Obama '08?

@rabel22,

rabel22 wrote:

This was not a emergency situation. The cop was checking identification and wether the man had a right to be in this residence. When he was showen Gates identification he should have left and gone about his bussiness. Everything after the proof of identity and residence was the policemans fault. And it has been pointed that the national guard is a state militia, not federal army untill the president declares a national emergency and federalizes it.

The police did not know it was not an emergency situation. They were responding to a reported presumed breaking and entering. What if the perpetrators were still in the house and had Gates at gunpoint? I can't think of any competent cop that would not have considered that possibility. So yes, once ID was presented, the next competent step would be to ask Gates to step outside. If he was under threat, that was the safest and most reasonable method to rescue and protect him.

And any normal person at that point would then thank the police for their timely response, assure them all was well, the police would tip their hats and be on their way. But that isn't the way it went down, and that was not the police officers' fault.

The police would have been charged with gross irresponsibility and negligence if they had not responded to the 911 call and Gates was in danger and/or harmed. And they would have been guilty of irresponsibility and negligence if they responded and still left him in danger.

4 Replies

@Foxfyre,

"Presumed" is the key word here. After Gates provided his ID, there was no further need to proceed to the next step.

All Crowley had to ask was "is this your home?"

End of presumed crime.

1 Reply

@rabel22,

Quote:

And it has been pointed that the national guard is a state militia, not federal army untill the president declares a national emergency and federalizes it.

If you are correct, what authority did the President or the Attorney General have to order the use of them?
And I notice you dont dispute the fact that the troops were used, only who ordered their use.

Since it was a federal operation (FBI, ATF) then the NG troops had to be there at the request or at the order of the federal authorities, that means the President.

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

Strawman B.S.
C.I., how are you at math. I am almost as good at math as I am at spelling.

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Yeah, but what if there was a criminal with a gun who told Gates to "get the cops out of here our I'll kill you" on the other side of the door.

The officer asked Gates to step outside because of this possibility.

3 Replies

@rabel22,

rabel22 wrote:

Strawman B.S.
C.I., how are you at math. I am almost as good at math as I am at spelling.

No strawman at all.

You agree that it is ignorant to automatically assume an Asian is good at math? Or conversely to assume that anybody would not be good at math?

Then why would you not agree that it is equally ignorant to automatically assume racial profiling and/or police misconduct in the Gates' incident?

0 Replies

@maporsche,

Before he went that far, all Crowley had to do was ask if Gates was the owner or renter of the house. That could have been accomplished from outside the door.

Yes, I'm Professor Gates of Harvard College.

End of discussion.

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

No. The national guard is under the control of the governor. The president has to declare a national emergency in order to activate the guard under the federals. Did he request that the governor allow the use of the guard or order it.

2 Replies

@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

Yeah, but what if there was a criminal with a gun who told Gates to "get the cops out of here our I'll kill you" on the other side of the door.

The officer asked Gates to step outside because of this possibility.

interesting statement of fact, you know this how?

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

And if there was a criminal with a gun to his back, and the cop turned around and left, and Gates ended up dead or beaten, who would you blame then?

0 Replies

@dyslexia,

Hasn't it been reported that that is standard police procedure when dealing with a B&E case?

1 Reply

@rabel22,

Foxfire, The math question was in referance to an earlier post. Not meant as an insult and not aimed at you in the first place.

0 Replies

@Foxfyre,

They almost made it into an "emergency situation" by assuming the person inside the house was "not" his home.

Crowley: "Is this your home?" Gates: "Yes, I'm Professor (Dr) Gates of Harvard College."

Another false alarm of many false alarms responded by the police and fire departments.

1 Reply

@Foxfyre,

This is not about race, this is about the relationship between the cops and the citizens. Cops routinely impose their dominance upon the citizens, they claim that they must in order to do their jobs effectively. They claim that to not create a D/s dynamic puts their lives at increased risk. If they are correct (and I think that they are) then what do we do with citizens who refuse to submit?

I think that physical restraint is the first step, and only if submission does not follow should charges be filed.

1 Reply

@rabel22,

rabel, Math is not one of my strong suits, but I did study some differential calculus in college, and worked as an accountant in my profession.

0 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

Another false alarm of many false alarms responded by the police and fire departments.

TRue.
But, until the authorities have determined that every call MUST be treated as an emergency situation.

1 Reply

@rabel22,

Quote:

Did he request that the governor allow the use of the guard or order it.

I dont know.
But either way, the feds had no right to use the NG to conduct the raid.
And they sure as hell didnt have the right to have foreign troops there, even as "observers".

0 Replies

@mysteryman,

It stopped being an 'emergency' when Professor Gates produced his ID. The cops went further than that.

I'd be mad as hell if the cops came to my home and assumed I was a burglar rather than the owner of my home - and treated me as a criminal.

I'm innocent all the way up to my criminal behavior if any. Getting mad and cussing is not criminal behavior. There is no crime that will be prosecuted in a court of law in the US.

3 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

I'd be mad as hell if the cops came to my home and assumed I was a burglar rather than the owner of my home - and treated me as a criminal.

who would your anger be directed towards, the one who made the report of a possible crime or the one who investigated the report? If you took your anger out on the cop then you would be in the wrong in my opinion. If you made any statements or any actions that indicated that you might be a threat to the health of the cop then the cop should put you into cuffs until you came to your senses.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

I am not argueing about whether or not the cops overreacted.
For the record, I think BOTH sides overreacte.
But, that is based solely on the news reports.
Neither you nor I were there, so we will never know what happened.
I have heard reports that state the officer left his radio open, so that every word of the confrontation was broadcast.
If that is true, those recordings will be the best version of the facts.

I am simply saying that there are many reasons where authorities can order someone out of their homes, for legitimate reasons.

You and a few others are the ones saying that it CANNOT be done, for any reason.
That is what I am disagreeing with.

0 Replies

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