Monger
 
Reply Wed 6 Nov, 2002 07:26 am
This is partly in reply to the thread in this section titled "Superstition and the Internet."

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Type: Discussion • Score: 3 • Views: 11,022 • Replies: 45
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Nov, 2002 08:45 am
I think you've nailed it in the title

Astrology vs Superstition

I hope I have a chance to get back to this discussion later.
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JoanneDorel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Nov, 2002 09:38 am
I only read my horoscope at the end of the day so I can know what happened to me.
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jespah
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Nov, 2002 09:39 am
Monger: I agree with your statement, "there's a secret part of us that wants something extraordinary to happen to us."

Definitely. There's a real hunger for a lot of people to escape their humdrum lives (that's not a criticism; I have a pretty humdrum life myself) and somehow either be extraordinary or have extraordinary things happen to us. Hence a belief in -
* magic
* ESP
* star charts
* biorhythms etc.

I could go on, but the point is that, rather than making life more interesting through education or accomplishments or simply going out and creating one's own adventures, there's a desire to sit back and let deus ex machina take over.
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Monger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Nov, 2002 09:45 am
Very interesting observation, Jespah.
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Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Nov, 2002 09:49 am
Jespah- I absolutely agree. The problem is, some people are looking for something to happen outside of themselves, and not generating the joy from within.

I think the same point about astrology can be taken about fundamentalist religions, and drug abuse. "What has drug abuse and fundamentalist religion have to do with one another", one might ask? Plenty.

These seemingly different lifestyles have one aspect in common. The relinquishing of reason, and the desire for good to be obtained outside of ones self, be it peace, guidance, self esteem, or relief from the strum and drang of life.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Nov, 2002 11:25 am
I detest astrology as much as I do religion.

I really don't see why some don't notice that ascribing traits to the people born under the influence of certain stars that coincide with what we happen to see in the stars is either the greatest coincidence in history or evidence of astrology's idiocy.

Geminis are supposed to be two-faced just because the stars look like twins??? That's bogus.
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Monger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Nov, 2002 09:31 am
I really like your cutting reply here, Craven. I thought about it for a while & decided that I could try to write something in an attempt to differentiate between the glittery, facile astrology you're paraphrasing ("Geminis are supposed to be two-faced just because the stars look like twins") and the more respected astrologers who often employ artistic references in regards to the appearances of the constellations in order to make a point; however, I've decided I should sign off this issue for the following reason: ...I DO NOT in any way whatsoever actually believe in Astrology, as much as what I wrote in my post here implied the opposite.

I did say that "I don't always discount it as mere gullible, uneducated superstition" -- which is true because in some cases I view it more as a "faith," if you will, that's been developed through time, research, & coming to one's own conclusions.

I guess what it comes down to, Craven, is that the reason I wrote what I did here is simply because I just enjoy good, articulate debate, so I thought I'd give my best shot at writing in a way that would seem an open-minded attempt at lending the other side of the "Superstition and the Internet" thread as much credibility as I possibly could. However, since I've now made clear that I too find astrology bogus, I don't think I should be the one taking any further such attempt towards this, though I will continue to read with interest all views presented here on either side.
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Nov, 2002 10:50 am
Sorry if it came across as cutting, a weakness of mine in forum postings is that my haste often makes for a curt tone.

I am not a superstitious person but I don't hold anything against anyone who does (unless they are the type that declares persons incompatible to them because of what some astrologer said).

Superstition has its place in our society. Fbaezer said it best when he said that our brains are emotional as well as logical. It's part of our nature.

I think religion is superstition but also know that it's based on some very human qualities and can be a boon to the individual.

What I mean is: I don't like superstition, but I don't think it's always a bad thing. My dabblings in astrology were what started my interest in the study of humans on the whole. While i don't subscribe to any superstition I think knowledge about superstitions is important as superstition is part of human history.
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Monger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Nov, 2002 12:08 pm
I wrote:
I really like your cutting reply here, Craven.

Craven de Kere wrote:
Sorry if it came across as cutting, a weakness of mine in forum postings is that my haste often makes for a curt tone.


Hey I didn't mean "cutting" like curt or in any bad way. Just cutting as in being shrewd and penetrating, which is usually the most effective thing in debate. :wink:
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Nov, 2002 12:19 pm
Ahh, good thing. Cause through lack of prior though I often offend unintentionally. Glad this wasn't the case.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Nov, 2002 01:10 pm
In my life, about 1200 people have tried to "guess my sign" . . .

and guess what ? 100 of them got it right ! ! !
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Hazlitt
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Nov, 2002 12:09 am
Unless one is superstitious, it should be clear that both astrology and superstition are nothing more than superstitions. Do I make myself clear?
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Monger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2002 12:53 am
...Clearly obtuse, perhaps. Smile Spirituality is a topic where I'm usually not all that interested in opinions off the top of someone's head. This is supposed to be about good debate here -- don't attack something with cliches -- Can you tell us what made you come to that conclusion? Do you have anything to support your claim here? Any personal insight or thought-out observations?


--- Another question for everyone out there: What difference do you personally find between "superstition" & "faith"?...(leaving out merely quoting dictionary definitions). I took a stab at something along this line in a reply to CravenDeKere a while back in this thread, but really the more I think about it the more blurry it becomes to me. Just to open up debate: What makes Astrology more definably superstitious than Christianity? If a person's faith is unprovable (which faith tends to be by definition) & seems irrational to many who don't hold the same belief, what constitutes the strong difference many adamantly claim?

No doubt there are plenty of articulate opinions on this out there, which is exactly why I ask. Smile
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Monger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2002 12:56 am
Setanta wrote:
In my life, about 1200 people have tried to "guess my sign" . . . and guess what ? 100 of them got it right ! ! !


Hahaha, Setanta! I'll have to use that line a lot. Very Happy
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Nov, 2002 08:13 pm
Hazlitt wrote:
Unless one is superstitious, it should be clear that both astrology and superstition are nothing more than superstitions.


monger wrote:
If a person's faith is unprovable (which faith tends to be by definition) & seems irrational to many who don't hold the same belief....


Same difference? Just my opinion.
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Monger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 19 Nov, 2002 02:58 am
Yeah exactly Craven. ...All I was trying to say to Hazlitt is that it's great when people argue an issue rather than merely claiming something is superstitious while giving absolutely nothing towards the debate.

--Back on the subject of if there's any real difference in value between "superstition" & "faith," here's something from a woman I know named Julia:
Quote:
... I think it's silly to look at religion in terms set by believers. For some reason all other issues are held up to scrutiny by rational standards of arguments and logic, and that's okay, but "faith" is untouchable and should be respected, even if it makes no sense whatsoever.
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babsatamelia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Nov, 2002 07:56 pm
I ENJOYED your post Monger, and look forward to
adding something interesting to it. For the
moment, I will say that it has been my experience
that I, being human, have had some rather
unusual experiences - in other words - that they
are impossible to explain, defend, make sense of,
or convince myself that they did not happen. I am
an educated and intelligent person. I understand the
concept of what is REAL and what is NOT REAL, but
the gray areas in between......these are where I
have learned to allow in happenings, experiences,
"chance"? meetings, and the like.
Astrology, like many "teachings" can not be
pinned down to a concrete absolute science, like
psychology - yet I do know that this area of education
has most surely helped many, many people. I have
only a slight knowledge of astrology, but I do know
others who rely on it and adhere to it, just as farmers
will to the Farmers Almanac. AND with great results.
Who knows? Not I. Much more is hidden than is seen.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Nov, 2002 07:59 pm
Monger,

Is your quote from Julia from the lady I know as Jules?
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Monger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Nov, 2002 08:30 pm
Babsatamelia -- Thank ya! I too look forward to anything you'll add or share with us here on this subject in the future. Cheers. Very Happy

Craven -- Yup, you know the one...
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