Gay marriage debate centers on history vs. change

I condemn thee. Off with your head.

<Hope you weren't kidding. That's a big waste on hair and leggings if your were.>

0 Replies

Abby has a familiar ring. Do I know her?

0 Replies

Momma Angel wrote:

Do YOU have to be right on this issue? I don't. I may think I am but I am more than willing to admit I don't have the definitive answer. I made an adjustment to my way of thinking on this. Because I could see your point of view I came to the best decision for me and my conscience and what I felt was fair for ALL.

I agree to disagree on this issue with you. Why can't YOU?

You didn't answer any of my questions, MA. I can't agree to disagree with you on this because it is my nature to work against bigotry whenever I see it. It's also important to point out similarities in your actions to things that you would fight against. How would you feel about someone who didn't come to the aid of an abused animal? I use that analogy because I know it means something to you. If someone had the ability to make a difference but did nothing would you point it out? If there is an action that can be made which helps undo a wrong, should someone do something about it, or should they be satisfied with not abusing the animal further?

0 Replies

DrewDad,

This post may, just may, come close to me throwing a hissy fit, but I'm not quite there. Laughing

Mesquite,

As kindly as I can say this, "Kiss my grits." Laughing

Sozobe,

I agree sometimes it can be a cop out but my name is NOT Abby. And I have explained why I feel the way I feel. If you think I am wrong, then fine, you think I am wrong. I think you are wrong about it. There is nothing different about it other than we disagree. You don't accept why I believe it is wrong and I don't accept why you believe it's right. I even agreed that I am conflicted about whether it is denying someone their rights so I would just abstain so I wouldn't. The only difference I really see is that I state why I don't agree with some about this and I keep getting stuff thrown back at me trying to get me to change my mind again.

I think the next time someone tells me I am trying to impose my beliefs on them I may actually throw up. Who is imposing here? I keep saying I agree to disagree and try to go on and I keep getting these little quips back at me because I still have not changed my way of thinking to be exactly like that of some of you.

J_B wrote:

Momma Angel wrote:
Do YOU have to be right on this issue? I don't. I may think I am but I am more than willing to admit I don't have the definitive answer. I made an adjustment to my way of thinking on this. Because I could see your point of view I came to the best decision for me and my conscience and what I felt was fair for ALL.

I agree to disagree on this issue with you. Why can't YOU?

You didn't answer any of my questions, MA. I can't agree to disagree with you on this because it is my nature to work against bigotry whenever I see it. It's also important to point out similarities in your actions to things that you would fight against. How would you feel about someone who didn't come to the aid of an abused animal? I use that analogy because I know it means something to you. If someone had the ability to make a difference but did nothing would you point it out? If there is an action that can be made which helps undo a wrong, should someone do something about it, or should they be satisfied with not abusing the animal further?

First of all you presume too much. I don't agree with your point of view on homosexuality so you label me a bigot. Then you presume that because it is in your nature to do that you must now crusade to prove to me that I am a bigot.

I come across people all the time that do nothing to stop animals from being abused. I come across people all the time that abuse animals. Now, if someone doesn't have the same "belief, feeling, etc.," about animals than I do I am certainly not going to expect them to act in the same way I do or would because of it.

So, I do what I can. I opened a cat shelter. I resuce the ones I can. My focus is on saving the animals. It is not on going out there and proving to people that because they don't feel about cats the way I do I think they are abusers. I do what is within my legal right to do.

0 Replies

I don't particularly care if you change your mind or not, Momma Angel.

I am just not very patient with the repeating loop that goes something like: a) state irrational belief, b) refuse to defend irrational belief in any empirical manner, and c) get huffy when people call you on the fact that you are not defending your irrational belief in any empirical manner, and/or say "then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree."

If you don't want to be called on it, don't do a). If you do a), expect to be called on it. <shrug>

0 Replies

<Golf analysis commentator speaks quietly: Soz has told her for the fifty thousandth time. Can anything ultimately sink in that thick, bigoted skull? Will there be a continuing proliferation of stupid, insane, histrionic me-centric purple drama, inflicting inane bigotry on the goodly community of A2K? Who knows, but it doesn't appear anything can penetrate that steel trap. We'll take bets on the results, meanwhile for the viewers reading pleasure>

Little Mouse,

It's not me doing anything. It is He that is within me. Like I said, half the time I'm not sure what I even typed. Your input is invaluable on A2K. We need to encourage all Christians to register and start posting in the Spirituality & Religion Forums. I guess if Set thinks I am recruiting Christians I might as well start doing it!

So, tell everyone. I am telling everyone about this site and trying to help get more to register. We can be a mighty army for the Lord.

~Momma Angel.

"It's us against them." ~Momma Angel.

<Let's watch this putt>

0 Replies

I feel like I am beating my friggin head against a brick wall! Don't you get it, sozobe? I don't think anything anyone has provided to me shows that I should vote yes on this issue if I could vote! Nothing except I would be denying their rights. Fine, I said I can understand that and would abstain! But, it seems unless I actually say yes I would vote for it them I am a) in a state of irrational belief, b) refuse to ......... c) get huffy because you think I'm not defending my belief.

Man, can't you (and others) see it at all? You (and others) are still insisting I am the only one that even might possibly be in error on this situation.

Think about it! Do I berate anyone for the fact that they think homosexuality and gay marriage is ok? Do I make smart mouthed comments about them? NO! And I don't do it because they have the right to what they believe. They have the right to either accept what I believe or not. I have the right to accept what they believe or not. I DO NOT HAVE TO WIN! I never thought it was a flipping contest! It's a discussion about a hot issue.

DrewDad,

Now THAT is a hissy fit. :wink:

0 Replies

Rolled right into the sand trap, appears to have been eaten by a gopher.

0 Replies

Not at all the only one who might be in error. Just, what do you have to show that we (the ones who think gay and lesbian people should have the right to marry) are in error besides your own personal revulsion?

If you have nothing else, you have nothing else, and no point has been made.

Unless you think personal revulsion is a good reason for denying people their rights? That if the people who were queasy at the thought of a black man and a white woman marrying, well, then the black man and white woman just shouldn't get married?

0 Replies

Momma Angel wrote:

Nothing except I would be denying their rights.

You nailed the problem right there.

0 Replies

Questioner wrote:

Momma Angel wrote:
Nothing except I would be denying their rights.

You nailed the problem right there.

Damn. Rolled off the tongue pretty smoothly, too.

0 Replies

Good catch, Questioner. Yeah.

0 Replies

Sozobe,

No, I don't think personal revulsion (and it's just the sex act I'm speaking of, not the person) is a reason to deny anyone their rights.

I have offered Biblical references on this and what the Bible says about homosexuality. Well, you don't accept that because you (not literal) don't believe in the Bible.

So, again, I WOULD ABSTAIN so as not to deny anyone's right. Again, I DON'T GET TO VOTE so it's really a moot point anyway.

I would just like to know why even though I adjusted my way of thinking it is not good enough. Why is it not good enough to just agree to disagree?

0 Replies

Well, gee, let's all act surprised because I said that! Rolling Eyes

I have been trying to tell everyone that I understood it might be denying them their rights.

However, I am getting sick of typing this BTW, if I abstain from voting then I am not denying them their right by a no vote and I am holding true to my religious convictions.

0 Replies

The gopher shits it out, it is redigested by grub worms..The grub worms are bought as bait...

0 Replies

Lots of reasons.

Mostly because it allows you an out when you reach the end of your argument, rather than following it to any logical conclusion. But a lot of others, too, I can lay 'em all out for you if you'd like. :-)

I've gone into the abstaining thing repeatedly -- J_B too -- so will just put going over it AGAIN in the "waste of time" column.

0 Replies

OK, are there any arguments for preventing gay marriage other than religious, historical, or "gut feeling?"

I consider none of these to be valid reasons, FYI.

There are plenty of reasons to allow gay marriage.

0 Replies

So, let's keep J_B's analogy about the animal abuse thing going just a step further.

I suppose I should be out there trying to get everyone that is not doing a thing about saving the cats to do something? I should hound them (pun intended) until they get off their butts and go open a cat shelter of their own? I should tell them everytime they say something about an animal that they are wrong and keep doing that until they all open cat shelters?

Well, you know what? I'm sorry if it's not good enough for some of you. I'm sorry if you don't seem to think I have a right to what I believe without attacking it.

I'm sorry ya don't like my stand. You don't live in my shoes. You are not accountable for anything I say or do. I am.

So, this is my stance. I agree to disagree and will not address the same old questions about this. If I've covered it once, I've covered it a dozen times.

0 Replies

How about this...

When on a discussion forum, someone says that they just have a personal revulsion to cats and that they think cat shelters are stupid, would you say something then?

'Cause that's all we're doing.

You bring it up, we respond.

0 Replies

Momma Angel wrote:

Well, gee, let's all act surprised because I said that! I have been trying to tell everyone that I understood it might be denying them their rights.

However, I am getting sick of typing this BTW, if I abstain from voting then I am not denying them their right by a no vote and I am holding true to my religious convictions.

I think you may be mixing problems here MA.

Firstly, if you abstain that's all well and good. However, it's somewhat difficult for non-believers to rationalize taking away someone's rights based solely upon the bible. Above all that, there is also the disagreement amongst many that taking away rights for any reason is bad. This includes hatred, racism, whatever. Wrong is wrong, despite what the bible says.

The second problem is your insistence that everyone should stop arguing the topic with you simply because you are backed into a wall and have nothing further to offer other than 'the bible says it's so'. The bible is not, nor should it ever be the ruler by which a law is judged. In this instance, MA, it is NOT ok to agree to disagree. By doing so, we give credence to your philosophy that homosexuality is wrong and should be forbidden. This is not acceptable, so despite the fact that you may 'wish' to let it go . . . it is unreasonable to expect it to be so.

0 Replies

Gay marriage debate centers on history vs. change

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know