Spirituality In The Artistic Sense

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At least I was right about your sense of humor, Chumly! Laughing

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Doktor S wrote:

Chumly wrote:
Doktor S wrote:
How logical or rational ones mind is has little to do with emotional appeal.
Our thinking mind is a tool, not a toolbox.

Art can also function on an rational / intellectual / esthetic level don't you think? Take for example a well engineered bridge.

I sure do. The rational mind can look at something and think 'That is a marvel of modern engineering' while still being in awe of it's size scope and aesthetic appeal on an emotional level. I think the two are separate functions of the brain, though.

What does your rational mind tell you about something that is inherently art first and foremost?

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Quote:

What does your rational mind tell you about something that is inherently art first and foremost?

Not a lot. I appreciate art as art.

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Doktor S wrote:

Quote:

What does your rational mind tell you about something that is inherently art first and foremost?

Not a lot. I appreciate art as art.

Are you then willing to say your rational mind cannot recognize art, if it is inherently art first and foremost?

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Chum-

Me and fm are mates.He wouldn't do that to ME.It's all in your own head.A fantasy.

fm kneading my balls.Don't be so bloody silly.He would find them quite distasteful I'm sure.

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Chumly wrote:

Doktor S wrote:
Quote:

What does your rational mind tell you about something that is inherently art first and foremost?

Not a lot. I appreciate art as art.
Are you then willing to say your rational mind cannot recognize art, if it is inherently art first and foremost?

The mind can categorize all kinds of abstract concepts, and put them in their appropriate little boxes, even art. So no, I am not willing to say 'that'

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Spendius,
I hope you at least got a chuckle, as it was rather at your expense, albeit harmlessly Very Happy

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Doktor S wrote:

Chumly wrote:
Doktor S wrote:
Quote:

What does your rational mind tell you about something that is inherently art first and foremost?

Not a lot. I appreciate art as art.
Are you then willing to say your rational mind cannot recognize art, if it is inherently art first and foremost?

The mind can categorize all kinds of abstract concepts, and put them in their appropriate little boxes, even art. So no, I am not willing to say 'that'

OK. Would it then be fair to say that you use your non-rational mind to recognize the art in question, and your rational mind to categorize it?

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To recognise it AS art, yes.
That I would say.

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I'm fairly surprised by what I gather is the general understanding that spirituality means some complex of emotion upon hearing music, aesthetic responses to art, ability to tap into one's creative core, and so on.

Me, I think of it as seeing an interconnection in all things that is in itself some kind of life force that people want to tap into with retreats, or chants, or meditation, and perhaps an openness to beliefs through the ages that relate to these matters.

This is so not me. I think of the breadth of all this as twaddle, and think of myself as the least spiritual person on a2k by my own observation.
Yet I insist I am creative, get emotional with the sounds of some music, and so on.

This is not to deny that there are indeed mechanistic explanations for interconnectedness.

I'd like to hear some of your definitions of spirituality.

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Doktor S wrote:

To recognise it AS art, yes.
That I would say.

OK. Then let's do an experiment

For the sake of argument would you be willing to accept that a sophisticated enough computer program could be wholly rational and exempt non-rationalities, and therefore be a fair portrayal of the rational part of your mind?

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ossobuco wrote:

I'd like to hear some of your definitions of spirituality.

That's the tough part alright, but I did try and provide such with two definitions at the beginning of the thread. The first one sits comfortably enough with me, and the second one gets at mite mushy.

Spiritual:
Devoted to the world of the mind; concerned with intellectual or imaginative things.
Of, relating to, or characteristic of another world, especially a mystical or transcendental world: "The effect was dreamy, otherworldly".

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What ossobucco said.

I'm not into spirituality at all, but I am someone who cries often at the beauty of music and spends his spare time trying to write his own symphonies.

Accuse me of being a romantic and an aesthete perhaps, but not in the least spiritual.

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Depending on your definition of the word, see above Smile

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Chumly wrote:

ossobuco wrote:
I'd like to hear some of your definitions of spirituality.
That's the tough part alright, but I did try and provide such with two definitions at the beginning of the thread. The first one sits comfortably enough with me, and the second one gets at mite mushy.

Spiritual:
Devoted to the world of the mind; concerned with intellectual or imaginative things.
Of, relating to, or characteristic of another world, especially a mystical or transcendental world: "The effect was dreamy, otherworldly".

In my opinion the first definition has nada to do with spirituality. Intellectuality, imagination, sensations of interconnectedness when hearing music - are all part of the life of the mind as brain function. I see spirituality as a mode of apprehending some working force behind what we observe.

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ossobuco wrote:

In my opinion the first definition has nada to do with spirituality.

Both definitions of spiritual are straight out of the dictionary.

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Art is rational.Once you have no objective criteria for judging the value of art it follows than anything is art.A Campbell's soup can say.

And art is held in such high esteem,and rightly so,that the world is jam-packed with imitation made for poseurs.I have even heard of ladies having a shot at it.

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spendius wrote:

Art is rational.Once you have no objective criteria for judging the value of art it follows than anything is art.A Campbell's soup can say.

And art is held in such high esteem,and rightly so,that the world is jam-packed with imitation made for poseurs.I have even heard of ladies having a shot at it.

Interesting perspective; at the least it exempts the issue of trying to differentiate between the rational and non-rational perspectives on art (whatever you deem art to be).

An interesting question arises in the definition of art and it's perception (rational and non-rational) if one classifies art into two broad categories:

1) Accidental-Random-Natural art

2) Intentional-Deliberate-Artificial art

As an aside, lack of objectivity does not implicitly mean rationality, in fact lack of objectivity suggests the non-rational.

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bookmarking....

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Spirituality In The Artistic Sense

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