Wow, 72 beautiful houris for you.

What about about badly wired models?

I am afraid that the women don't get anything. The pearly boys are fer the mins.

But, you were right about the 72.

Poor female suicide bombers.

I copied this from the What is Wrong With the Arab World thread.

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Here are some excerpts and lines from the Koran-- You can tell your friends where to find it now:

Quran tells us to: "not to make friends with Jews and Christians" (5:51), fight them "until they pay the Jizya (a penalty tax for the non-Muslims living under Islamic rules) with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued" ( 9:29). "kill the disbelievers wherever we find them" (2:191), "murder them and treat them harshly" (9:123), "fight and slay the Pagans, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem" ( 9:5).
Quran says that all those who disbelieve in Islam go to hell (5:10), they are najis (filthy, untouchable, impure) (9:28), and orders us to fight the unbelievers until no other religion except Islam is left (2:193). It prohibits a Muslim to befriend a non-believer even if that non-believer is the father or the brother of that Muslim (9:23), (3:28).

It says that the "non-believers will go to hell and will drink boiling water" (14:17). It asks the Muslims to "slay or crucify or cut off the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace and that they shall have great punishment in the world hereafter" (5:34). And tells us that "for them (the unbelievers) garments of fire shall be cut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowels and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked iron rods" (22:19-22) and that they not only will have "disgrace in this life, on the Day of Judgment He shall make them taste the Penalty of burning (Fire)" (22:9).
Quran says that "those who invoke a god other than Allah not only should meet punishment in this world but the Penalty on the Day of Judgment will be doubled to them, and they will dwell therein in ignominy" (25:68). For those who "believe not in Allah and His Messenger, He has prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire!" (48:13).

As for him who does not believe in Islam the Prophet says that after he dies it will be announced with a "stern command": "Seize ye him, and bind ye him, And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. Further, make him march in a chain, whereof the length is seventy cubits! This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High. And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! So no friend hath he here this Day. Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds, Which none do eat but those in sin." (69:30-37)

The holy Prophet prescribes fighting for us and tells us that "it is good for us even if we dislike it" (2:216). Then he advises us to "strike off the heads of the disbelievers"; and after making a "wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives" (47:4).
Our God has promised to "instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers" and has ordered us to "smite above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them" (8:12). and "to strike terror into (the hearts of the enemies" (8:60).

He has made the Jihad mandatory and warns us that "Unless we go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish us with a grievous penalty, and put others in our place" (9:39). Allah speaks to our Holy Prophet and says "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be stern against hem. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed" (9:73).

He promises us that in the fight for His cause whether we slay or are slain we return to the garden of Paradise (9:111). In Paradise he will "wed us with Houris (celestial virgins) pure beautiful ones" (56:54), and unite us with large-eyed beautiful ones while we recline on our thrones set in lines (56:20). There we are promised to eat and drink pleasantly for what we did (56:19). And have sex with "boys like hidden pearls" (56:24) and "youth never altering in age like scattered pearls" (76:19)
As for women, the book of Allah says that they are inferior to men and their husbands have the right to scourge them if they are found disobedient (4:34). It advises men to take a green branch and beat their wives, because a green branch is more flexible and hurts more. (38:44). It teaches that women will go to hell if they are disobedient to their husbands (66:10). It maintains that men have an advantage over the women (2:228). It not only denies the women's equal rights, it decrees that their witness is not admissible in the courts of law (2:282). This means that a woman who is raped cannot accuse her rapist unless she can produce a male witness. Our Holy Prophet allows us to marry up to four wives and he licensed us to sleep with our slave maids and as many 'captive' women as we may have (4:3) even if those women are already married. He himself did just that.

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Let's be real. I didn't say--nor do I believe --that all Muslims want to practice this--nor that all would.... But, plenty ARE and plenty more APPROVE.

I would be happy if some Grand Poobah of Muslims showed up and said absolutely and unequivocably that this is wrong, bad, and the Church (mosque) will excommunicate (or they can make up their own word) anyone who does this OR approves it.

Until then, I'm extraordinarily bent out of shape about it.

What do YOU think of it?

(Looking forward to your responses. I see you have more questions. I don't mind linking at all--but I do expect an acknowledgement of what is written and your honest opinion of it.)

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My past sentiments from elsewhere.

I read a translated copy of the Koran without chapter and verse and was useless for refutation. Thanks for the text. The Koran seems to be filled with violence towards non-believers repeatedly. The first example of ancient brainwashing by repetition of violence.

There are two parts to the Koran. The actual verses from Mohammed and the Hadiths dreamed up by followers promoting it as extensions of Mohammed's teachings. These are more violent and gets deeper into nonsense.

What Mohammed obtained couldn't be from God as the name Gabri-el means from the Paternal polytheistic God El of Canaan. He fathered seventy gods and goddesses representing the seventy nations.

Yeah. This is why I feel about Islam the way I do.

Fortunately the majority of Muslims are nominal and are like most nominal Christians. They only do religious stuff on those certain occasions that require it.

I'm sure you know I know this.

There is a difference in disliking Islam and disliking Muslims.

One is an ideology and one is a person.

The suicide bombers THINK they fall into this category, but according to strict islamic fiqh (jurisprudence) they do not, they aren't martyrs they're murderers.

This whole question about whether houris have.... organs... is just silly, of course the houris are made to look attractive to humans, otherwise what sort of reward would they be?

Perplexed--

How do you reconcile "peaceful Islam" with the quotes in the preceding post? This is the answer I can never seem to get from a Muslim.

Different guidance for a very different time. Muhammad was fighting an on-going war with the pagans, who had several times tried to kill him, had murdered his followers etc. It was a violent time, a war, and during war war-like actionss= are necessary.

Another problem is the misunderstanding of the word Jihad. Jihad, verb base JHD in arabic, means struggle. There are two kinds of struggle, Jihad al-Nafs "Struggle of the Self" where one struggles to submit to God's laws and to become the sort of person God wants us to be, and Jihad al-Asghar or "The Lesser Struggle" which is violent struggle against those who somehow make the practice of Islam impossible for muslims, so a state which does not allow freedom of religion would be an example of an acceptable target for lesser Jihad. It should also be noted that even if the state is repressing your faith, you can't strike violently against them until a Mufti (or Ayatollah for Shi'ites) issues a fatwa stating that this Jihad is acceptable, how it should be carried out etc. Muftis must be respected, peer-reviewed Islamic scholars to be able to issue a fatwa. Al-Qaeda for example does NOT have have the support of the general assembley of Muftis, and therefore their "jihad" is not acceptable, and they are not martyrs.

And then a lot of it we just have to accept, our religion has violent roots and it reflects that in it's writing, but it also tells us that we should not murder, harm the innocent, etc. It's not black and white, it's a bloody grey, and that makes me feel very sad about my religion.

Well, I can only thank you for taking the time to give your explanation, and for adding your personal feelings about it.

Thank you. <smiles at Perplexed>

Well that's completely wrong. The Qur'an are verses transmitted THROUGH Muhammad and the Archangel Gabriel from God. The Hadith are the actions and saying of Muhammad. Any Hadith which is traced back to a follower and not to Muhammad himself is not acceptable.

Even with this different definition of what the hadith are, they are still not part of the Qur'an, and are completely seperate.

Thanks for the info.

People are always trying to tell me the Hadiths aren't "from" Mohammad.

There are different levels of ahadith (plural of hadith), sure ones, strong ones, doubtful ones, and I think a couple more, all referring to the level of certainty that a hadith came from Muhammad himself or not. There are definitely a number of hotly debated ahadith, those are probably what was being referred to.

There are two books, Sahih Bukharii, and Sahih Muslim, that are full of only Sahih (certain) ahadith, and those are second only to the Qur'an (which is the final say on everything) in guiding the Islamic faith.

That's more information than I had, thank you.

I guess the big question would be How does one decide which are the legitimate ahadith, and which aren't? That may be the tempest in the teapot. ....well besides those rough sections in the Koran.

You're welcome, I'm always glad to teach, I hope to do it for a living someday.

As for how the relative level of certainty is determined, it was traditionally done through Isnad, which are chains of "he sad that he said that he said that the Prophet (SA'WS) said [BLANK]" There are many many collections of ahadith, and if a hadith is repeated, with a chain of respectable persons who claim to have heard it (usually ending on either 'aysha or one of the four caliphs (May God be pleased with all of them)) and if those same claims are made by many other people to have heard the same thing, it will be given a relatively high level of certainty.

Recently this method has come under fire from scholars, and this has sparked (as it always does when someone expresses reasonable doubt in Islam) HUGE debate, charges of apostacy, heresy and the like.

Yeah. Has that ever given you pause...the he said, he said...

Seems SO easy to misinterpret, or worse...

I'm sure you've probably considered that. When you did, what did you think?

I take them on a case by case basis, some things, like the instructions for prayers etc, I accep just on faith, because they are sahih, and so central to the practice of being a muslim, but some things just seem so strange to me I can't help but say "no", like in that other thread where someone linked to this long fatwa about cleanliness in the restroom, I really don't think God is that upset if I pee standing up.

You just have to apply your common sense, as with anything else.

If everyone would do that...you know, people wouldn't be so bent out of shape.

Have you ever had a dialogue with another Muslim, who believed Bin Laden was right--or that violence was an acceptable method to deal with...kaffirs?