TOWER OF BABEL

You ignore one important fact.

Lucifer was "fallen" from heaven. Fallen indicating there really wasn't a choice on his part.

Jesus was sent. Indicating He was a willing participant.

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Anon-Voter wrote:

talk72000 wrote:
You are wilfully blind. I gave you the chapter and verse. Go and check it out in the Bible. Your bobble is nothing but crap.[/quote

http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/genealogy_of_Jesus.htm

[quote]In Luke's account of our Lord's genealogy, (Lk 3:23-38), our Lord's human family line is traced through Nathan to David which does not have the prohibition of rulership on it. It is also traced through the male side of the family line of Mary's father Heli. This is legitimate considering Mary's not having any brothers to carry on her line and her marriage within her tribe to Joseph. This thereby enabled Joseph to legally be proclaimed Mary's father Heli's adoptive son in order to continue her line.

Anon, thank you for posting this. I appreciate it. I meant to thank you earlier... LOL got slightly distracted there! Razz

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Jesus is identified positively as 'morning star'. All the events in the New Testament matches the five "I will" of Lucifer. Jesus sat at the mount of theTemple, his Ascension, he stated his throne will judge the Jews and he was like god.

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I hope you realize when you die you are not going toheaven but to join Jesus Lucifer in hell.

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I hope you realize that I won't condemn you to hell. Regardless of what you believe about me.

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I am not condemning you. You made your choice by worshipping Jesus Lucifer. Why would God accept you when you don't worship Him. If I owned a house and a fraud claiming ownership to my house invites you, I certainly wouldn't know you as I didn't invite you and you couldn't enter my house. Neither could I enter your house if I was invited by someone else.

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I most certainly did. I don't regret the choice to worship Jesus.

I could ask you the same question, but instead I'll give you the answer.

God accepts you even if you don't accept Him. Even if you do think that Jesus is Lucifer.

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Who cares what you or I worship or don't worship.

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I care. And I thought it was apparent you did too since you put forth such a vehement argument.

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I only care that Jesus brought about a new culture of compassion and religion but he is not God as that is what the prophecy of Isaiah 14:12 is about. It will come about that people will realize Jesus is no God. When that happens the prophecy has been fulfilled. Jesus' fate is in God's hand. Did Jesus actually do what was in the Gospels or did the Gospel writers just make it up?

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Talk Is 14:12 was not a prophesy. He was talking about something that had already happened.

We were not there to say whether it happened or not. All we have is what is written. I have seen many arguments about what was written that are quite fair. Questions that are honest. Questions that need answers.

I know what I believe. I know where I've been. I know what's happened to me. That's all I've got besides the bible. Though that may not be worth squat to anyone else it is what makes me who I am.

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It is a prophecy as it foretells. "I will" is in future tense. The fact of the events have occurred viz. the New Testaments have been fulfilled. The sin of Jesus is not that he did good but he assumed the title of God and is Deistic crime. It is a crime against God not man.

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All verse 12 says is this:

12 " How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!

I don't see an "I will" in there anywhere until it is referring to what Lucifer said he would do. All the author did was preface what was already done then emphasize why it was done.

I would like to see the evidence to support the argument you are presenting. However, I must go to bed now. I would like to continue this conversation though some other time. Good night. Smile

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Isaiah 14:
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart,
a) I will ascend into heaven,
b) I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
c) I will sit also upon the mount of the Congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 d)I will ascend above the heights of the clouds:
e)I will be like the most High.

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Re: TOWER OF BABEL

hephzibah wrote:

Actually they intentionally got him drunk so they could take advantage of him because I'm sure they knew if they asked him while he was sober he would say, "HECK NO!" because it was wrong. ACK. They did it to preserve the lineage of their father. He was old, they were all he had left, and there was no one else around to... ahem... you know... so yeah... it was gross I'll give you that. But in the Jewish culture having sons was a BIG deal. Daughters, yeah, they're good, but to have a son well he was the one to inherit your wealth, he was the one to carry on the name. With no sons your name died off and became forgotten.

Aw right, thanks for your explanation. Somehow, though, the gravity of the story seems reduced by your euphemisms-- "Heck no (we will not fornicate.")

"and there was no one else around to... ahem... " Ahem? What is this ahem?

"it was gross I'll give you that" What the ....? Egads, were you there?

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Well cliffhanger, mankind has not changed. I'm not offended by what happened with Lot because I see and deal with the effects of much more heinous crimes every day. I'm not saying that makes what happened in the story of Lot any better or somehow justified. But I'm sure the "step-fathers" who rape the "step-daughters" I work with have some sort of justification in their own mind about why they should be allowed to do that or why it's ok. That does not make it ok. That does not justify it. Yet they still do what they do.

I feel like you are dumbing this up a little with your comment:

Quote:

"and there was no one else around to... ahem... " Ahem? What is this ahem?

I'm a little shy talking about this kind of stuff in some ways. Sorry, it's just part of my make up. Never-the-less, there was no one else around for them to marry and get them pregnant so they could carry on their father's bloodline.

Quote:

"it was gross I'll give you that" What the ....? Egads, were you there?

No I sure wasn't there. I'm glad to be honest. I think to have sex with your father is disgusting. It's incest. They did what they felt was right at the time to preserve their family bloodline. People do stuff like this every day. The only reason this appears to be a point to be argued is because it was documented in the bible.

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TOWER OF BABEL

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