Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 1 Dec, 2006 07:03 am
Today, on World AIDS's Day, abit more from Obama and churches from the Chicago Tribune

http://i17.tinypic.com/30li2yb.jpg
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Fri 1 Dec, 2006 07:04 am
Quote:
Obama's mega-church visit spotlights waning `God gap'

By Mike Dorning
Washington Bureau
Published December 1, 2006


WASHINGTON -- There are many forums a potential Democratic presidential candidate ordinarily might pick for a high-profile public appearance: a union hall, a black church, perhaps a teachers convention.

Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.), curiously, has chosen a suburban California mega-church, Saddleback Church, home base of pastor Rick Warren, whose best-selling "The Purpose Driven Life" helped make him one of America's leading evangelical ministers.

Obama will be on stage Friday with one of the religious right's favorite politicians, Sen. Sam Brownback (R-Kan.), as he addresses more than 1,000 evangelical pastors and church leaders at a summit on AIDS organized by Warren.

Obama's appearance at the evangelical summit is but one hint of the gathering potential many political and religious analysts see for a recalibration of the political loyalties of churchgoing Americans.

"Large portions of the religious landscape are in motion," said John Green, a senior fellow at the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life.

Exit polls and voting returns in the midterm elections last month showed Democrats narrowing the "God gap" with Republicans among Americans who attend church at least once a week--even though the increased support came mostly from Roman Catholic and mainline Protestant voters rather than evangelicals.

Frequent churchgoers still favored Republican over Democratic congressional candidates 55 percent to 43 percent, according to exit polls. But the 12-point difference is down considerably from a 19-point gap in 2004 and a 20-point gap in 2002.

At the same time, a number of prominent evangelical leaders recently have sought to broaden the movement's political agenda from traditional cultural issues of opposition to abortion and gay rights that favor Republicans to include concerns more associated with Democrats, such as the environment, the AIDS epidemic and poverty.

The president-elect of the Christian Coalition, Rev. Joel Hunter, senior pastor of a central Florida mega-church, resigned this week because of conflicts with the group's board over his efforts to focus the group more on environmental and anti-poverty issues. Warren has been an especially powerful advocate for greater action on AIDS in Africa.

Other evangelical leaders, including Focus on the Family leader James Dobson, have fought vigorously to keep the movement focused on conservative cultural issues. But even some of them have grown discontented as years of GOP rule in Washington provided disappointing results in furthering the conservative social agenda.



Democrats reaching out

Democratic leaders, meanwhile, have been re-examining their party's relationship with religious voters, in some cases trying harder to incorporate the language of faith in their public rhetoric and broadening the party's views on abortion to include some determined abortion opponents among the new Democrats elected to Congress.

Obama has been a particularly powerful advocate among Democrats for reaching out to evangelicals and other religious Americans. He delivered a well-received speech in June advocating a greater role for religious values in political discourse and describing how his Christian faith helps shape his more liberal views.

The potential impact of Obama's appearance at Warren's church has not been lost on the religious right.

A group of prominent social conservatives and anti-abortion advocates sent an open letter to Warren this week demanding that he rescind the invitation to Obama, who supports abortion rights, on behalf of "millions of silent victims . . . of the policies of leaders like Senator Obama." Conservative evangelical Rob Schenck, president of the National Clergy Council, protested with an e-mail to reporters, asserting that Obama's views "represent the antithesis of biblical ethics and morality."

Saddleback responded with a statement acknowledging the "strong opposition" to Obama's participation but arguing that churches should reach out to new allies to fight AIDS.

"We do not expect all participants in the summit discussion to agree with all our evangelical beliefs," said a statement from the church. "The HIV/AIDS pandemic cannot be fought by evangelicals alone. It will take the cooperation of all."

The conservative leaders are right to recognize that Obama's presence among the evangelicals could have broader political ramifications, said Mark Silk, director of the Greenberg Center for the Study of Religion in Public Life at Trinity College in Hartford, Conn.

"This counts as a political move," Silk said. "It means he's not beyond the pale. We're willing to regard him as part of the conversation."



Threat to GOP's base

The status of evangelical Christians as a rock-solid pillar of the GOP coalition could be endangered if influential pastors signal that Democratic candidates also have something to offer, Silk said. Likewise, the cohesiveness of the group--even this year, 72 percent of evangelicals voted Republican--could be diluted if ministers preach a moral imperative on a broader range of issues.

"Lurking in the background are issues like poverty, the minimum wage and--who knows--health care might be around the corner. Evangelicals care about those issues like everyone else," Silk said.

Matthew Dowd, a top campaign strategist for Bush's 2004 election campaign and co-author of the book "Applebee's America," believes there is plenty of opportunity for Democrats to do well among the congregants of mega-churches such as Warren's Saddleback.

Based on exit polls from the 2004 election, Dowd estimates that about half of those who attend mega-churches identify themselves as Democrats or independents, not Republicans. And many of them are less interested in specific issues than in a principled leader who shows genuine faith and can rally them toward greater common purpose, he said.

"People's understandings of faith are not nearly as polarized as people in politics think they are," Dowd said.

He cites the success of Virginia's Democratic Gov. Tim Kaine in defending his opposition to the death penalty in a state where capital punishment is extremely popular. Kaine explained his position as an important moral teaching of his Catholic faith and gained support for taking a principled stand, Dowd said.

In any event, Obama signaled in his speech in June and will reinforce again Friday that he will make faith a part of his public persona.

"Democrats have not been able to use language in a faith-based way," Dowd said. "Somebody is going to see that conversation is not taking place in the right way, and Barack Obama is one person who recognizes that."
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Fri 1 Dec, 2006 09:56 am
snood wrote:
There's a rumor Hillary won't run if Obama does...

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2006/11/30/clinton_not_preparing_in_iowa.html

...if that's true and he runs, I hope she supports, and doesn't sabotage...
That would be an incredible shot in the arm for Obama because then he could benefit from Bill Clinton's seemingly ever increasing popularity.

Doesn't sound that far-fetched to me either, since the last poll I saw already had Obama second only to Rudy in popularity, followed by McCain, with Kerry coming in dead last.
Source- http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1295.xml?ReleaseID=990
Should be noted that almost half the respondents said they didn't know enough about Obama to rate him. Hillary came in at 9th, is well enough known by 99% for a rating, and still came in behind Rice( Shocked ), Lieberman, and Edwards. Interestingly, Bill Clinton came in 5th (after Condi, which I find hard to believe.)

From what I've read, it seems Hillary is way overmatched by Obama with the Independent Vote. (Big shock, right?)
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 1 Dec, 2006 09:59 am
Hey, that's the first poll I've seen where Obama is ahead of Hillary. It doesn't seem to be about presidential aspirations per se, but still. Coolness!

I like that article too, Walter. I know I've said it a zillion times but I just love that ability he has to impress and communicate with people across a really wide ideological swath.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Fri 1 Dec, 2006 11:13 am
You guys will remember when Just Wonders/Sierra Song tried to pull this bit of sleeze here...

Quote:
http://tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2006/nov/29/new_gop_attack_on_obama_his_name_is_hussein
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Fri 1 Dec, 2006 11:22 am
I applaud Barak for speaking at the mega church, a Christian mega church, however, I have to wonder if one of the repub candidates were to speak at that same church if the reaction would be so droolingly appreciative.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 1 Dec, 2006 11:49 am
Gosh, LoneStarMadam, you show a remarkable facility for missing the point...

A Republican addressing a mega church would be nothing new or interesting. The better analogy would be a Republican addressing a Planned Parenthood convention -- reaching out to a group that has generally been considered to be on "the other side," and communicating well with that group.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Fri 1 Dec, 2006 12:05 pm
Thanks, Soz.... I just didn't have the energy....
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Fri 1 Dec, 2006 02:22 pm
sozobe wrote:
Gosh, LoneStarMadam, you show a remarkable facility for missing the point...

A Republican addressing a mega church would be nothing new or interesting. The better analogy would be a Republican addressing a Planned Parenthood convention -- reaching out to a group that has generally been considered to be on "the other side," and communicating well with that group.

& you just performed an outstanding job of avoiding my question.
Bush went to Bob Jones U & spoke, the media & others went nuts, John McCaim went to BJU, harldy a peep from anybody. One is not a media darling, the other is. Yes, I know that McCain is a repub, but he goes along to get along, & has & will run with one of the most liberal senators in the senate, Feingold So long as it benefits me is McCains motto.
My point being, it depends on who is doing the deed
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 1 Dec, 2006 02:29 pm
Which is my point too. Laughing

If McCain addressed a Planned Parenthood convention, I'd be mighty impressed, and think better of him. Obama addressing Planned Parenthood is fine and all but not anything too remarkable.

Breaking out of stereotypes, doing real outreach towards voters who have felt alienated by a given party, that's what's noteworthy.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Fri 1 Dec, 2006 02:33 pm
It's my understanding that Barak may be a black american, this will never pass.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Fri 1 Dec, 2006 03:12 pm
sozobe wrote:
Which is my point too. Laughing

If McCain addressed a Planned Parenthood convention, I'd be mighty impressed, and think better of him. Obama addressing Planned Parenthood is fine and all but not anything too remarkable.

Breaking out of stereotypes, doing real outreach towards voters who have felt alienated by a given party, that's what's noteworthy.

I see now, sorry. Embarrassed
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 1 Dec, 2006 03:14 pm
And if an apparent rightwingnut responds graciously and honestly my opinion of her would go way up, too. ;-)

Glad it's been clarified.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Fri 1 Dec, 2006 03:15 pm
dyslexia wrote:
It's my understanding that Barak may be a black american, this will never pass.

So long as he is an American President & not an African-American President, why would anybody care that he's black? I don't care if a person is purple with green polka dots, if he/she is qualified for the job, ANY job, then that should be good enough.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Fri 1 Dec, 2006 04:18 pm
So if he got elected and everyone referred to him as the first African-American president (as we surely would forever), this terminology would be problematic for you?
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Fri 1 Dec, 2006 04:58 pm
snood wrote:
So if he got elected and everyone referred to him as the first African-American president (as we surely would forever), this terminology would be problematic for you?

Yes it would. He/she would be an American President, not an African President. I don't use the hyphonated terms for any ethnic or racial group, no Italian-American, Irish-American or whatever, because I believe that it causes even more devisevness.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Fri 1 Dec, 2006 04:59 pm
sozobe wrote:
And if an apparent rightwingnut responds graciously and honestly my opinion of her would go way up, too. ;-)

Glad it's been clarified.

I am for sure right wing, hopefully not a nut, but I suppose to a leftwingnut, I could be percieved as such. :wink:
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Fri 1 Dec, 2006 09:25 pm
LoneStarMadam wrote:
snood wrote:
So if he got elected and everyone referred to him as the first African-American president (as we surely would forever), this terminology would be problematic for you?

Yes it would. He/she would be an American President, not an African President. I don't use the hyphonated terms for any ethnic or racial group, no Italian-American, Irish-American or whatever, because I believe that it causes even more devisevness.


If Obama could be elected, I'm sure the overall effect wouldn't be devisive - no matter what he's called.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Fri 1 Dec, 2006 10:58 pm
snood wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
snood wrote:
So if he got elected and everyone referred to him as the first African-American president (as we surely would forever), this terminology would be problematic for you?

Yes it would. He/she would be an American President, not an African President. I don't use the hyphonated terms for any ethnic or racial group, no Italian-American, Irish-American or whatever, because I believe that it causes even more devisevness.


If Obama could be elected, I'm sure the overall effect wouldn't be devisive - no matter what he's called.

It would matter to people that want all Americans to be all American.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Sat 2 Dec, 2006 09:25 am
What on earth does that mean?

It's divisive to acknowledge that not everyone has the same skin, hair, and eye color; that people spring from a variety of cultures which are not exactly like each other?
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

So....Will Biden Be VP? - Question by blueveinedthrobber
My view on Obama - Discussion by McGentrix
Obama/ Love Him or Hate Him, We've Got Him - Discussion by Phoenix32890
Obama fumbles at Faith Forum - Discussion by slkshock7
Expert: Obama is not the antichrist - Discussion by joefromchicago
Obama's State of the Union - Discussion by maxdancona
Obama 2012? - Discussion by snood
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Obama '08?
  3. » Page 102
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.18 seconds on 07/08/2025 at 07:21:52