What produces RUTHLESS DICTATORS?

That's all very interesting.

So Hitler was a Socialist, but instead of believing that the bourgeoisie was trying to reshape society he believed that the Jews were conspiring against the German people.... and instead of the ideological mantra of internationalism that permeates Socialism, he instead erected a strictly nationalist regime.... and instead of fighting for the working classes, he thought that only Germans of pure Aryan blood were worth his consideration...

So, in other words: Hitler was a Socialist, in spite of the fact that he didn't really believe in Socialist doctrine. Instead, he believed something entirely different.

Your misinterpretation of the book turned me off.

Your inability to learn from actual experience as expressed in your many posts on a2k, you really haven't learned much about reality, economics and politics.

There is no comparison to be made between Obama and Hitler. You're the only one in this world that's coming to your own conclusion about comparisons without properly observing the Obama presidency, and not understanding Hitler and who he was.

According to you, the American people are too stupid to see the comparison.

In a country with a population of over 300 million people, how is it that you're the only one who can see this comparison? I'm sure there are still plenty of Americans who read Mein Kampf. Strange isn't it?

You say Obama learned from Reverend Wright. Please tell us what he learned, and how he's practicing what he learned from Reverend Wright?

What is "Black Liberation Theology?"

Did you know that Obama is half white? Are you telling us that Obama hates his "whiteness?" Obama was raised by his white mother and white grandmother. How did you arrive at the "railing against Jews, whites, and capitalists?"

How and when did he ever express that "America is unfair?" Please show us the statement Obama made that expresses this sentiment?

You even know what "he envisions." Who gave you that "power?" You know what people envisions?

What is it that Obama "would ultimately like to do?" I'm sure your cyrstal ball is as hazy as ever.

Where do you dream up all this crap?

He believed in socialist doctrine, but for the "folks." Yes, it was a form of nationalistic socialism. The COMMON GOOD (for the "folks"), that was one of the primary Nazi points, to be defended to the death.

You know, oe, you can believe what you want, and you can believe what you have been taught, you live in Germany, but the thing you cannot change, you cannot change what Hitler wrote and believed, it is recorded for anyone to read, and that includes anyone, it is not restricted to intellectuals that live in Germany that went to the university.

I will pick out that one question from your post. A good question, and I have done some reading on it. It would do you well to research it, ci, you might learn something. During the campaign, Obama's former church, or church at that time, had a website with pretty good explanations about its beliefs, and it was in fact very revealing. I don't know if the site is still up or not. If you would have read it, you would have realized it was more of a political belief than a religious belief, but some people's religion is politics, and vice versa. My study of Obama and reading his book, it kind of fits together, the guy is a troubling character. It would do you well to study his life, his religion, and his politics, in a more thorough way than simply falling for some vague notion of "change," and the fact that he talks slick and draws big crowds.

The core elements of Nazism are violent anti-Semitism, rampant nationalism and a firm belief in the superiority of the Aryan race.

What you're saying is that if you only ignore these defining elements, National Socialism is virtually identical to some other political ideology. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me, I have to say.

You're not answering my questions. You give hints and make innuendos but you still haven't shown the relationship between Obama and your claims.

All you've provided so far is your personal opinion. Not good enough!@

Hoover Institute fellow Stanley Kurtz, in a political commentary in National Review, wrote about black liberation theology-

Cone defines it as "complete emancipation of black people from white oppression by whatever means black people deem necessary." For Cone, the deeply racist structure of American society leaves blacks with no alternative but radical transformation or social withdrawal. So-called Christianity, as commonly practiced in the United States, is actually the racist Antichrist. "Theologically," Cone affirms, "Malcolm X was not far wrong when he called the white man 'the devil.'" The false Christianity of the white-devil oppressor must be replaced by an authentic Christianity fully identified with the poor and oppressed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Hal_Cone

oe, you can practice socialism in a nationalistic way, not just international, whats so hard for you to see that? Fact is, socialism or communism have yet to take over the world, yet, although I know many liberals yearn for that day.

And you might do well to read up on Black Liberation Theology, oe. marsz gave a good introduction in the above post. Funny, hatred of Jews keeps popping up, again and again.

Benito Mussolini was a socialist and earned the title “Il Duce” as the leader of the socialists in Italy. When he founded the fascist party, its program called for implementing a minimum wage, expropriating property from landowners, repealing titles of nobility, creating state-run secular schools and imposing a progressive tax rate. Mussolini took socialism and turned it in a more populist and militaristic direction, but remained a modernizing, secular man of the left.

The Nazis too were socialists, “enemies, deadly enemies, of today’s capitalist economic system,” in the words of the party’s ideologist Gregor Strasser. The party’s platform sounded a lot like that of the Italian fascists. The Nazis wanted to chase conventional Christianity from public life and overturn tradition, replacing them with an all-powerful state. Both Hitler and Mussolini were revolutionaries, bitterly opposed to “reactionary” forces in their societies.

By what standard, then, are they considered conservatives who took things to extremes? The left points to their anti-Semitism and militarism. But anti-Semitism isn’t an inherently right-wing phenomenon " Stalin’s Russia was anti-Semitic. As for militarism, these regimes looked to it as a way to mobilize and organize society, something deeply anathema to the anti-statist tradition of postwar American conservatism.

On the other hand, the progressive movement of the early 20th century looked to Mussolini as an inspiration and shared intellectual roots with European fascism, including an appreciation of the “top-down socialism” of Otto von Bismarck.

http://liberalfascism.nationalreview.com/

Well, by the same token I can argue that modern American Republicanism is virtually identical to Hitler's National Socialism. Granted, modern Republicans don't propagate anti-Semitism or Aryan superiority, but if you ignore those core elements of these two political ideologies, there's hardly any difference at all. Republicans happily invaded several countries under the guise of pre-emptive military intervention - just like Hitler did in the September Campaign. They also believe that their country is the best country in the world. Just like Hitler.

See, you can practice National Socialism in a Republican way, not just in a National Socialist way. And fact is, Republicanism has yet to take over the world, yet, although I know many conservatives yearn for that day.

Having said that, you can obviously believe what you want, and you can believe what you have been spoonfed, you live in Oklahoma, but the thing you cannot change, you cannot change what the Republicans write and believe, it is recorded for anyone to read, and that includes anyone, it is not restricted to conservative apologists who live in Oklahoma.

Well said, marsz. All is in total agreement with everything I have read. Great points about Mussolini.

I believe the somewhat successful depiction of Hitler as a right wing extremist has been one of the biggest myths perpetrated upon us in the 20th century. Mostly by European intellectuals and leftward American historians, driven by their desire to direct any blame in the other direction. But I think more and more people are waking up to the truth of this issue, and as I said to oe, history is recorded, and so history is not the sole property of leftist historians and intellectuals.

You're usually in full agreement with the Possum.

All total nonsense, oe, there is little or no resemblance at all to Republicans here. If you want to compare invasions, to show how nonsensical that statement is, yes we also invaded France and a few other countries, to stop Hitler. Are you going to use that as proof that we are like Hitler? Hitler hated our guts, as he hated the British, or any other country that stood in his way.

If you want to compare parties, LBJ started Vietnam, and if you want to talk about now, what is Obama doing in Afghanistan? oe, you have much to learn about the United States. And most everyone I know, both Republican and Democrat, both rightly believe the United States is a pretty good place to live. Maybe Obama doesn't, but he is one of a very small minority.

If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything.

Liberals adopted eugenics " a basic part of Nazi doctrine " which was not, as some liberal intellectuals have argued, an outgrowth of conservative thought. Fans of Margaret Sanger, perhaps the single most important feminist hero of the 20th century, will never be able to think of her in the same way. A socialist and birth-control martyr, she favored banning reproduction of the "unfit" and regulation of everyone else's reproduction. She wrote, "More children from the fit, less from the unfit " that is the chief issue of birth control." She opposed the birth of "ill-bred, ill-trained swarms of inferior citizens." Her words reveal her motive in advocacy of birth control. She sought to remove "inferior" people from being born to poor people, whose mothers by definition were "unfit." Sanger's partisans in Planned Parenthood, the group that stemmed from her work, will be shocked to learn that her publication endorsed the Nazi eugenics program, and that Sanger herself "proudly gave a speech to a KKK rally." That was not surprising, since she clearly viewed blacks as inferior. Hence her "Negro Project," in which she sought to urge blacks to adopt birth control.


http://www.nysun.com/arts/americas-fascist-moment/68954/

You ignore all the core elements that define National Socialism, and claim that what's left - rants against greed and authoritarianism - clearly should that National Socialism and Socialism are virtually the same.

Yet when I ignore the core elements of National Socialism and find that the rest of Hitler's policies are virtually identical to Republicanism, you whine and complain?

That's interesting.

The 25 Points of Hitler's Nazi Party

1. We demand the union of all Germans in a Great Germany on the basis of the principle of self-determination of all peoples.

2. We demand that the German people have rights equal to those of other nations; and that the Peace Treaties of Versailles and St. Germain shall be abrogated.

3. We demand land and territory (colonies) for the maintenance of our people and the settlement of our surplus population.

4. Only those who are our fellow countrymen can become citizens. Only those who have German blood, regardless of creed, can be our countrymen. Hence no Jew can be a countryman.

5. Those who are not citizens must live in Germany as foreigners and must be subject to the law of aliens.

6. The right to choose the government and determine the laws of the State shall belong only to citizens. We therefore demand that no public office, of whatever nature, whether in the central government, the province, or the municipality, shall be held by anyone who is not a citizen.

We wage war against the corrupt parliamentary administration whereby men are appointed to posts by favor of the party without regard to character and fitness.

7. We demand that the State shall above all undertake to ensure that every citizen shall have the possibility of living decently and earning a livelihood. If it should not be possible to feed the whole population, then aliens (non-citizens) must be expelled from the Reich.

8. Any further immigration of non-Germans must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who have entered Germany since August 2, 1914, shall be compelled to leave the Reich immediately.

9. All citizens must possess equal rights and duties.

10. The first duty of every citizen must be to work mentally or physically. No individual shall do any work that offends against the interest of the community to the benefit of all.

Therefore we demand:

11. That all unearned income, and all income that does not arise from work, be abolished.

12. Since every war imposes on the people fearful sacrifices in blood and treasure, all personal profit arising from the war must be regarded as treason to the people. We therefore demand the total confiscation of all war profits.

13. We demand the nationalization of all trusts.

14. We demand profit-sharing in large industries.

15. We demand a generous increase in old-age pensions.

16. We demand the creation and maintenance of a sound middle-class, the immediate communalization of large stores which will be rented cheaply to small tradespeople, and the strongest consideration must be given to ensure that small traders shall deliver the supplies needed by the State, the provinces and municipalities.

17. We demand an agrarian reform in accordance with our national requirements, and the enactment of a law to expropriate the owners without compensation of any land needed for the common purpose. The abolition of ground rents, and the prohibition of all speculation in land.

18. We demand that ruthless war be waged against those who work to the injury of the common welfare. Traitors, usurers, profiteers, etc., are to be punished with death, regardless of creed or race.

19. We demand that Roman law, which serves a materialist ordering of the world, be replaced by German common law.

20. In order to make it possible for every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education, and thus the opportunity to reach into positions of leadership, the State must assume the responsibility of organizing thoroughly the entire cultural system of the people. The curricula of all educational establishments shall be adapted to practical life. The conception of the State Idea (science of citizenship) must be taught in the schools from the very beginning. We demand that specially talented children of poor parents, whatever their station or occupation, be educated at the expense of the State.

21. The State has the duty to help raise the standard of national health by providing maternity welfare centers, by prohibiting juvenile labor, by increasing physical fitness through the introduction of compulsory games and gymnastics, and by the greatest possible encouragement of associations concerned with the physical education of the young.

22. We demand the abolition of the regular army and the creation of a national (folk) army.

23. We demand that there be a legal campaign against those who propagate deliberate political lies and disseminate them through the press. In order to make possible the creation of a German press, we demand:

(a) All editors and their assistants on newspapers published in the German language shall be German citizens.

(b) Non-German newspapers shall only be published with the express permission of the State. They must not be published in the German language.

(c) All financial interests in or in any way affecting German newspapers shall be forbidden to non-Germans by law, and we demand that the punishment for transgressing this law be the immediate suppression of the newspaper and the expulsion of the non-Germans from the Reich.

Newspapers transgressing against the common welfare shall be suppressed. We demand legal action against those tendencies in art and literature that have a disruptive influence upon the life of our folk, and that any organizations that offend against the foregoing demands shall be dissolved.

24. We demand freedom for all religious faiths in the state, insofar as they do not endanger its existence or offend the moral and ethical sense of the Germanic race.

The party as such represents the point of view of a positive Christianity without binding itself to any one particular confession. It fights against the Jewish materialist spirit within and without, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our folk can only come about from within on the pinciple:

COMMON GOOD BEFORE INDIVIDUAL GOOD

25. In order to carry out this program we demand: the creation of a strong central authority in the State, the unconditional authority by the political central parliament of the whole State and all its organizations.

The formation of professional committees and of committees representing the several estates of the realm, to ensure that the laws promulgated by the central authority shall be carried out by the federal states.

The leaders of the party undertake to promote the execution of the foregoing points at all costs, if necessary at the sacrifice of their own lives.

___
Hitler's policies are virtually identical to Republicanism?????????

Nationalism, as practised by the NSDAP and other contemporary right-wing parties certainly is something very different to "nationalistic way".


I don't think that any member of the NSDAP knew about the Black Liberation Theology, so they perhaps were aware of Luther's anti-Jewish comments (e.g. in his sermon in Jena, 1543, and in his pamphlet about the "Jew's sow" relief in the Wittenberg parish church)



'Judensau' was a very common term in Nazi Germany.

I suppose, you can do so with any party program - be it on the left or on the right - and thus "shift" it to the other corner or any part of the political spectrum you want them to have for your own purposes.

However, usually such is done with the NSDAP only by Holocaust deniers.

Since you, okie, so constantly refer to the names of parties (national-SOCIALISTIC), so the National-LIBERAL-party was a left wing party as well? And when they split in 1918/9, who was more on the left, the german-DEMOCRATIC-party or the german-national-PEOPLES-party?

Nonsense.


From the statutes of the Partito Nazionale Fascista (P.N.F.):



[quote0http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duce]From wikipedia[/quote]