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Pizza Magnate Seeks Catholic-Governed Town

 
 
jespah
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Mar, 2006 05:02 pm
Anon-Voter wrote:
Setanta wrote:
Lots of people live many places which are less congenial to them but which afford them employment. So, all the cops, fire-fighters, garbage men, city parks landscapers--they're all gonna be gung-ho ultramontane Catholics, huh?

I doubt it . . .


Set,

I can't imagine anyone wanting to live in a community that devout if they weren't in clear flavor of the program. The rules would be so suffocating for an "outsider", plus, I don't think they would be accepted into the community. I'm sure there would entrance requirements and a committee that would review applications and references, etc.

I frankly think it's a great idea letting them all live together in one place. They get what they want, and they don't mess up the public systems in other towns. They can teach all the religious classes they wish, and they don't influence the people who don't wish their kids to take the catechism and religious venues.

As I think more about it now, they should be required to pay all the normal taxes that us unbelievers do as far State and Federal, yet their local taxes and property taxes could be used to pay their local expenses. They could do local sales taxes, whatever it takes! After all, they would be living in Heaven on Earth! They should be willing to pay whatever it takes to live in Heaven on Earth!

I think it would be an interesting study just to see how successful a Catholic Theocracy can be in real practice. It would be interesting to see the "products" of such a society. Would they be amazingly well adjusted, happy, successful people, or would they be a mess, unable to cope in any situation, or any society. Would they be any more honorable than you, I, an unbeliever ... someone of another faith .. or worse ... a non-capitalist.

What do you think, all that moral guidance and positive influence??? Winner or Loser ???

Anon


Well, people might try to live there, even if not of the mindset, because of location or housing costs or the like. Start building large and well-built houses here and charge $100k for 'em, and people here would say they believed just about anything (keep in mind that the housing bubble is insane here, and a lot of folks live either rather far outta town or completely beyond their means in order to be in a house and not an apt.). So I can see it. And, there would be merchants. Someone has to flip the burgers at the diner. Someone needs to clean the streets, paint the houses or whatever, and some of those folk will want to live nearby or in town.

Anyway, there are already, aren't there, some Hasidic townlike communities? The one in New York (I can't recall if there are others) is called Village of Kiryas Joel.
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Mar, 2006 05:16 pm
And then there is Utah.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Mar, 2006 05:17 pm
You ever read the Book of Mormon?

Now that's entertainment . . .
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Anon-Voter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Mar, 2006 08:08 pm
Setanta wrote:
Anon, it just didn't sink in with you, did it? If there aren't enough ultramontane fanatics for the fire department or the sanitation department, they are still going to need fire fighters and garbage collectors.

You seem to view the world with as much unreality as Mr. Monaghan . . .


They had 20,000 hits on their website ... I don't know if they could fill all their required positions or not. Thinking they couldn't is just as realistic, or unrealistic as thinking they could. This is just a discussion, a what if ... that's all ... I think it's a stupid idea, but I'm listening to different ideas.

Anon
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Anon-Voter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Mar, 2006 08:36 pm
jespah wrote:
Well, people might try to live there, even if not of the mindset, because of location or housing costs or the like. Start building large and well-built houses here and charge $100k for 'em, and people here would say they believed just about anything (keep in mind that the housing bubble is insane here, and a lot of folks live either rather far outta town or completely beyond their means in order to be in a house and not an apt.). So I can see it. And, there would be merchants. Someone has to flip the burgers at the diner. Someone needs to clean the streets, paint the houses or whatever, and some of those folk will want to live nearby or in town.

Anyway, there are already, aren't there, some Hasidic townlike communities? The one in New York (I can't recall if there are others) is called Village of Kiryas Joel.


Well Jess,

I guess I'm just spoiled because I wouldn't want to live within 500 miles of the place.

Anon
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jespah
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Mar, 2006 06:15 am
But what if you had to? A lot of parts of the US have housing bubbles and/or only a few spots with a lot of jobs. Not everyone has perfect choice when it comes to where they can afford to live or find a place to work.
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Anon-Voter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Mar, 2006 01:28 pm
jespah wrote:
But what if you had to? A lot of parts of the US have housing bubbles and/or only a few spots with a lot of jobs. Not everyone has perfect choice when it comes to where they can afford to live or find a place to work.


Hey,

This is the Bush economy! There's 5 jobs out there for every one person who wants one. The GDP is burgeoning and everything is bloody great! Where have you been ?? Just ask any rightwinger here in this forum. Everything is hunky dorey!!

Back to the real world ... I guess if you want to live and work in the environment Jes, you have to play by the rules. I frankly think there's enough religious whack jobs out there that they could fill this project and have a waiting list!

Anon
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Mar, 2006 01:39 pm
I doubt that. Your "religious wackjobs" would still have to be willing to pick up other peoples' garbage, or mow the parks, or would have to be qualified to fight fires or patrol the highways. How many religious wack jobs, as you call them, are going to be willing to devote their lives to the deep fryer at Mickey D's just to live in their confessional nirvana?

You continue to ignore reality, while using the expression "back to the real world." Reality dictates to people where they will need to reside in order to make a living, no matter where they might or might not want to live.
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Mar, 2006 01:47 pm
The whole idea is silly. What's to prevent errant folks in this town from going elsewhere for their porn and abortions?

Will the authorities be able to search people's houses for evidence of mischief?
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Anon-Voter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Mar, 2006 01:55 pm
Setanta wrote:
You continue to ignore reality, while using the expression "back to the real world." Reality dictates to people where they will need to reside in order to make a living, no matter where they might or might not want to live.


The reality Set, is that unless you were one of the faithful, and of like mind, that you would not be welcome, nor would you be allowed to be part of the community. If you're telling me that out of 260-280 million people, they can't find 20,000 to 30,000 to man the project, you're the one with reality problems.

Anon
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Mar, 2006 01:57 pm
D'artagnan wrote:
The whole idea is silly. What's to prevent errant folks in this town from going elsewhere for their porn and abortions?

Will the authorities be able to search people's houses for evidence of mischief?


Hey, I'm quoting myself!

I actually like the idea of the authorities breaking into houses to search for mischief. It would be like the Spanish Inquisition. How traditionally Catholic would that be?
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Mar, 2006 02:00 pm
No, you're the one with the reality problem. Out of six billion people, they'll need to find people to do all the **** work, and all the work requiring qualifications. You continue to ignore that communities need a lot of jobs done which not every one is willing to perform, and they need a lot of jobs done which require specific qualifications, no of which refer to confessional adherence. Just coming up with 30,000 people does not guarantee that everyone who signs up will be willing or qualified to do every job that needs to be done.
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Anon-Voter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Mar, 2006 02:03 pm
D'artagnan wrote:
The whole idea is silly. What's to prevent errant folks in this town from going elsewhere for their porn and abortions?

Will the authorities be able to search people's houses for evidence of mischief?


I think it's stupid! I don't think you can isolate everyone in this little "Disneyland" of "GOD" and keep everyone at this high moral level that this guy is shooting for. It's stupid, and it's unrealistic ... all I'm saying is that they have "the right" to do it if they want.

Anon
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Anon-Voter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Mar, 2006 02:08 pm
Setanta wrote:
No, you're the one with the reality problem. Out of six billion people, they'll need to find people to do all the **** work, and all the work requiring qualifications. You continue to ignore that communities need a lot of jobs done which not every one is willing to perform, and they need a lot of jobs done which require specific qualifications, no of which refer to confessional adherence. Just coming up with 30,000 people does not guarantee that everyone who signs up will be willing or qualified to do every job that needs to be done.


Fine Set ...

Anon
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jespah
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2006 09:20 am
Setanta wrote:
.... Out of six billion people, they'll need to find people to do all the **** work, and all the work requiring qualifications. You continue to ignore that communities need a lot of jobs done which not every one is willing to perform, and they need a lot of jobs done which require specific qualifications, no of which refer to confessional adherence. Just coming up with 30,000 people does not guarantee that everyone who signs up will be willing or qualified to do every job that needs to be done.


True. This town is going to need, let's see -- a lawyer (not for divorces, apparently, but for wills and for real estate transactions, not to mention insurance claims and the like), a dentist, a pediatrician, a GP (probably not a hospital as the residents would go to the nearest hospital in another town, like happens in most small towns), trash collectors and street cleaners, secretaries, chefs and convenience store owners, teachers and a principal, etc. While people might (and would) perhaps live there and work elsewhere, one of the raison d'etres of the place is that you can't buy porn or condoms there, and that there are no abortions, etc. etc. etc.

Actually, you can solve the no abortions deal-e-o by just not having any health care available whatsoever. No doctor, no clinic, then no abortion, by definition, but also no checkups and no wound care, either.

Since one of the other raison d'etres of the town is to not teach evolution (at least that's my understanding of it), then that problem can also be cynically solved by just not offering a school. No school, no evolution, but also no math, no history, etc.

Either the residents go offsite for services, or services are severely curtailed (if there is no qualified teacher in town, either everyone home schools or kids go elsewhere), or everyone wears lots of hats, and none of them well. Will the mayor want to flip burgers? Will the teacher agree to plow snow? For ideology, perhaps they will.

But the economic argument, e. g. that people may need to live in a particular place because of affordability, that's nothing new under Bush or under any particular political party. Poor people aren't news, unfortunately, I suppose. Under every administration and every ideology, there are people who are stuck, by economic circumstances, into living or working somewhere, because it's the best or often only place where there are opportunities or acceptable alternatives. This won't change with a new administration, that's just the way things are. To improve it means a huge investment in infrastructure that's totally offtopic and unbelievably expensive, and not the purpose behind this town.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2006 10:52 am
This it would seems violate the anti discrimination laws and would no doubt be illegal. One cannot refuse to rent or sell to an individual based ujpon race, religion and etc.
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Anon-Voter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Mar, 2006 06:28 pm
Jes,

We have people that do those **** jobs now every day ... are you telling me that only the perverse and sinful do those jobs now. What, no religious pious people do **** jobs any more?? You're telling me that there are no pious lawyers, grocery clerks, garbage collectors, etc. etc. etc.


AU1929,

I think it would be hard to bypass these laws as well, and as it says in the article, the county and state would be in court for many months/years for this thing to be sorted out.

However, with the new Fascist Supreme Court now installed, I think anything is possible, if not probable!

Anon
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jespah
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Mar, 2006 07:31 am
Anon-Voter wrote:
Jes,

We have people that do those **** jobs now every day ... are you telling me that only the perverse and sinful do those jobs now. What, no religious pious people do **** jobs any more?? You're telling me that there are no pious lawyers, grocery clerks, garbage collectors, etc. etc. etc....Anon


'Course not. But it ain't easy to fill these jobs, and now the town adds a religious litmus test on top of everything else. This will weed out more possible workers. And it's also a religious litmus test for everything else. Love or hate lawyers, there's only about a million of 'em in the US. You'd have to (a) find a devout lawyer and then also (b) attract him or her to the area. Oh, and (c) you'd have to set that person up so that they would not have to take divorce cases for money, and (d) you'd also have to require that that person make all arguments, etc. under a particular ideology, which could, I suppose, violate some Professional Responsibility considerations, e. g. zealous representation of a client and not being able to go into a legal business partnership with a nonattorney. Plus this mythical creature would have to be able to handle all sorts of things, since there would probably only be one of them -- so they get criminal matters (yes, even the devout will occasionally get into trouble with the law. Even if they're innocent, they still deserve representation, yes?), wills, real estate matters, divorce defense (what if someone leaves the town and wants to get a divorce? Someone will have to appear in court for the resident), corporate matters, tax law, etc.

And that's just the town lawyer. The town teacher will have to be able to teach every subject, every grade. Actually, that might be a considerably easier slot to fill, as Catholic education already happens all across the US. So let's say that that's a slot that's filled. Okay.

Town mayor? Town doctor (and what about therapeutic abortions or prescribing estrogen for hormone replacement therapy -- do the citizens of the town get their medical records thrown open to make sure that that nasty, horrible Necon is being used for menstrual cramp amelioration and not birth control?)? Town hardware store owner? Everyone will have to pass the religious litmus test. And, as has been stated above, what's to stop most people from driving or walking or biking to the next town over, where porn, booze and birth control are all available? Heck, that already happens with dry towns -- people just drive elsewhere for beer. It's a profitable thing, to own a liquor store on the edge of a dry town.

Essentially, it's a wholly untenable situation, unless the town is on a desert island and completely free of the US. And even then, who would want to live there? Aside from the Big Brother aspect, and the religious litmus test, and the very likely tininess of it (which is crazy-making to a lot of people), what's in it for the residents of the town? In a way, it's not as good as being out here, among us heathen types. Isolated persons who are never subject to temptation can never be tested by it. But those who resist offered temptation can be strengthened by their resolve, and lead by example. Love or hate their moral values, but it's like dieting in a land of no food -- no will power is developed. But dieting in a land of temptation is extraordinarily difficult, and you really get something out of success. Assuming you succeed, of course.

Anyway, this is just a lot of publicity for a nutty magnate, more than anything else. The whole idea is untenable and laughable. But he got his wish -- he got us and thousands of other people to talk about it.
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Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Mar, 2006 10:33 pm
I think maybe he likes all the marketing opportunities inherent in the concept.

Domino Town - a Little Slice of Heaven.

Try the new Flavour of the Saviour! Now with Wafer-Thin Christ Crust!

I'm salvation salivatin' already......
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jespah
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Mar, 2006 06:55 am
Will the boxes have antiabortion slogans? That way, you could cut 'em out and reuse them. Protests would have a faint waft of pepperoni about them.
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