as you admit the sentiment couldn't be mainstream (if it were; Obama's parroting of same could only help his campaign), you still attempt portray your intellectual dishonesty in a superior light. This is why I usually avoid discussion with you. You could have simply conceded the obvious error when I first pointed it out.

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@teenyboone,

teenyboone wrote:

What the hell did Rev. Wright have to do with the apparently disturbed officer? 2 years ago, count 'em 2, while Herr Bush was the Supreme leader, the man in question was totally ignored when complained about and was PROMOTED! Did you hear me? Promoted! Who dropped the ball? Barely in office for roughly 12 months, I'll bet YOU think it's Obama's fault. Why do I bother? The Germans nor Italians were sent to fight in the country of their origins. It would have been simpler to not have made this man a CO, don't you think? Keep him stateside for his own sanity. Somebody had it in for him and he snapped.

Wright had nothing to do with the shooter, but I am making the point that this event serves as an illustration of the mindset of the Jeremiah Wrights of the world. The "chickens came home to roost" statement is not far from what the shooter also verbalized and believed. You need to pay attention to what other people are saying that he believed and talked about in the months leading up to his murders, as he apparently believed America brought 9/11 onto itself, and similarly I think he believes he was justified in doing what he did. As bizarre as it sounds, there are actually people on this forum, including cyclops, agreeing with the Reverend Wright. Remember now, Wright also railed against rich white people and Jews, among other things, the chickens came home to roost statement is only one of many bizarre and hate filled beliefs of this radical. The reason Wright is important is that we now have a president that considered the man to be his spiritual mentor, and I would suggest a political mentor as well by virtue of the fact that his church was based upon Black Liberation Theology, which is more political than religious in my opinion. Read about it. This subject is serious and it is not inconsequential, it directly relates to the well being of our country and all Americans. It is important that we all stand up and oppose the hate mongers in this country, including the people like the Reverend Wright and those that agree with him.

1 Reply

@teenyboone,

teenyboone wrote:

If anyone is conflicted, it's you! You know what the hell, you're talking about.

Wrong. I have a very clear foundation of what I believe, and I have been very clear about it, including on this forum, and that is why I have opposed people like Wright, Obama, and anyone that I think wants to take the country in the wrong direction. I am a conservative, I believe in the constitution, which is in individual rights and responsibilities for all citizens, and I am dead set against extreme socialism or marxism, which I think the extreme leftists in this country have affections for.

1 Reply

@teenyboone,

teenyboone wrote:

2 years ago, count 'em 2, while Herr Bush was the Supreme leader, the man in question was totally ignored when complained about and was PROMOTED! Did you hear me? Promoted! Who dropped the ball? Barely in office for roughly 12 months, I'll bet YOU think it's Obama's fault. Why do I bother? The Germans nor Italians were sent to fight in the country of their origins. It would have been simpler to not have made this man a CO, don't you think? Keep him stateside for his own sanity. Somebody had it in for him and he snapped.

I forgot to address this part of your post. No, I do not blame this on Obama, but I think it is more the fault of the political correctness that has even found its way into the military, and I believe this factor of political correctness is due to leftist ideas. I just think alot of serious questions need to be asked as to why nothing was done. If he did not believe in the mission of the country, as a higher ranking officer, perhaps he should have been drummed out of the military. I am not sure, I need more information, but if the guy hated his own country to the point that he went on a killing spree in the name of jihad, he is a terrorist, plain and simple, thats what it appears to me at this time.

2 Replies

@okie,

so Okie thinks the pentagon has gone socialist.

1 Reply

@dyslexia,

dyslexia wrote:

so Okie thinks the pentagon has gone socialist.

i would have said an autonomous collective. at the very least an an anarcho-syndicalist commune.

1 Reply

I was just watching the telly and Obama was laying a wreath at the tomb of the unknown soldier, he acted as if he was somebody important with his fancy suit and tie and he was surrounded by a bunch of military brass and they looked like they must worship him like he was some god or something. It's pretty obvious that those generals and admirals and such have been hoodwinked into his socialistic maoist commie hate america agenda. No once did the telly show Glenn Beck or any of the other true american patriots. this is obvious proof to anyone who can see that the media has socialistic tendencies. I bet Obama never even went through boot camp and yet he has the nerve to not only pitch the chicago gangsters for the olympics but to actually lay a wreath at the tomb of an unknown soldier.

1 Reply

@djjd62,

djjd62 wrote:

dyslexia wrote:

so Okie thinks the pentagon has gone socialist.

i would have said an autonomous collective. at the very least an an anarcho-syndicalist commune.

I don't generally read dyslexia anymore, but based upon your quote of him, if he had any sense, he would know that leftists push more than socialism as part of their many faceted agenda to secure their ultimate ends. Besides big government and more socialism, their agenda also includes political correctness taken to the nth degree, or extreme degree, to the point that common sense is thrown out the window. In the case of the shooter in Texas, although he apparently has been making a habit of condemning America and its actions, claiming America was at war with Islam, plus becoming conspicuously sympathetic to jihadists, plus making statements he was Islamic first, American second, it appears that the military stood by and essentially ignored it as probably innocent and insufficient to demote the guy or boot him out of the military altogether.

I don't mean to insult, but to be perfectly honest, it seems that everyone could understand that it very well could have been a case of political correctness run amok. Unless of course if you are a liberal like cyclops, then you accuse me of being "prejudiced."

I think its time to revive common sense and confront the realities of the world, folks. We cannot eliminate terrorism by pretending it doesn't exist and apologizing for it, we cannot spend our way to prosperity, we cannot have reasonable government when we elect radicals, we cannot make everyone better off by demonizing, robbing, and pillaging the producers, we cannot create a free lunch by pretending there is one and sitting on our behinds, we cannot create more freedom and liberty by having the government take care of everbody, we cannot make something good and virtuous by pretending that it is, the list goes on.

3 Replies

@okie,

well you've convinced me

i'm gonna make my own lunch from now on

and i'm gonna do something about those different folks to, there's some lutherans live down the road, think i'll go stand on their lawn and give them dirty looks

with christ and okie and my home made sammich on my side there's nothing i cant do

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@okie,

Remember, there can be no profiling...

1 Reply

@okie,

Quote:

I think its time to revive common sense and confront the realities of the world, folks. We cannot eliminate terrorism by pretending it doesn't exist and apologizing for it, we cannot spend our way to prosperity, we cannot have reasonable government when we elect radicals, we cannot make everyone better off by demonizing, robbing, and pillaging the producers, we cannot create a free lunch by pretending there is one and sitting on our behinds, we cannot create more freedom and liberty by having the government take care of everbody, we cannot make something good and virtuous by pretending that it is, the list goes on.

I guess that's why the GOP was voted out in 2008 and shouldn't be voted back in any time soon until they change their ways.

1 Reply

@parados,

parados wrote:

I guess that's why the GOP was voted out in 2008 and shouldn't be voted back in any time soon until they change their ways.

It is very likely that they will indeed be voted back in to power long before you agree that they have "changed rtheir ways".

2 Replies

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