Foxfyre
 
  1  
Fri 28 Aug, 2009 12:10 pm
@McGentrix,
The scary thing is that ACORN is going to be using the same kinds of people to conduct the 2010 U.S. Census. Doesn't it give you a warm fuzzy feeling of security and happiness to know that the integrity of that process is in such good hands?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 28 Aug, 2009 12:12 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxie, I know you have very good imagination, so why don't you tell us how ACORN is going to record the census in "fraudulent" ways?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Fri 28 Aug, 2009 12:23 pm
@McGentrix,
McG, every single one of the things you listed are voter registration fraud, not vote fraud. ACORN has not been shown to have encouraged people to vote under false names at all, and there's no evidence that people attempted to vote under these false registrations.

Quote:

Yeah, I figured you wouldn't get it. First, it's not an article. It's an aggregation of cases pending against ACORN with some commentary.


Actually, it was an article; an article which contained both an aggregation of cases against ACORN (none of which has resulted in a conviction) and 'some commentary' as you put it. I don't know why you wouldn't call it an article.

Quote:

Of course ACORN is going to say they have done nothing wrong. Why would anyone expect an organization as corrupt as ACORN do do or say anything to the contrary. There has been enough evidence to show that ACORN has committed fraud that everything they do should be suspect.


There is exactly zero evidence that ACORN committed fraud. And it is quite obvious that you didn't bother to read the articles that you linked to, as several of them explicitly mention that the folks who are being prosecuted for fraud were turned in by ACORN itself.

Quote:
You guys would hardly defend a right winged group based on the same evidence with the vigor you are doing with ACORN.

Hypocrisy, your name is liberal.


I wouldn't attack a right-wing group who had done nothing wrong.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  2  
Fri 28 Aug, 2009 12:40 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

....The RNC signs people up to vote, and various other Republican groups, in the same fashion as ACORN....


yep, they do.

Quote:
Voters say they were duped into registering as Republicans

YPM, a group hired by the GOP, allegedly deceived Californians who thought they were signing a petition. YPM denies any wrongdoing. Similar accusations have been leveled against the company elsewhere.

By Evan Halper, Los Angeles Times Staff Writers and Michael Rothfeld, Los Angeles Times Staff Writers
October 18, 2008

SACRAMENTO " Dozens of newly minted Republican voters say they were duped into joining the party by a GOP contractor with a trail of fraud complaints stretching across the country.

Voters contacted by The Times said they were tricked into switching parties while signing what they believed were petitions for tougher penalties against child molesters. Some said they were told that they had to become Republicans to sign the petition, contrary to California initiative law. Others had no idea their registration was being changed.

"I am not a Republican," insisted Karen Ashcraft, 47, a pet-clinic manager and former Democrat from Ventura who said she was duped by a signature gatherer into joining the GOP. "I certainly . . . won't sign anything in front of a grocery store ever again."

It is a bait-and-switch scheme familiar to election experts. The firm hired by the California Republican Party -- a small company called Young Political Majors, or YPM, which operates in several states -- has been accused of using the tactic across the country.

Election officials and lawmakers have launched investigations into the activities of YPM workers in Florida and Massachusetts. In Arizona, the firm was recently a defendant in a civil rights lawsuit. Prosecutors in Los Angeles and Ventura counties say they are investigating complaints about the company.

The firm, which a Republican Party spokesman said is paid $7 to $12 for each registration it secures, has denied any wrongdoing and says it has never been charged with a crime.

The 70,000 voters YPM has registered for the Republican Party this year will help combat the public perception that it is struggling amid Democratic gains nationally, give a boost to fundraising efforts and bolster member support for party leaders, political strategists from both parties say.

Those who were formerly Democrats may stop receiving phone calls and literature from that party, perhaps affecting its get-out-the-vote efforts. They also will be given only a Republican ballot in the next primary election if they do not switch their registration back before then.

Some also report having their registration status changed to absentee without their permission; if they show up at the polls without a ballot they may be unable to vote.

The Times randomly interviewed 46 of the hundreds of voters whose election records show they were recently re-registered as Republicans by YPM, and 37 of them -- more than 80% -- said that they were misled into making the change or that it was done without their knowledge.

Lydia Laws, a Palm Springs retiree, said she was angry to find recently that her registration had been switched from Democrat to Republican.

Laws said the YPM staffer who instructed her to identify herself on a petition as a Republican assured her that it was a formality, and that her registration would not be changed. Later, a card showed up in the mail saying she had joined the GOP.

"I said, 'No, no, no. That's not right,' " Laws said.

It all sounds familiar to Beverly Hill, a Democrat and the former election supervisor in Florida's Alachua County. About 200 voters -- mostly college students -- were unwittingly registered as Republicans there in 2004 by YPM staffers using the same tactic, Hill said.

"It is just incredible that this can keep happening election after election," she said.

YPM and Republican Party officials said they were surprised by the complaints. The officials said the signature gatherers wear shirts bearing the Republican symbol, an elephant -- a contention disputed by some of the voters interviewed.

Every person registered signs an affidavit confirming they voluntarily joined the GOP, party leaders said.

"It does the state party no good to register people in a party they don't want to be in," said Hector Barajas, communications director for the California Republican Party.

The document that voters thought was an initiative petition has no legal implications at all. YPM founder Mark Jacoby said the petition was clearly labeled as a "plebiscite," which does nothing more than show public support.

He also said that plainclothes investigators for Secretary of State Debra Bowen, a Democrat, have conducted multiple spot checks and told his firm it is doing nothing improper.

"Every time, they gave us a thumbs-up," Jacoby said. "People are not being tricked."

But Nicole Winger, a spokeswoman for the secretary of state's office, said the agency "does not give an OK or seal of approval to voter registration groups."

Two years ago, Orange County Dist. Atty. Tony Rackauckas charged 12 workers for a petitioning firm hired by the local Republican Party with fraudulently registering voters as Republican.

Democratic registration drives have also caught the attention of law enforcement officials.

The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN, a national nonprofit that recruits mostly Democratic voters, is being investigated by the FBI for filing fake registrations in multiple states during the current presidential campaign.

In April, eight ACORN officials in St. Louis pleaded guilty to federal election fraud for submitting false registration cards in 2006.

In California, signature-gatherers are prohibited by law from misleading voters about what they are signing.

"You can't lie to someone to procure their signature," said Richard L. Hasen, a professor at Loyola Law School in Los Angeles who specializes in election law.

Civil rights activists recently filed a lawsuit in Arizona accusing YPM of deceiving residents to get signatures for a ballot measure that would have prohibited affirmative action by that state. The lawsuit was dropped after supporters of the measure pulled it from the ballot.

In Massachusetts, former YPM worker Angela McElroy testified at a legislative hearing in 2004 that she had tricked voters into signing a ballot measure to ban gay marriage. She said she told voters they were signing in favor of a measure to allow alcoholic drinks to be sold in supermarkets.

YPM's Jacoby said McElroy was on loan to another signature-gathering company at the time the alleged deception took place.

Jose Aguilera, a 48-year-old math teacher from Ventura whose registration was recently changed from Democrat to Republican, said he signed the child-molester petition outside an Albertsons supermarket.

He said he was asked to sign a second document but not told that it would change his registration.

"Somehow the guy pulled out something else and I signed it," he said.

Ashcraft, the pet-clinic manager, said she knew that she could still vote in November for whichever presidential candidate she supports -- in her case, Democrat Barack Obama.

"I just don't like being lied to," she said.

Janett Lemaire, 54, said she told a signature-gatherer in the small Riverside County town of Desert Edge, "I've been a Democrat all my life and I want to stay that way."

But the man "said this has nothing to do with changing how you are registered," Lemaire said. "Then I get a notice in the mail saying I am a Republican. . . . I was very angry."



FOR THE RECORD
Voter registration: An article in Saturday's California section, about voters who said they were duped by a company called Young Political Majors into registering as Republicans, incorrectly referred to eight workers for the Assn. of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN, who pleaded guilty to election fraud in Missouri this year. They were temporary employees trained by ACORN to register voters, not officials of the nonprofit group.


Advocate
 
  2  
Fri 28 Aug, 2009 12:41 pm
I know for a fact that many Reps worked at getting a census. Nothing could be scarier than that. We know that they lie and cheat, and send out an untold number of bogus libelous emails.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 28 Aug, 2009 01:48 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
DTOM, That reveals the hypocrisy of okie et al who continues to degrade ACORN as some liberal organization that's out to defraud the voting in this country - while the republicans have been caught doing worse things by fraud to register voters as republicans.

Typical conservatives who fail to see their own sins while there is ample evidence that they are worse at fraudulent political activities in this country.
DontTreadOnMe
 
  2  
Fri 28 Aug, 2009 02:51 pm
@cicerone imposter,
haha! yeah... i doubt that the fella that registered me as a Libertarian on Hollywood Boulevard in 1976 was an actual officer of much of anything.

and see, that's where people aren't thinking. usually the people who are doing registrations (for just about anything) are students or slackers. they get paid either a minimum or by the ticket or both.

so, it's not hard to figure out that more turn ins equals more cash to the registrar.

"80 registrations today, babe! tonight it's extra top ramen and beers!!"
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 28 Aug, 2009 03:05 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
Yeah, I learned that quite some time ago that orgs like ACORN pay their people by volume, so they end up registering fictitious people, dead people, and comic characters.

Conservatives try their best to make ACORN out to be some kind of liberal organization that defrauds the voter registration process, but it's the responsibility of every state's secretary of voter registration to make sure all voters have a legitimate address and signature on file.

Mickey Mouse will never get a pass, but conservatives believe he will be voting.

There's no cure for stupid.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Fri 28 Aug, 2009 03:23 pm
sorry folks... forgot to post the link to the L.A. Times article above...


http://articles.latimes.com/2008/oct/18/local/me-fraud18

0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Sat 29 Aug, 2009 07:03 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

The scary thing is that ACORN is going to be using the same kinds of people to conduct the 2010 U.S. Census. Doesn't it give you a warm fuzzy feeling of security and happiness to know that the integrity of that process is in such good hands?

Its all designed to skew the census in favor of Democrats, Foxfyre.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 29 Aug, 2009 07:08 pm
@okie,
okie, You continue to show your ignorance. It doesn't matter how the census ends up showing party affiliation; it's the vote that counts. In the first place, it's how they are registered in the county registrar, and secondly how they vote during the election. What the census shows doesn't have much value.

You need to get out in the sun more.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Sat 29 Aug, 2009 07:11 pm
@okie,
Quote:
Its all designed to skew the census in favor of Democrats, Foxfyre.
yes of course and aliens will be arriving in bumfuck oklahoma any minute now.
okie
 
  0  
Sat 29 Aug, 2009 07:25 pm
@dyslexia,
Sorry I don't agree with you, dys, but ACORN is one corrupt organization. Believe it.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Sat 29 Aug, 2009 07:33 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I think you are forgetting another issue, its called "congressional districts." If the populations are skewed, it affects how the lines are drawn, etc., etc.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 29 Aug, 2009 07:37 pm
@okie,
Yeah, and please advise us which congressional districts have been impacted by a fraudulent census.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Sat 29 Aug, 2009 07:52 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Its all designed to skew the census in favor of Democrats, Foxfyre.


i don't think they can, bro. at least i don't remember ever being asked, or remember my folks being asked about party by the census bureau.

2010?? jeezzz... where is the time going????
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 29 Aug, 2009 08:06 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
DTOM, They don't ask about party affiliation; it's about the population based on race, age, and education (I believe), and how many in the household.
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Sat 29 Aug, 2009 08:29 pm
@cicerone imposter,
didn't think so. it's all basic demo stuff, as you pointed out, along with gender, adults, children. pretty boring.

i'm a little surprised that people are getting all uptight about the census. it wasn't that long ago that people were insisting that we must know exactly who did and who didn't belong here and who they were.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 29 Aug, 2009 08:36 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
Any census are only estimates. The mobility of the populace, births and deaths, make any census non-static.

Who would have thought during the 2000 census that many of the communities that grew so fast during the housing boom years could end up as ghost towns in just a couple of years. Michigan is a good case in point; when the auto industry went kaput, people moved out of Michigan.

Texas, Arizona, and California were magnets for illegal immigrants from South America. They all impacted our schools and social services, but when this recession hit, even they could not afford to stay here without jobs, and the flow of illegals slowed down to the point many have returning home.

0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  2  
Sat 29 Aug, 2009 08:47 pm
@DontTreadOnMe,
I disagree. The census does determine how political districts are redrawn. And federal money flows based on the census results.
The question, the issue we are talking about here, is whether or not special interest groups have the ability to rig the census.
I don't think so. But others may differ.
 

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