Problem with JOINT HOME OWNERSHIP!!

babs, get yourself a lawyer. The woman is looking for palimony.

Babs- This has nothing to do with domestic partnerships, lesbians or other peripheral issues. It has to do with a contract. You made her an owner in your home. I would check with a lawyer on this one.

Im not sure if I can word my idea well, but I will give it a try.

You said it was only a few years ago that you decided to put her on the mortgage.

Is there a way to figure out how much the house value went up in ONLY those years?
That way, if she wins, you can say - " you were part of the home owner ship between years 3-6. The value changed only.. 1,000. So you are entitled to 300 of those dollars , because you were not financially responsible in all 10 years.. " .. or something along those lines.. ?

Does that make sense?

Minimize the time that she was actually able to 'claim' anything so if she does win in a court of law, the amout of loss for you is minimal compared to the entire house value?

Sorry, but this situation sounds pretty crappy.
I dont see how she can do that to you. Im sorry you are going through that and I hope, when you get a lawyer, he sees things exactly the way you do and he can find a way to get you out of this.

You are very right of course. I'm an idiot. How could I have let
her con me, for all these years?
I didn't know palimony was even a remote possibility in Florida,
I thought that palimony was only in "progressive" states that
recognized lesbian relationships to be "real relationships".
Words can not describe how DUMB I feel at this moment.

you are not dumb.
If you would have KNOWN this was going to happen, you would have never signed her to the mortgage.
If you would have signed her to the mortgage KNOWING she was going to do this, then yeah, I would label you dumb.

Thats not the case.

It sounds like this woman has alot of mental issues.
I am willing to bet, on medication, she was NOTHING like this.
No excuses given to her, but i dont think this behavior is 'natural' for her. And to a certain extent, it may be a bit out of her control when she is not taking medicine.
But im not here to defend or define her actions.

Just pointing out, in more then one way, you are not dumb.


Can you afford a really good lawyer right now?
That, as phoenix said, is probally the best answer.

Oh, that doesn't matter for someone who's going to try to test the law, which it sounds like she's setting up to do. She may also try to show things like a business partnership, anything to show the kind of loss that will be suffered (allegedly) with the end of things.

And you're not dumb.

Get thee to a lawyer. This is why we exist in the first place.

FL law doesn't recognize common law marriage or palimony but that doens't stop someone from trying I suppose.

From what you've mentioned you gave her a half-interest in the house. With that she can file to force the sale of the house and she doesn't need any real reason to do so. If her request were granted she would probably be entitled to half of the proceeds from the sale.

There may be a few "hooks" out of that that a lawyer may be able to find and work on (for example - you had a contract for her to gain an interest in the house. Is $5 on her part adequate consideration?? Only a judge can decide what is or isn't adequate but your lawyer can certianly question the issue.)

But, as jespah said, you need to find a laywer in FL NOW. This isn't something you want to play with at all.

Thank you all so much. I guess I really DO need an attorney.
I need one for the huge malpractice and product liability law
suit coming up - I'm sure they could point me in the direction
of a decent attorney for this type of case. I''d hoped we could
avoid going down that way, but I see it has come to the path
that splits in the road and I need to make a decision. A part of
me sees her behaving as her typical acting out crap. In a way
she's just trying to get some kind of big emotional response out
of me. Trying to get ANY response from me to no avail....which
drives her nuts. But this is so typical of her insecure, immature
behavior. Many of our years together, she really did appear to
be trying to grow up. Even now, it's obvious that there are 1 or
2 family members behind the scenes, pushing all her buttons &
manipulating her - just because it can be done so easily. It has
to be her nasty sister in law or her mother. In the long run, it
makes no difference. The result is the same. End the relationship
to get everything you can get. Her entire family have ALL had so
many bogus workman's comp cases, discrimination lawsuits, all
claims settled out of court... got themselves a new house, a new
roof, a swimming pool, a new deck, new cars. It's a regular business
with these people. So yeah, I'm sure that IF she really wants
trouble, she's got herself an attorney already.

babs- I have known a number of people in my lifetime who pull the same sorts of deals. As far as you are concerned, whatever shenanigans her family is up to, it really does not matter.

I know it is hard, but try to stick to the facts, and not get yourself into an emotional funk about it. That is probably what she is looking for, to get you upset, so that she can make a "deal" with you.

Get a proactive attorney, and have as little to do with this matter personally as you are able.

Before you spends tons on legal fees, and before both of you have firmly fixed your positions and won't change, I *strongly* suggest you do your very best to get on your partner's good side. Go you for a snack and a beverage a few times. Do *not* bring up the house etc.

Once you have a bit of friendliness and some new common ground, very gently see what your partner really wants, and try to reach a compromise.

During this time, you can talk to a lawyer but do *not* tell your partner that is what you are doing.

You might be surprised about what you partner will eventually accept if you stay on excellent terms.

You might be surprised about the true reasons why you two are fighting.

Remember many lawyers will tell you that you have a good case (and it may be true, although you have a tough one with Joint Tenancy IMO). But your partner's lawyer will often be telling them the same thing! What this leads to is large expenses.

It's not unusual for the total monies (and time and aggravation) spent on a legal battles to be more than you would lose in a simple friendly settlement, even if the simple friendly settlement does not seem 100% fair to you.

Remember it is not who is right or wrong, legally or morally, what matters is how much money and time the two of you will spend fighting, and what you will get in the end.

Very WISE, my dear Phoenix, very wise indeed. Anyone have
any thoughts on whether I can change the deadbolt locks on the
doors of my house, now that she has moved out. A female officer
from the local sheriff's dept. was here, supervising things while she
moved out her stuff. I would imagine that NOW I have the right to
change the locks since she technically moved out. What do you think??

Chumly, you ALSO have brought up more food for thought;with
the possibility of an agreement terms minus the need for the
expensive attorneys. Good heavens, I really don't know what
to do ... fortunately it is the weekend. I am going to do my
Tarot cards and talk with some staunch friends and supporters.
That is one thing that I DO HAVE ON MY SIDE. All she has to
stand up for her as supporters in terms of reference are mainly
family & drug/alcohol abusers ... whereas I have 2 doctors,
a veterenarian, bankers, a real estate broker, 2 real estate
agents, several grade schoo teachers, several nurses & the
ex-wives of two of her brothers. Not to mention her history
of severe mental illness & being hospitalized due to psychiatric
problems (NOT WHEN I MET HER) and her own history showing
a complete lack of any kind of fiscal responsibility. She got 3
credit cards last fall - she used them - and has yet to make one
single payment on any of them. Due to her mental illness,
my banker assures me that they won't be able to put any lien
against my property over these piddling little $300 limit credit
cards.

Hi babsatamelia,

Well the full legal option does not disappear simply because you try and do things in a clean simple direct way.

Just don't sign anything or agree to anything until you have confirmed it with a lawyer and whatever you do not start fights or bring up old arguments or tell her you are seeing a lawyer.

Also, in spite of all her negative character references, the fact of the matter remains that you are Joint Tenants and you did so willingly.

The laws in Canada are pretty clear about such things, and I assume the laws in the US would not be highly different. I think you are gong to have to accept that she has a legal interest in the asset.

I also think that if she is as unstable as you say, that you have an excellent chance of getting a good deal, if you can befriend her long enough to get what you want.

Remember if it all goes to court the issues will revolve around the legalities of Joint Tenancy and not your personal assessment of her and possibly not even her poor character references as you would have to show to the judge why they are relevant to the proceedings. Unless you try and claim that you were fraudulently mislead to sign the agreement but I will warn you that path may lead to a big expensive mess.

Question: how much money do you think she will be able to get to fight this case if it goes to court?

What is the weather like these days in British Columbia? I do
so want to go there one day. What month(s) are the horrible
biting fly months????
NO .... I would never sign anything at this point in time, nor
ever again most likely.
I read something recently about joint property and marriage:
**"If an asset was acquired by one party - PRIOR to the date of
the marriage (???) the court generally has no jurisdiction to
even consider any distribution, and therefore the assets remain
with that party."
**In an example which many persons feel is unfair, an engagement
ring is considered a premarital asset of the wife & any debt
thereon is considered a premarital debt of the husband.
This little tidbit I found while just looking for any info regarding
joint ownership etc etc

The weather is warm and dry in the day with lots of sun and the evening just cool enough for a very light frost! There are no horrible biting fly months that I know of, and I have lived in South Western BC for 50 years! Maybe up north, but I have been there many times too and no problems.Well I strongly recommend that you at the least sign an agreement with your former partner to exempt her of any future claims.Yes that is true in Canada too and may help your case, but you need to show a *very* clear paper trail to make that case and sadly putting her on title does not aid that argument.Well, I would not count on the prior debt argument to save a *married* couple that had been together for say 40 years, but I am not an expert to be sure. A good family lawyer could help here, but again I thought the issue was the joint property, not prior debts.

I do not know what your state laws say about the legaliites of your relationship. Again though it's the the Joint Tenancy arguments that seem to be the most concern here.

Thanks Chum, you're right about trying to get something
resolved, in ink. with not only her signature, but also
signatures of witnesses. I already have a number of
witnesses who remember her promise that she would never
take advantage of my putting her name on the deed to my
home; but that probably isn't worth a darn thing.
Well, life is a live and learn process - I learn as I go.
Sometimes slower than others

The witnesses who remember her promise "that she would never take advantage of my putting her name on the deed to my home" is worth zero. Why? Because her legal argument would be that she is not "taking advantage" but simply exercising her legal rights as a joint tenant. And she would be correct about this.

Suck up to her and be nice for a few months, find out the least amount she would go for. See a lawyer very quietly on the side at the same time. Then you will have something to work with. Where do I send my bill? I may have just saved you 2 years of heart aches and $50,000 :wink:

**Jes, Phoenix, SheWolf - thanks so very much for input. I didn't
know that LAW was your "field" Jes, and at this point, I do believe
I AM MOST FORTUNATE to have this Forum available to use & I do
gladly welcome & take heed of ... any legal advice freely given is
so very much appreciated. So, if it's "get an attorney time" & no
way to avoid that - then that's that!! Bite the bullet time. Pay out
through the nose to the attorney, or to her - I've got a bad feeling
that no matter what I do, I've got myself into an unfortunate &
potentially expensive ghastly disaster.
**I don't know, but, based on her really peculiar behavior recently,
if I made an effort toward being "more friendly" to her at this
point in time, it will be interpreted as just a sign to her that I am
weak, and that she is "winning" whatever that means to her,
I am not very certain right now.
**She does appear to have another agenda going on here above
& beyond her desire for a financial "result". Definitely. While I AM
sure that $$ plays a big part with her motivation now, there is a
for-sure undercurrent going on. This may be her mental illness
talking, but ( for example ) IF I was not at home - I doubt that
she would even bother coming here to take or steal things. In
order for her behavior to be satisfying for her, taking & stealing
stuff MUST be in my presence, otherwise she doesn't appreciate
it fully.
**I rarely ever, ever, ever - in my entire life; trust anyone, based
on a childhood in my mother's alcoholic/insane behavior. She
really ought to have been confined to an institution, but then what
would my father do with 3 daughters and no wife?? I'm guessing here
...he died about 10 years ago,and he did talk about some of
the things he WISHED he had done differently, one of those being
NOT to permit his grade school children to get up, get themselves
ready for school, dress ourselves, not comb our hair, only get
bathed once a week (???) if that. God only knows what we looked
(or smelled) like. Unbelievable.
** Anyway, the repercussions of that kind of neglect are amazing.
I can be neglected, for example, in a hospital ( and I most surely
have been) yet I STILL must sit down, go over the entire situation
in my mind & seriously think about it, very hard, before I can even
begin to decide if I AM being mistreated. When I watch a movie like
"The Luzhin Defense," I am so sad for that man, for he cannot even
begin to comprehend what is happening to him - he lacks the
proper awareness to make a critical distinction of foul play.