dyslexia
 
  1  
Tue 12 May, 2009 01:32 pm
an argument between advocate and okie, the epitome of irony.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Tue 12 May, 2009 01:36 pm
@okie,
That's kind of an interesting explanation, okie. It may even be correct, but anyway, it's something to think about.
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Tue 12 May, 2009 01:42 pm
AP has a story within the last hour re trustees' of SSAE and Medicare analysis of the strength (or lack thereof) of those funds. It ain't pretty.
Thanks to the recession, much less money is flowing in. Job losses and underemployment - especially from workers who had been making decent wages - are impacting hard.
Over at SS, trustees expect more benefits will be paid out than comes in by 2016, which is a year sooner than expected a year ago. The fund will be depleted, they say, by 2037, 4 years earlier than projected.
Medicare is in worse shape, with more in benefits going out vs collections as soon as this year. Insolvency could come -if nothing is changed- by 2017, 2 years earlier than projected a year ago.
spendius
 
  1  
Tue 12 May, 2009 01:45 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Your ignorance is over-powering


It's okay to say that to a young lady c.i. With a "my dear" added on of course.

As long as she hasn't majored in an 'ology.

But "over-powering" to a chap is a bit ignorant. "seemingly limitless" is much better. Or even "astounding".

But "overpowering"!! Good gracious.

You told me that I don't understand how your government works. Is that what you tell everybody?

0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Tue 12 May, 2009 01:50 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:

That's kind of an interesting explanation, okie. It may even be correct, but anyway, it's something to think about.

Now thats an interesting post, roger. It might even tell me something?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 12 May, 2009 01:52 pm
@realjohnboy,
rjb, Glad to see we're on the same page on this issue; when income tax and FICA revenue drops, and our government fails to reduce expenditure, they "borrow" from the social security trust fund while paying out more to retirees and medicare beneficiaries. When our government estimated 2042 as the year the social security trust fund will be depleted, that was when employment was at "reasonable" levels.

Our government must do two things to bring in line revenue and expenditure; 1) increase the tax rates for these benefits, and 2) increase the age when benefits begin.

Without these actions, our future for social security and Medicare will only get worse.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Tue 12 May, 2009 01:56 pm
@realjohnboy,
realjohnboy wrote:

AP has a story within the last hour re trustees' of SSAE and Medicare analysis of the strength (or lack thereof) of those funds. It ain't pretty.
Thanks to the recession, much less money is flowing in. Job losses and underemployment - especially from workers who had been making decent wages - are impacting hard.
Over at SS, trustees expect more benefits will be paid out than comes in by 2016, which is a year sooner than expected a year ago. The fund will be depleted, they say, by 2037, 4 years earlier than projected.
Medicare is in worse shape, with more in benefits going out vs collections as soon as this year. Insolvency could come -if nothing is changed- by 2017, 2 years earlier than projected a year ago.
rjb, your observation of what happens in a recession points out one huge effect, that tax revenues and tax rates are not directly linked, it all depends upon the economic activity. Tax revenues do not occur in a vaccuum, with nothing else besides tax rates involved. And tax rates impact the economy. Such a simple and obvious effect has been denied by many on this forum, but I think a good look around today at what is happening would be highly instructive to anyone that doesn't believe it still.

All of this explains why even Obama knows it is unwise to raise taxes right now, not until the economy recovers. If they had no effect, the answer to declining tax revenues and social security / medicare revenues could be solved with the stroke of a pen, simply raise the taxing rates. Such as take 20% of everybody's earned income instead of the current 15.3% or whatever it is, to fund social security / medicare. In the future, take 30% or 50%, no problem, right?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Tue 12 May, 2009 02:13 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:

We have experienced much the same phenomenon among at least three different couples, all close relatives, with whom we keep in regular contact. On almost all issues, we share common views and values, but somewhere along the way they got it into their heads that it is the Democrats who care about their concerns and that Republicans are the big money, selfish, hateful party.


Based on your A2K record, you probably constantly accuse them of personal insults and changing the subject every time they try to discuss it with you. So I certainly am not surprised to hear this.

I think it's also likely that the reason they think the Republicans are a selfish party, is their constant appeals to Greed as an over-arcing principle; their unwillingness to extend support to those who are hard on their luck; their continual pro-big business and pro-rich positions on taxation and public policy; their anti-environmentalism; and their intolerance towards minorities, gays, foreigners, atheists, intellectuals, and anyone living on either coast. The Republican party is nothing but a giant stream of negativity these days and there's just not much to attract someone to it.

You should try looking at things from an objective point of view if you want to understand why others feel differently than you.

Cycloptichorn
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Tue 12 May, 2009 02:15 pm
@okie,
Quote:

I have a theory that America is basically much more conservative than it votes,


You Conservatives have convinced yourself that this is true, but it isn't. The never-ending path of Liberalism here in the US has continued pretty much unabated for two centuries now and shows no sign of stopping.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  0  
Tue 12 May, 2009 02:20 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Yeah, the Democrats are the picture of tolerance, cyclops. Witness their hatred of Bush, hatred of all things conservative. And your party of tolerance is so tolerant of an unwanted child, isn't it, cyclops? You've redefined alot of other words, why not "tolerance?"
old europe
 
  1  
Tue 12 May, 2009 02:23 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:
And tax rates impact the economy. Such a simple and obvious effect has been denied by many on this forum


I haven't come across a post where somebody was denying the impacts of tax rates on the economy.

I think what has been denied by posters on this forum is the overly simplistic idea that tax cuts will always lead to increased economic activity and therefore increased tax revenue.

It's a reasonable assumption for a certain economy/tax rate scenario, but the way it's been presented often (not by you, in this post, though) is that's just the way it is.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 12 May, 2009 02:27 pm
@old europe,
Bush promised jobs with his tax cuts, but his so-called "job creation" was the worst since Hoover, and Americans are now losing millions of jobs (and homes). More Bush-type tax cuts should put our economy into a depression. Something else these conservatives fail to understand is our history; democratic presidents did much better for "all" Americans in terms of job creation and sharing of the wealth. During Bush's eight years, most Americans lost purchasing power, lost their homes, and their health insurance.

Conservatives are masochists; they love pain, and they want more tax cuts for the wealthy.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Tue 12 May, 2009 02:36 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

Yeah, the Democrats are the picture of tolerance, cyclops. Witness their hatred of Bush, hatred of all things conservative. And your party of tolerance is so tolerant of an unwanted child, isn't it, cyclops? You've redefined alot of other words, why not "tolerance?"


Don't be ridiculous, Okie. Someone tries to point out the problems with Republicans and all you can do is attack them back. Why not address the validity of what I wrote.

Earlier, you also wrote that you feel Dems vote and act out of emotion. That's pretty rich coming from you, Mr. 'I've got a bad feeling about Obama' himself. You vote based on emotion and make your political decisions based on emotion.

Your failure to look in the mirror and self-examine is the #1 reason why the Republican party is in the shitter today.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Tue 12 May, 2009 02:37 pm
Okie, just to focus on one of the many crazy things you said, you said that Bush tried to fix SS but was thwarted by the Dems. You must be referring to his effort to privatize part of SS. Even Bush admitted it would not fix SS, and it was such a bad idea that, for about the only time it happened, the Reps in congress said no.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Tue 12 May, 2009 02:51 pm

Based on Cyclotroll's A2K record... conditions in cold war Russia are what's needed here and now.

Cyclotroll's job will be handing out two squares of toilet paper to each citizen using public restrooms.

Change you can believe in.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  2  
Tue 12 May, 2009 02:55 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

roger wrote:

That's kind of an interesting explanation, okie. It may even be correct, but anyway, it's something to think about.

Now thats an interesting post, roger. It might even tell me something?


Something for me to think on. Feel free to elaborate on emotional voting vs. principles.
Foxfyre
 
  -1  
Tue 12 May, 2009 03:32 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:

okie wrote:

roger wrote:

That's kind of an interesting explanation, okie. It may even be correct, but anyway, it's something to think about.

Now thats an interesting post, roger. It might even tell me something?


Something for me to think on. Feel free to elaborate on emotional voting vs. principles.


Okay I'm confused. But you guys are tracking this, right?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 12 May, 2009 04:32 pm
@Advocate,
What Bush wanted to do with social security was to privatize it; and look what happened to the stock market since. Yeah, another great idea from Bush.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 12 May, 2009 04:33 pm
@realjohnboy,
Here's the story on social security and Medicare:

Quote:
Economic woes hurt Medicare, Social Security
By Donna Smith Donna Smith 1 hr 25 mins ago

WASHINGTON (Reuters) " The U.S. Social Security and Medicare retirement and health programs for the elderly will run short of funds sooner than previously thought because the recession has taken a toll on tax revenues, a government report released on Tuesday showed.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Tue 12 May, 2009 04:37 pm

Financial Health of Social Security, Medicare Worsens in Past Year
0 Replies
 
 

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