What God Truly Is?

I, personally, am very disappointed in Sturgis. I had seen signs of rationality until this thread.

0 Replies

[quote="dyslexia"]I, personally, am very disappointed in Sturgis. I had seen signs of rationality until this thread.[/quote]
Why is that, dys? Because He believes in God? Hmmm. Isn't that like being discriminatory or something? :wink:

0 Replies

Momma Angel wrote:

[quote="dyslexia"]I, personally, am very disappointed in Sturgis. I had seen signs of rationality until this thread.

Why is that, dys? Because He believes in God? Hmmm. Isn't that like being discriminatory or something? :wink: [/b][/color][/quote]
nope, I had seen evidence of sturgis evidencing rationality and watched it evaporporate. I guess ma you don't see the idea that I disagree with someone and yet hold them in esteem. sad really.

0 Replies

dys,

Actually, I do see that. Can you please tell me what it was that sturgis posted that you think made evidence of his rationality change? Dys, I disagree with a lot of what you say. But, I hold you in high regard because of your honesty.

0 Replies

Momma Angel wrote:

Questioner Wrote:

Quote:
Apparently nothing. Continue holding to your ridiculous metaphor if you wish.

Ok, try this then. Explain sight to a person born blind. Explain sound to a person born deaf.

MA, I see what you're trying to get out here, but I fail to see how it's pertinent. Ok, so you say you can't explain red to a blind person. You can't explain sound to a deaf person.

Fine.

The problem with your argument is that we are all born with the capacity to know God, but according to your scriptures some of us just choose not to believe.

0 Replies

Sturgis states: "If you are so sure that God does not exist then why are you panicked when I say God does exist?"

It is not that we are "so sure" in the sense that we have proof of His non-existence. If I may speak for other non-theists here, we do not disbelieve in the non-existence of unicorns because we have proof of their non-existence; it's because we see no reason to believe in their existence. Similarly, we see no evidence to support the theistic thesis, and we only challenge theists to convince us with the evidence that convinced them. Panic has nothing to do with it.

0 Replies

JLNobody,

Five gold stars for you! Bingo! This is what I am trying to get at! How can I "give" you my experience with God? How can I make you feel God? I can't anymore than I can make you see red.

But, it doesn't mean I don't feel Him.

0 Replies

Quote:

Explain sight to a person born blind. Explain sound to a person born deaf.

No explaination is needed. Evidence is needed.

We already know that phenomenalism is faulty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenomenalism

But we aren't phenomenalists. I don't think any of us are.
But there is a difference between sound, light, and god. While there is evidence for sound and light, there is no evidence for god.

Quote:

Five gold stars for you! Bingo! This is what I am trying to get at! How can I "give" you my experience with God? How can I make you feel God? I can't anymore than I can make you see red.

Evidence, sir. Round up some other people who apparently "felt" god. And give evidence of how they affected the physical world. If anything, your experience with God is just a phenomenon in your brain.

0 Replies

Aktorist, bravo. MA tells us she has a private experience, but she also tells, or suggests, to us that there is good reason for us to pursue the achievement of the kind of state of mind that predisposes her to "faith". I do something similar regarding the mystical perspective. But I have no PUBLIC evidence to support my PRIVATE experience. Ergo, I will talk about what I believe, but I will not, or feel I should not, tell people why they should also take my perspective. It is not a matter of convincing evidence but of personal preparation ( e.g., meditation) for a private experience.
Theists only tell us that we should have faith in the existence of their God but do not tell us how to prepare ourselves to achieive that state of faith. For that reason, Momma Angel should have retired from these discussions after announcing the joy she has from her faith.

0 Replies

Excuse me! Uh, excuse me! This has nothing to do with evidence! You guys are getting totally off the point here.

It's about explaining an experience so someone else can understand it. SCIENCE AND EVIDENCE ARE USELESS! (Caps for emphasis only!)

Why do you keep bringing in evidence? To these three people evidence is useless! Charlotte cannot see the evidence of red. Sandy cannot see the evidence of sight and David cannot hear the evidence of sound.

Basic, simple experience. Geesh! C'mon guys, I know you are all extremely intelligent but why are you making this more complicated than it is?

0 Replies

Sturgis wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:
Sturgis wrote:
See the tree how big it's grown but friends it hasn't been too long it was a twig...

in other words something made all these things happen and that something was God.

What is your reason for believing that it wasn't simply natural processes like evolution? What suggests that it was God and not a more mundane explanation?

I just know.

So does someone who thinks he's Napoleon.

0 Replies

Momma Angel wrote:

Brandon Wrote:

Quote:
I'm certainly passing judgement on what you say. I am evaluating your stated arguments in support of your belief, as I have a perfect right to do. I find them to be invalid. Your sole argument in support of the existence of God is, "I know it, but I can't explain it." That is not a valid argument. Since you cannot provide the tiniest shred of evidence to support your belief, then what is left other than self-deception based on need?

Brandon, you know the color red. Can you explain it to a color blind person? Can you explain to a deaf person that has never heard what sound is?

Your argument, "I just know, but I can't share the experience," could be used to prove that the universe was created by a committee of 12 Gods. News flash: "I just know it" is the argument of a child. The fact that there are some experiences that cannot be shared in no way indicates that you are justified in a particular theory of the universe with no sign that it's true. The fact is that if there is a God, one would expect to find some evidence lying about that he exists.

Now, please answer this question just as I've asked it without your usual self-serving misinterpretations: What, hypothetically, if someone says "I just know it" to support an incorrect opinion? Not you, just a hypothetical person with some opinion.

If "I just know" is the best and only argument you've got for the existence of God, that is truly pathetic.

0 Replies

Doktor S wrote:

God is the man in the mirror, for no one has such a profound impact on my destiny as he.

I agree that each person has the most profound impact on his or her own destiny - but I think the majority of problems of the world are intensified when a man or woman is so self-absorbed and self-aggrandizing to call themselves God - or even "a (minor) god".

I like my friend's explanation that "God is Love" or "God is Good(ness) because I believe if more of us made love our God or goodness our God, many of the pathologies in our world would be alleviated or even non-existent.

And Brandon - I can't really prove a lot of things, except theorems in Geometry or the fact that mixing blue and red make purple. But, I don't need proof of something before I consider it valuable or sensible or enlightening or enriching. For instance, I can't prove my mother loves me - but I know she does. I see the world and have had experiences in it that have led me to feel that God exists.

Is there anything that you have felt or seen in your life that you can't quanitifiably prove or measure- but that you still rely on?

0 Replies

And by the way - I know believe in a God because I want to. But I also believe in the goodness of my children and the kindness of strangers and that my car will start in the morning because I want to, along with the fact that I have had experiences that show me that it is reasonable to believe these things- so I don't accept that I'm not reasonable or living in a fairy talebecause I believe in a creator. In fact, I'd like someone to tell me (if anyone can) with cited proof - exactly when and how the earth was created- and that there is a definitive consensus that it wasn't engineered in some way.

Because I think it's a given that people (in general )accept concepts and beliefs and theories more readily if they find them interesting or compatible with who they see themselves to be, and with what fits into their construct of the world as they see it. They accept what's comfortable for them to accept (for some it's Science, for some it's God) and deny what's uncomfortable.

0 Replies

Very well put Aidan.

0 Replies

God is 'He who causes to become.' Another good thread on this topic, which I shall now shamelessly promote, may be found here:
http://able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1707217#1707217

0 Replies

Paul Bloom has written an article called "Is God An Accident?", that I haven't read yet, but from the letters to the editor that have been written about it, it sounds interesting. In it he is putting forth the idea that some people (in fact, the majority of humans because 95% profess belief in one form or another of God) are genetically hard-wired to embrace the belief of the existence of God while others are not. Socialization then determines which form of God they will or will not embrace.

But I think it's important to make the distinction that everyone has a god - something they worship - put all of their faith and time and energy into. For some it's their children, themselves, fame, money - something they embrace and exalt above everything else. I choose to embrace the wonder and the mystery of the God that I believe created the earth and gave me the gift of the people in my life whom I love. Why is that less sensible than worshipping the almighty dollar or cold hard fact?

0 Replies

Aidan, interesting thread, and I like what both you and your friend say about just what exactly is God.

I read the Acquarian Gospel some time ago and never forgot one verse, "If you want to know God, study yourself, if you want to know God more, study yourself more."

I never set out to "study myself" purposely but I do think that when we've made an observation that something is true then we'll receive mysterious assistance that sends us down the road to understanding ourself. Such as counseling, journaling, visiting bookstores and libraries "knowing" we'll choose the right books for what we need to know about the workings of the human brain/mind in conjunction with the body.

Of course, knowing something intellectually is a mere beginning. If we wish to leave this planet with nary another reincarnation here it's necessary to be physically in touch with God, become that, and live from it. So, I agree with whoever said that person in the mirror is "God" at least asmuchas we are God's children now but certainly must mature into what we're intended -- co-creators. And, we certainly don't get anywhere near that without knowing "God is love" and "Love is God."

0 Replies

aidan wrote:

...And Brandon - I can't really prove a lot of things, except theorems in Geometry or the fact that mixing blue and red make purple. But, I don't need proof of something before I consider it valuable or sensible or enlightening or enriching. For instance, I can't prove my mother loves me - but I know she does. I see the world and have had experiences in it that have led me to feel that God exists.

First of all, I would like to say that virtually no one on this board, and especially not me, has requested proof of the existence of God. We - not proof.

As to your statement about your mother, it is logically fallacious. Some people's mothers do not love them. If you feel that yours does, it is undoubtedly because you have seen evidence of it during your life, which is all I need to believe in a God - some evidence that suggests he probably exists.

0 Replies

aidan wrote:

And by the way - I know believe in a God because I want to. But I also believe in the goodness of my children and the kindness of strangers and that my car will start in the morning because I want to, along with the fact that I have had experiences that show me that it is reasonable to believe these things- so I don't accept that I'm not reasonable or living in a fairy talebecause I believe in a creator. In fact, I'd like someone to tell me (if anyone can) with cited proof - exactly when and how the earth was created- and that there is a definitive consensus that it wasn't engineered in some way.

Physicists solved this problem long ago. It's not really my specialty, but they have a good theory for how solar systems coalesce from interstellar matter. The theory predicts the oberved nature of the sun and the planets in some detal, I believe, including their rotation. However, even if we have no scientific explanation of some phenomenon, it does not make it logical to accept an explanation with no evidence that it is the correct one. It is illogical to say, I don't know where rain comes from, therefore I am correct to believe it is the tears of invisible, supernatural mice who live in the sky.

0 Replies

What God Truly Is?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know