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are people responsible for their behavior when drinking?

Forums: Philosophy
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Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2006 07:27 pm
In my opinion people should be held accountable for their actions no matter what. As soon as you start making concessions, you begin the road down a slippery slope that ends in a society where nobody is responsible for what they do. Kill a few people? Not your fault, it was your childhood.
Shoot up a school? Not your fault, it was the video-games.
Crash your car drunk? Not your fault, it was the alcohol.
BULL-FRIGGING-****.
The whole scapegoat culture we are immersed in makes me ill, as does the religion that spawned this mindset in western 'culture'
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echi
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2006 07:51 pm
Don't you have to be capable of making responsible decisions to be held responsible for the decisions you make?
Can an intoxicated person make responsible decisions? If so, why do we have drunk driving laws? If not, why do we prosecute drunk drivers?
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Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2006 08:47 pm
Echi,
Correct me if I am wrong, but are you arguing that willfully deciding to become inebriated absolves you of responsibility for your own actions while under the influence?
Quote:

Don't you have to be capable of making responsible decisions to be held responsible for the decisions you make?

What of the decision to get drunk in the first place? Is that decision a proverbial 'get out of jail free card' for all subsequent decisions?
That seem's somewhat of an untenable argument.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2006 09:37 pm
Yeah.

Total agreement on scapegoat culture, though I call it victim culture. "Oh, it's not my fault, I'm the victim here, I was driven to drinking that much and then once I had that much, well <helpless shrug>"
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Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2006 09:40 pm
sozobe,

Remember the other day I said something to you about believing that there is always responsibility on both parts of any participants in a situation? Something like that? Think it might be a good time to start a discussion on that?

Your statement just reminded me of that.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2006 09:42 pm
Sure, if you'd like.

I think my position there was that it depends -- sometimes it's both (to varying degrees, 1%/ 99% or 50%/50% or everything in between), sometimes it's only one.
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echi
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2006 09:43 pm
Doktor S wrote:
Echi,
Correct me if I am wrong, but are you arguing that willfully deciding to become inebriated absolves you of responsibility for your own actions while under the influence?


My position is the complete opposite. I think that being intoxicated should not absolve anyone from being held accountable for their actions, as I do not believe intoxication diminishes one's ability to reason (although it often highlights one's inability). Drunk driving laws IMO are ineffective and harmful. The focus should be on "bad" drivers, not "drunk" drivers.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2006 09:44 pm
Ok, give me a few minutes to think how to word it. What forum do you think it would be best suited?
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echi
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2006 09:45 pm
Momma Angel wrote:
sozobe,

Remember the other day I said something to you about believing that there is always responsibility on both parts of any participants in a situation? Something like that? Think it might be a good time to start a discussion on that?

Your statement just reminded me of that.


Start it up. Sounds great.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2006 09:47 pm
I dunno, Relationships & Marriage, maybe? It sounds like at its core it's about relationships... (not just romantic relationships, but the relationships humans have with each other...)
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2006 09:49 pm
Cool. That sounds good.

Done.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1820829#1820829
0 Replies
 
Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Jan, 2006 11:30 pm
echi wrote:
Doktor S wrote:
Echi,
Correct me if I am wrong, but are you arguing that willfully deciding to become inebriated absolves you of responsibility for your own actions while under the influence?


My position is the complete opposite. I think that being intoxicated should not absolve anyone from being held accountable for their actions, as I do not believe intoxication diminishes one's ability to reason (although it often highlights one's inability). Drunk driving laws IMO are ineffective and harmful. The focus should be on "bad" drivers, not "drunk" drivers.

Good then we are in agreement.
I stand corrected.
0 Replies
 
Beena
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Jan, 2006 09:55 am
Re: are people responsible for their behavior when drinking?
lenlav wrote:
I have an assignment to write an essay for my psychology class of whether or not to agree or disagree with the following: "People cannot be held responsible for their behavior when they are drinking." I do believe that a person is responsible, i wanted to disagree but am unable to find information regarding my position. I also know/think that rage is brought out of some people that are hurt, or have a lot of anger within them when drinking, and may act differently from when sober. Help i don't know what to do? Embarrassed and on top of being unsure i only have two weeks for the essay. Shocked


I would make the essay go like this -

While drinking, since the person is sober, he has to be responsible for his behaviour. First timers cannot be excused because they will naturally wary of the alcohol's effect. If a regular has been drinking and has been irresponsible and drank too much and lets say that that makes him rash and even violent, then he may or may not have known that alcohol can bring out that anger in him and make it more forceful. But if he knows that alcohol affects him that way and let's assume that he usually has some pent up anger in him, then clearly he has to be responsible for his drinking. So a person who drinks regularly and then shows violent behaviour must be held accountable for it. Anyone suggesting that this person cannot be held responsible for his behaviour should himself be held accountable for irresponsible behaviour.
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jan, 2006 06:36 pm
flushd wrote:

Even if someone slips ya some pills, you are still responsible for yourself.
For example: someone slips you a pill and then you in a drugged state decide to kill someone.
Well?
Who is responsible?


I think this is a bit harsh. If my ability to think and make sound judgements is altered by a drug without my knowledge, then how can I really be responsible for my actions?

Sure, if I chose to do that to myself, then I'm responsible...but if I didn't, no way !!


In some cases, I wouldn't even be aware that I had been drugged until afterwards.
0 Replies
 
extra medium
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jan, 2006 09:03 pm
In the law's view (in most jurisdictions), you are reponsible for your actions if you are voluntarily drunk.

However, in the rare case you are involuntarily drunk, you may not be responsible for your actions. (ie in the rare case that someone pointed a gun to your head and told you to drink or something like that...btw, Spendius often does this to me when we go drinking at those dark inglish pubs--thus I am often not responsible for my actions)
0 Replies
 
roverroad
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jan, 2006 09:20 pm
Speaking as a person who drinks, I'd say yes you are responsible for what you do. Because no matter how drunk you are, you still know what you are doing. You just have impaired judgement. You should know before you start drinking that you can do something that you will regret. You take on the responsibility when you take that first drink. That's why I only drink at home and I make sure that I have everything that I will need until I'm sober again before I venture out into public.

Though, it's possible to get into trouble at home too. You just have to watch your self. I think one can control their actions to an extent no matter how drunk they are. It's just easier to get carried away.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 29 Jan, 2006 09:55 pm
Hey, it's extra medium!

Long time no see!
0 Replies
 
flushd
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2006 12:01 am
Eorl wrote:
flushd wrote:

Even if someone slips ya some pills, you are still responsible for yourself.
For example: someone slips you a pill and then you in a drugged state decide to kill someone.
Well?
Who is responsible?


I think this is a bit harsh. If my ability to think and make sound judgements is altered by a drug without my knowledge, then how can I really be responsible for my actions?

Sure, if I chose to do that to myself, then I'm responsible...but if I didn't, no way !!


In some cases, I wouldn't even be aware that I had been drugged until afterwards.


I don't think it's harsh at all.

We as human beings don't ask for a lot of things to happen to us; and yet we are still responsible for what we do within the circumstances.

Of course, in a court of law, I'm sure it would be quite easy to sway the jury otherwise.
0 Replies
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2006 01:48 am
but flushd, we are not "dealing with circumstances" in this case, we are dealing with an alteration of the organ with which we do the "dealing"

I think it would be easy to sway the jury because it's easy see it as "fair"
0 Replies
 
flushd
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jan, 2006 05:09 am
Eorl,

Given my hypothetical case, the person should still have to be convicted for murder/manslaughter whatever.
The person killed.
The one who slipped the pills didn't.

It makes sense to take the state of the person into consideration, but it does not automatically delete a person's responsibility for themself.

Think of the implications if it did. Or rather, just look around.
"It wasn't my fault I did it, he/she/it did something to me !"
0 Replies
 
 

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