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Is violent entertainment spirtually harmful?

 
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2006 02:05 am
Hi Real Life,
Yes your slippery slope exists, it is your attempted connection between Madison avenue's benign media influences, and the presumption of the malignant media influences in film and games.

You are putting words in my mouth as I did not say "Jesus was" … "responsible for anyone's death". I said "there has been vastly more violent outcomes from the likes of figures such as Jesus".

Evidence? All the innumerable wars (both regular and holy) in which the father, the son and the holy ghost are invoked. The Nazi's themselves were very much Christians. The outcome of Jesus' life was in effect Christianity. Christianity is well documented as a spring board for violence and bigotry. Witness the KKK, the Christian persecution of the Jews, the Christian persecution of so-called witches.

If you are asking me if there have been violent outcomes from the likes of MLK Jr, I would fist ask what relevance that question has to the violent outcomes from the likes of figures such as Jesus. Why? becasue MLK Jr's name has not been invoked for the last 2,000 years for the purposes of bigotry and violence.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2006 02:13 am
neologist wrote:
Chumly has a very wide brush.
Depends on the canvas and the mood :wink:
0 Replies
 
Kehoe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2006 02:28 am
Re: Is violent entertainment spirtually harmful?
neologist wrote:
Concerning violent movies and video games and the like:

Can viewing or participation cause spiritual harm?

Consider that the adrenaline rush often associated with violent entertainment might provide reinforcement. Could it lead to harmful personality traits?

Discuss.



I believe it could be, if a person didn't balance the negative influences out with more positive influences in their life.

Just my 2 cents worth. Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2006 05:18 pm
Re: Is violent entertainment spirtually harmful?
neologist wrote:
Doktor S wrote:
What constitutes 'harmful' in your opinion within the spectrum of personality traits?
Criminal?

Ouch, that looks like a slippery slope waiting to slip and slide it's way into oblivion.
What criminal is is defined by society...and is pretty much arbitrary.
Killing is criminal..except in certain cases of 'self defence' or other such precedents set by the state. Of course in these cases or when the state itself undertakes execution killing is no longer criminal. Does that make these cases no longer harmful, because the state says so?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2006 11:05 pm
Re: Is violent entertainment spirtually harmful?
Doktor S wrote:
neologist wrote:
Doktor S wrote:
What constitutes 'harmful' in your opinion within the spectrum of personality traits?
Criminal?

Ouch, that looks like a slippery slope waiting to slip and slide it's way into oblivion.
What criminal is is defined by society...and is pretty much arbitrary.
Killing is criminal..except in certain cases of 'self defence' or other such precedents set by the state. Of course in these cases or when the state itself undertakes execution killing is no longer criminal. Does that make these cases no longer harmful, because the state says so?
Are there any case of criminality which you would aver are abhorrent in every sense? The brutalization of children, for example?

Just trying to corral your thought, that's all.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Feb, 2006 11:57 pm
Chumly wrote:


Evidence? All the innumerable wars (both regular and holy) in which the father, the son and the holy ghost are invoked. The Nazi's themselves were very much Christians. The outcome of Jesus' life was in effect Christianity. Christianity is well documented as a spring board for violence and bigotry. Witness the KKK, the Christian persecution of the Jews, the Christian persecution of so-called witches.

If you are asking me if there have been violent outcomes from the likes of MLK Jr, I would fist ask what relevance that question has to the violent outcomes from the likes of figures such as Jesus. Why? becasue MLK Jr's name has not been invoked for the last 2,000 years for the purposes of bigotry and violence.


So if I invoke your name and miscontrue something you said as I commit a crime, then you're responsible, right?

Is that your idea of 'evidence'?

My new motto "Chumly told me to." Laughing

Use is not the same as misuse. Think about it, Chumly.
0 Replies
 
Bartikus
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Feb, 2006 10:11 am
real life wrote:
Chumly wrote:


Evidence? All the innumerable wars (both regular and holy) in which the father, the son and the holy ghost are invoked. The Nazi's themselves were very much Christians. The outcome of Jesus' life was in effect Christianity. Christianity is well documented as a spring board for violence and bigotry. Witness the KKK, the Christian persecution of the Jews, the Christian persecution of so-called witches.

If you are asking me if there have been violent outcomes from the likes of MLK Jr, I would fist ask what relevance that question has to the violent outcomes from the likes of figures such as Jesus. Why? becasue MLK Jr's name has not been invoked for the last 2,000 years for the purposes of bigotry and violence.


So if I invoke your name and miscontrue something you said as I commit a crime, then you're responsible, right?

Is that your idea of 'evidence'?

My new motto "Chumly told me to." Laughing

Use is not the same as misuse. Think about it, Chumly.


It's kinda sad that you had to point this out RL.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Feb, 2006 07:50 pm
this question always makes me wonder about the rise in youth violence.

which came first, the chicken or the egg ?

when i was a little, nearly every kid i knew was up for the whole play army thing. and not with those wussie totally fake looking things they have now. i'm talking real live war toys.

mattel made a bunch of 'em that shot little plastic bullets from little plastic shells out of the barrel of the most realistic looking .45 automatics, machine guns and snub nose .38s. we even had mattel mortars and hand grenades. all of 'em made a pretty good noise when ya shot the bad guys.

and most of us turned out to be fairly mellow. the guys that didn't were the same guys that had always been into beating the crap out of someone.

i suppose the big difference is that when we were foolin' around killing each other with cap guns, there was a consequence if ya smacked a guy over the head with something.

video games, you mostly get more points and street cred (yup. right there in your safe little bedroom), with no consequential feedback for being a jerk.

take that kind of invincibility attitude out on the real street and there's gonna be trouble. at least till you're the one that gets pounded.

it's not so much that i'm all down on any violence in games or movies or whatever. only that there should be some kind of reason for it to be there other than getting all manly about yourself.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Feb, 2006 08:50 pm
Bartikus wrote:
real life wrote:
Chumly wrote:


Evidence? All the innumerable wars (both regular and holy) in which the father, the son and the holy ghost are invoked. The Nazi's themselves were very much Christians. The outcome of Jesus' life was in effect Christianity. Christianity is well documented as a spring board for violence and bigotry. Witness the KKK, the Christian persecution of the Jews, the Christian persecution of so-called witches.

If you are asking me if there have been violent outcomes from the likes of MLK Jr, I would fist ask what relevance that question has to the violent outcomes from the likes of figures such as Jesus. Why? becasue MLK Jr's name has not been invoked for the last 2,000 years for the purposes of bigotry and violence.


So if I invoke your name and miscontrue something you said as I commit a crime, then you're responsible, right?

Is that your idea of 'evidence'?

My new motto "Chumly told me to." Laughing

Use is not the same as misuse. Think about it, Chumly.


It's kinda sad that you had to point this out RL.


Hi Bartikus,

It would seem rather self evident that blaming Christ for Hitler is a ridiculous proposition.

Chumly seems to be a product of the very type of propaganda that he claims has no effect on people's thinking. Modern media are powerful manipulators of public opinion, and their sublety is unmatched.

I always wonder about people like that. What would they be like if they turned off the TV for a year? But it'll never happen because they usually cannot bring themselves to turn it off. It seems they haven't the will power to switch it off .

The best we can hope for is that they will begin to watch with a doubting attitude and begin to question the presuppositions that they are being fed.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Feb, 2006 08:52 pm
Excellent points, Don't Tread.

Nothing like interaction with real people instead of a screen to bring you back to reality.
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Treya
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Feb, 2006 10:35 pm
Re: Is violent entertainment spirtually harmful?
neologist wrote:
Concerning violent movies and video games and the like:

Can viewing or participation cause spiritual harm?

You don't need to profess belief in a god to answer. Can such activities damage one's ability to make moral decisions?

Consider that the adrenaline rush often associated with violent entertainment might provide reinforcement. Could it lead to harmful personality traits?

Discuss.


Good topic neo. I would answer yes to all of these questions. I believe that what you put into something is generally what you get out. If we feed ourselves with fatty foods with lots of carbohydrates... well we shouldn't be too surprised when we step on the scale and see we've packed on a few extra pounds...
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Feb, 2006 10:33 am
Thanks, folks. I appreciate the comments.

I will have to confess that I find a certain catharsis evident in violent entertainment. I enjoyed zapping those goofy little spaceships when video games fist came out. Games like PacMan were (are) a blast. The earlier Clint Eastwood movies are still a treat.

But somewhere in the last 15 or so years, the level of gore (and sex) has risen to the point where I feel a measure of both guilt and revulsion in participation, so much so that I categorically refuse to purchase or view anything with an 'R' rating.

Whether the level of gratuitous sex and violence has increased in our modern world is a subject for further debate. I certainly wish to avoid becoming inured to its representation.

"Can a man rake together fire into his bosom and yet his very garments not be burned?" (Proverbs 6:27)

I could be wrong; but I don't think so.
0 Replies
 
Treya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Feb, 2006 11:59 am
I'm with you on that neo. All of what you said. What was acceptable in a rated "R" movie when I was younger is now what is acceptable in a PG13 movie. As far as video games go I'm not too certain having not played too many myself. Though I do like the occasional bout of playing need for speed. Whoooo...

I can say this though. At my last job I worked with troubled teenage boys. Shortly before I left that job there was an outburst of kids sneaking adult video games on the campus when they would come home from home visit. By the time staff caught up with it almost all of eight cottages on the campus had at least one copy of grand theft auto floating around. The interesting thing about this story is that a couple of the boys snuck out one night, went up to the mechanics shop, hopped in a car, and decided to take it for a spin around the campus.

The mechanics left the keys in the cars because no one had ever thought of doing this before and the place has been open since the 1950's. Shocked The boys took the car to one of the other cottages and knocked on a window to try and get some other boys to join them in their joy ride. One of the boys ran outside in his bare feet, stepped on a piece of broken glass, and cut his foot so bad they thought it would have to be amputated. It was shortly after this incident that staff began discovering all the grand theft auto games that had been slipped onto the campus...

Go figure...

I don't think things necessarily have to influence us, but I think they can without us being aware that they are.
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Feb, 2006 12:34 pm
Re: Is violent entertainment spirtually harmful?
neologist wrote:
Concerning violent movies and video games and the like:

Can viewing or participation cause spiritual harm?

You don't need to profess belief in a god to answer. Can such activities damage one's ability to make moral decisions?

Consider that the adrenaline rush often associated with violent entertainment might provide reinforcement. Could it lead to harmful personality traits?

Discuss.


No. It's all a matter of interpretation. Your ability to make moral decisions comes from real interaction with real people.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Feb, 2006 12:52 pm
Re: Is violent entertainment spirtually harmful?
echi wrote:
neologist wrote:
Concerning violent movies and video games and the like:

Can viewing or participation cause spiritual harm?

You don't need to profess belief in a god to answer. Can such activities damage one's ability to make moral decisions?

Consider that the adrenaline rush often associated with violent entertainment might provide reinforcement. Could it lead to harmful personality traits?

Discuss.


No. It's all a matter of interpretation. Your ability to make moral decisions comes from real interaction with real people.


i agree with you there, echi. and you, considering our interaction on another thread, may find it hard to believe, but i really think that good kids come from good parenting.

being a good parent entails a lot more than "roof, food & church". they all contribute to a kid's welfare, but the to-do list doesn't end there. more now than ever, it's vital for parents to be heavily involved in an adolescent's viewing and computer experience. not so much to censor (although that does come into it), but to guide and explain. and then know when it's time for the chid to have wider access. afterall, you are not doing good service towards a child by trying to raise them in a bubble.

-----

neologist wrote:
Whether the level of gratuitous sex and violence has increased in our modern world is a subject for further debate.


i've never understood the view of violence and sex being equal in the bad stuff department. Shocked
0 Replies
 
echi
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Feb, 2006 01:11 pm
Hey, D. Tom--
What thread was it that we butted heads in? I can't remember.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Feb, 2006 08:23 pm
echi wrote:
Hey, D. Tom--
What thread was it that we butted heads in? I can't remember.


naw, didn't mean we butted heads. just different povs. that was on the abortion thread. ya know how crazy that topic makes some people. if you are pro-choice you often get labeled as family unfriendly or hate children or whatnot.

i remember you because you were of a different opinion, but reasonable in your exchanges. can't ask for more than that. Smile
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Feb, 2006 10:48 pm
real life wrote:
So if I invoke your name and miscontrue something you said as I commit a crime, then you're responsible, right?

Is that your idea of 'evidence'?

My new motto "Chumly told me to." Laughing

Use is not the same as misuse. Think about it, Chumly.
You have replaced certain words of mine, with words of your choosing, imputing these substitutes to be equivalent, when they are not, further you then draw erroneous conclusions based on your substituted words, and then string together certain presumptions you have garnered from my text. If you quote me exactly I will be happy to engage, otherwise the train will derail as it has done here.

Bartikus appears to have followed suit
Bartikus wrote:
It's kinda sad that you had to point this out RL.
Exact quotes, the definition of one's terms, realizable logic / evidence are the requisites prior to the presently unsubstantiated claims made by you two nice fellows in reference to myself to have merit.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Feb, 2006 11:15 pm
Chumly wrote:
real life wrote:
So if I invoke your name and miscontrue something you said as I commit a crime, then you're responsible, right?

Is that your idea of 'evidence'?

My new motto "Chumly told me to." Laughing

Use is not the same as misuse. Think about it, Chumly.
You have replaced certain words of mine, with words of your choosing, imputing these substitutes to be equivalent, when they are not, further you then draw erroneous conclusions based on your substituted words, and then string together certain presumptions you have garnered from my text. If you quote me exactly I will be happy to engage, otherwise the train will derail as it has done here.

Bartikus appears to have followed suit
Bartikus wrote:
It's kinda sad that you had to point this out RL.
Exact quotes, the definition of one's terms, realizable logic / evidence are the requisites prior to the presently unsubstantiated claims made by you two nice fellows in reference to myself to have merit.


It's too bad, but not surprising, that you choose not to defend your weak premise, Chumly. It's preposterous on it's face.

However, you accuse me of 'replacing' your words and 'imputing these substitutes' as you admonish --
Quote:
quote me exactly
as if I had quoted you inaccurately. If you'll notice, I didn't quote you at all.

I simply asked you a couple of questions

Quote:
So if I invoke your name and misconstrue something you said as I commit a crime, then you're responsible, right?

Is that your idea of 'evidence'?


which you were unable to answer without invalidating your premise.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Feb, 2006 11:41 pm
Hi Real life

I surely will respond in full, I just got back from holidays and must now go to bed, but I popped in for reasons explained. I will indeed address any assertion you put forth as per my *specific quotes*. Not your interpretations.
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