Yankee
 
  0  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 08:12 am
@McGentrix,
Quote:
Asking for ID is a reasonable request, but legally would be an unreasonable demand. Gates would have been well within his rights to say “**** you... Get the **** off my property, and don’t come back without a warrant.”
Shocked

Amazing OCCUM actually believes that!!
H2O MAN
 
  -2  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 08:12 am
@snood,
snood wrote:

no reasonable cop acting with reasonable justification (who had 5 other cops as back-up) would need to HANDCUFF a 60+ year old man who needs a cane to walk.


The you don't understand protocol and procedure... you are not alone though, Obama has the same problem.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 08:16 am
@McGentrix,
McG, Your POV is strictly from a white mans' which doesn't understand how blacks in America has lived - even today - where police actions towards blacks goes overboard. Sorry to say, but it's based on ignorance. Many blacks are stopped by police - not because they have committed any crime, but because they are black, and oftentimes because they are driving a luxury car. Wrap that idea into your brain if you can, because you have no idea what victimization is in America for blacks.
maporsche
 
  2  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 08:20 am
@snood,
Don't police officers handcuff everyone they arrest? Madoff was handcuffed; I doubt he was too much of a physical threat.

McGentrix
 
  1  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 08:22 am
@maporsche,
Yes, for their safety and the safety of the arrested party.

They hand cuffed him with his hands in front and allowed him the use of a cane.

Yankee
 
  1  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 08:26 am
@cicerone imposter,
BULLSHIT EXCUSE and an old tired one at that.

Skin pigmentation is not a license to verbally abuse a Police Officer, nor is it a license to disobey an officers request while the officer is investigating a possible crime in progress.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 08:27 am
@Yankee,
Of coarse it's an old tired one - for you! You're white without understanding the history of this country.

Civil rights were fought long and hard by blacks and whites, and most of the lynchings towards them were - white! Even today, usually at crowds organized by conservatives, they still have hate speeches against minorities, and even against our president simply because he is black. The latest is the belief that Obama is a Kenyan even though FACTCHECK and many media have produced his Hawaiian birth certificate.

There's no cure for ignorance!
Yankee
 
  -1  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 08:35 am
@cicerone imposter,
Yes, your ignorance.

I am NOT WHITE!!!
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 08:40 am
@Yankee,
You come off as white in your perceptions of US history against blacks. I may have made a wrong assumption, but not about your racial bigotry.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 08:51 am
@Yankee,
Yankee wrote:

Quote:
Asking for ID is a reasonable request, but legally would be an unreasonable demand. Gates would have been well within his rights to say “**** you... Get the **** off my property, and don’t come back without a warrant.”
Shocked

Amazing OCCUM actually believes that!!


Well, some members have problems accepting that our laws are there for everybody's good and everybody should be expected to follow them. Occum has been known to believe the laws should be ignored for certain people. So, I talk to a local cop I know here to ask what he would have done. (He's family actually) He prudently said it would depend on the level of 'disorderly conduct' whether he would have made the arrest, but a cop cannot just let people ignore a direct order from the cop or else a cop has no chance of establishing order in a difficult situation. So, if the police gave Gates a direct reasonable order in a situation and he refused to follow it, and was behaving in a disorderly manner, then yes, there was justification to arrest and cuff him.

As for the ID issue. A cop responds to a 911 call of a suspected burglary. He arrives and finds a male inside the house. He asks the person to identify himself and the person should be allowed to just say no and the cop just shrugs, says okay, and walks off? Man if that's the case, burglary will become a lot more lucrative and involve a lot less risk huh?

To ask the person to step outside is also standard procedure in case a burglar is behind the door with a gun aimed at the person's head.

Did the cops overreact at any point in this scenario? I don't know. I wasn't there. But it is for damn sure that Gates did.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 08:55 am
Meanwhile, the healthcare issue and that absolutely galling press conference the President recently gave are taking their toll. Rasmussen has Obama below 50% approval for the first time ever.

Quote:
Friday, July 24, 2009
The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Friday shows that 30% of the nation's voters now Strongly Approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President. Thirty-eight percent (38%) Strongly Disapprove giving Obama a Presidential Approval Index rating of -8 (see trends).

Just 25% believe that the economic stimulus package has helped the economy.

The Presidential Approval Index is calculated by subtracting the number who Strongly Disapprove from the number who Strongly Approve. It is updated daily at 9:30 a.m. Eastern (sign up for free daily e-mail update). Updates also available on Twitter.

Overall, 49% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President's performance. Today marks the first time his overall approval rating has ever fallen below 50% among Likely Voters nationwide. Fifty-one percent (51%) disapprove.

Eighty-three percent (83%) of Democrats continue to approve of the President’s performance while 80% of Republicans disapprove. Among those not affiliated with either major party, 37% offer a positive assessment. The President earns approval from 51% of women and 47% of men.

These updates are based upon nightly telephone interviews and reported on a three-day rolling average basis. Most of the interviews for today’s update were completed before the President’s nationally televised press conference on Wednesday night. The first update based entirely upon interviews conducted after the press conference will be released on Sunday.

It is important to remember that the Rasmussen Reports job approval ratings are based upon a sample of likely voters. Some other firms base their approval ratings on samples of all adults. President Obama’s numbers are always several points higher in a poll of adults rather than likely voters. That’s because some of the President’s most enthusiastic supporters, such as young adults, are less likely to turn out to vote.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/daily_presidential_tracking_poll
0 Replies
 
Yankee
 
  1  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 08:57 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
You come off as white in your perceptions of US history against blacks. I may have made a wrong assumption, but not about your racial bigotry.


So who is the bigot?

Without having facts, you came to an incorrect conclusion. How "Obama'esque" of you!
Foxfyre
 
  0  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 08:58 am
@Yankee,
Laughing
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 09:02 am
@McGentrix,
Correct!
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  2  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 09:05 am
@cicerone imposter,
So all non-white people need to have the same perception of US History against blacks?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 09:12 am
@McGentrix,
Quote:


A report of a possible break in is probable cause. Having probable cause allows the police to enter a home and question any suspects on the property. It would have been in Gates interest to have been understanding that the police were looking out for his interests, shown his ID and thanked the cop as he left. Instead, he let the weight of the racial chip on his shoulder burden his judgment and he decided to instead create a situation where he was arrested. Just like the office would have done with any other person.

Gates rights were not violated in any way. He escalated a situation to a point where the officer arrested him. had he acted in a manner in line with his position and intelligence, no one would have even heard about this.


Horseshit. After Gates showed the cop his ID, the cop no longer had a single reason to remain in the home, and he certainly didn't have any reason to arrest Gates - even if Gates was being quite rude within his own home. It isn't against the law to be rude to cops within your own home. The officer didn't arrest him for b&e, he arrested him for causing a disturbance or something similar. There was absolutely no reason to do this at all, he wasn't harming anyone or disturbing society. The cop was just pissed at him.

The really interesting thing about this whole case, is watching the Conservatives line up behind the White Guy in order to defend him from charges of racism. It is an important part of the Conservative mantra, that whites are always innocent when accused of racism and that Blacks use charges of racism to get ahead in society. It really reflects some unsavory underlying beliefs on the part of you guys; that whites are really some oppressed minorities, instead of the overwhelmingly powerful majority group in this country.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  0  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 09:14 am
@Yankee,
Yankee wrote:

Quote:
Asking for ID is a reasonable request, but legally would be an unreasonable demand. Gates would have been well within his rights to say “**** you... Get the **** off my property, and don’t come back without a warrant.”


Are you too that stupid?

What you are suggesting is this:

1) Someone calls 911 to report a possible breakin at 123 Main St. with 2 people jamming their way in the front door.

2) Cops arrive at the scene, 1 of the burglers answers the door while the other has a gun to the actual homeowners head in the rear of the home.

3) Cops ask the burgler for ID.

4) Burgler says FU, I live here, get off my lawn, and I will not give you ID.

And you expect the cops to just say OK and LEAVE????

That is AMAZING!!!!!!



Gates showed him his ID, you ******* maroon. He then told the cop to get out of his house, which the cop didn't do. He also reported the cop acting in a threatening and insulting manner during the entire episode, something the cop doesn't have the right to do.

Cycloptichorn
Yankee
 
  2  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 09:18 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
The really interesting thing about this whole case, is watching the Conservatives line up behind the White Guy in order to defend him from charges of racism. It is an important part of the Conservative mantra, that whites are always innocent when accused of racism and that Blacks use charges of racism to get ahead in society. It really reflects some unsavory underlying beliefs on the part of you guys; that whites are really some oppressed minorities, instead of the overwhelmingly powerful majority group in this country.


That is a load of bunk.

You apparently refuse to accept the possibility that Mr. Gates became quite unruly and agitated and initially refused to co-operate with the police officers request.

While I agree the officer may have over-reacted to Mr. Gates irrational behavior, I will not accept your conclusion that he was arrested because he was black.

It is your attitude and Obamas attitude that is fueling the racism that you seem to feel is prevalent in today's society.

Yankee
 
  3  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 09:20 am
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
Gates showed him his ID, you ******* maroon


That was not in Occums post.

I think you need to grow up.
0 Replies
 
Yankee
 
  1  
Fri 24 Jul, 2009 09:24 am
The White House today said that President Obama "regrets" the furor his remarks on the arrest of his friend Henry Louis Gates Jr. have caused, as the lawyer for the cop who arrested the black Harvard University professor said the officer may sue Gates for defamation.

"I think he would regret if he realized how much of a overall distraction and obsession it would be," White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs told reporters.

When asked if the president would apologize to the officer, as some police unions have demanded, Gibbs would only say that the president understands that the job police officers do is hard and that he has great respect for them.

Gibbs added that he did not expect Obama to have anything else to say about the incident.

"I think he's said most of what he's going to say on it," Gibbs said.

Alan McDonald, who represents Sgt. James Crowley, said the veteran cop who teaches a racial profiling class for rookie police officers has not ruled out filing a defamation of character or libel lawsuit.

"He is exploring all of his options,'' McDonald told ABC News.

Though charges were dropped, Gates has loudly asserted his arrest was a result of racial profiling.

The arrest and subsequent storm of racially charged comments has enveloped the White House after Obama said on Wednesday the Cambridge police acted "stupidly" in arresting his friend, Gates, who is a prominent black scholar.

Police organizations and others across the country are lashing out at Obama for calling out the Cambridge Police Department.

"It's not a case of racial profiling," said NPR analyst Juan Williams on "Good Morning America."

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=8163051&page=1
0 Replies
 
 

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