Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 04:13 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

Thanks for the John McWhorter link, Cyclo.


I thought it provided a good perspective on who we are talking about.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 04:16 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
The more I think about it, what is the point of Gates yelling repeatedly "Is this how a black man get's treated in America?" amoung the other insults to the cop and his mother, unless he was TRYING to incite a response from either the crowd, who was gathering outside his home, or from the officers?

I mean, I can understand if he's angry, although I think the officers were following protocol at least from what I can see, but why the insults and the yelling towards the officers and the crowd. Is this guy normally known to be a hot-head?
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 04:18 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I don't think his reaction was justified in the slightest (ok, maaayybbe slightly).

I can emphathize with his feelings, but that does NOT give him the right to provoke an officer or the crowd surrounding them.
ebrown p
 
  2  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 04:22 pm
@maporsche,
Quote:
but that does NOT give him the right to provoke an officer


Of course you have the right to "provoke" an officer. I have the right to insult, disparage or even yell at anyone-- especially if they come into my house uninvited, This is what the first amendment is for.

In a democracy, the police are supposed to be "protecting and serving" the citizenry, not the other way around.

I usually have a great deal of sympathy for unions... in this case, for the union to get involved to this extent is about as ridiculous as I could imagine.

All because this cop had his feelings hurt.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 04:25 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
He also reported the cop acting in a threatening and insulting manner during the entire episode, something the cop doesn't have the right to do.


This may or may not be true, none of us know.
We werent there, so we are all making judgements without having all the facts.

But if the cop doesnt have the right to be insulting, why did Gates have the right?
Just because he was in his own home doesnt give him the right.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 04:25 pm
@ebrown p,
You have the ability to provoke an officer, but it's obvious that the law allows the officer to arrest you on disorderly conduct (getting charged/convicted of the crime is another matter, but the arrest appears to be allowed regardless).

And I think it's still in dispute that he went in the home uninvited isn't it?
ebrown p
 
  2  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 04:27 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:

But if the cop doesnt have the right to be insulting, why did Gates have the right?


Because the cop is acting in a professional capacity-- and he is being paid (by Gates and the rest of us) to act respectfully.

If I am rude to customers at work, I will get fired-- even when they deserve it.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 04:27 pm
@ebrown p,
And I sort of meant "right" relating to decency, not actual rights as established by the constitution.

Sorry for my poor choice of words.
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 04:29 pm
@maporsche,
Quote:
it's obvious that the law allows the officer to arrest you on disorderly conduct


This is not obvious at all. If the police officer abuses his power, a citizen has rights-- including the ability to sue the city.

It sounds like Gates was willing to drop the matter-- but there are ways to respond when a police officer who abuses their power.

mysteryman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 04:29 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
I've seen and read about discrimination against blacks all my life. My bias comes from that experience;


So you admit you have no actual, first hand knowledge of it.
All you have is anecdotal evidence.

Using the rules you apply to everyone else, your "evidence" proves nothing and is meaningless.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 04:30 pm
@mysteryman,
I want to hear the tapes.

I'm curious who's side the crowd outside supports more...the Gates version: "I politely asked the officer to leave the premises."....or the officer's version "he then made a nasty joke about my mother."

I'm paraphrasing of course.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 04:32 pm
@ebrown p,
Did you read the law that Cyclops posted.

It is PAINFULLY obvious that the law is written a way that almost anything can be perceived as "disorderly conduct". The officer can arrest on those grounds. The DA then has to decide if the crime is worth pursuing.



Does this officer have any blemishes on his record? From what I have heard they officer is considered a pretty stand-up guy.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 04:36 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
They don't remember the Rodney King treatment by the LAPD that ended up creating a riot. Somebody with a camera happened to tape the whole incident, and even then whites were in support of the police.

An innocent man gets beaten with batons by the police that ends up creating a riot for police brutality against an innocent man, and they still don't get the message.

And they never will.


Do you really want to use that as an example.

You have forgotten that Rodney King was speeding, he ran when the cops tried to pull him over, when they did get him stopped he resisted arrest.

He was high on Meth, he fought with the police, he refused to comply when they told him to get down.
After the cops shot him with tasers, he still refused to go down, and started fighting them.
They used the appropriate force to take him down.

They overreacted when they continued to hit him AFTER he was down.
But, as long as he refused to go down, they did what was required, legal, and appropriate.

And I suggest you ride along with cops yourself and see what really happens on the street, like you suggested someone else do.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 04:39 pm
@maporsche,
The officer by his very presence was not justified for any abuse or to provoke the citizen when no crime has been observed.

Mr Gates asked the officer for his ID/badge which was refused.

Refusal to show his badge or police ID made it tantamount to provocation - for any citizen in this country.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 04:42 pm
@cicerone imposter,
FYI,
The badge number is clearly visible on a cops badge, and every cop wears a nametag.
All Gates had to do was look.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 04:44 pm
@ebrown p,
ebrown p wrote:



Of course you have the right to "provoke" an officer. I have the right to insult, disparage or even yell at anyone-- especially if they come into my house uninvited, This is what the first amendment is for.



But of course you have the right to freely give law enforcement
officers additional reasons to arrest your dumb ass for being a tool.

You should smart off to LEO's every single chance you get... good luck Wink
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 04:52 pm
@H2O MAN,
Bad cop! No donuts for you.
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 05:01 pm
@ebrown p,



Bad professor! - No tenure for you!


Bad president! - No 2nd term for you!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2008/03/31/PH2008033100939.jpg
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 05:06 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

Quote:
He also reported the cop acting in a threatening and insulting manner during the entire episode, something the cop doesn't have the right to do.


This may or may not be true, none of us know.
We werent there, so we are all making judgements without having all the facts.

But if the cop doesnt have the right to be insulting, why did Gates have the right?
Just because he was in his own home doesnt give him the right.


Actually, it does. Completely. Because the cop's authority only exists to carry out the Law, not to respond to insults given by private citizens - in their own home, no less.

Within your own home, you can be as insulting as you want to whoever you want. The cop also has that right - in his own home. He does not have that right within someone else's home, and he certainly does not have the right to exercise his authority as a cop because someone is being insulting to him.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 24 Jul, 2009 05:08 pm
Now we know why Obama said the Cambridge cops acted "stupidly" and why he seems to have found the cops guilty, without knowing all the facts.

It seems Obama fought his own private war with them (for 17 years), and finally surrendered just before he announced he was running for President.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17516764/

Quote:
BOSTON - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama got more than an education when he attended Harvard Law School in the late 1980s. He also got a healthy stack of parking tickets, most of which he never paid.

The Illinois Senator shelled out $375 in January - two weeks before he officially launched his presidential campaign - to finally pay for 15 outstanding parking tickets and their associated late fees.

The story was first reported Wednesday by The Somerville News.



Now if the cops were as racist as some of you like to claim, wouldnt they have arrested Obama?
After all, a judge could have issued a bench warrant if he had wanted to.
 

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