What produces RUTHLESS DICTATORS?

@ican711nm,

ican, The two sentences you presented does not equate in any shape or form.
You are an idiot! If you wish to compare apples and kumquats, go talk to some kindergarten children, they might understand you!

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@Walter Hinteler,

Anyone who tries to analyze Hitler's ideology is missing the point of what makes ruthless dictators "ruthless". I seriously doubt that Hitler had a political ideology.

He certainly had a vast hatred, but I suspect he simply sought power however and wherever he could find it.

Walter Hinteler wrote:

I truly think that most misunderstanding by those few Americans, who still believe what okies has studied from their websites don't know a lot about German, neither the language nor the culture.

There's a difference between a "misunderstanding", which can be corrected, and a deliberate attempt to twist the truth, which is what Okie's attempting.

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@okie,

Quote:

Causation? So if little kids torture animals, does it cause them to be criminals?

Maybe but there is no evidence of that. You can think it does but it is nothing more than a logical fallacy without some direct evidence.

Quote:

If little kids have certain experiences when little, it may also cause them to want to torture animals, so cause or just a common denominator, it must have something to do with it.

No, there is no "must". Without showing a direct link it is nothing more than correlation. There is no evidence that it is the cause only that there is a correlation.

Here is an example of your logic okie.
Hitler, Mussolino, Castro and all other evil dictators are men. Therefor being a man leads to evil dictators.

Quote:

As to whether it is a cause, yes at least in part, but many things have to come together for it to happen.

So, present your evidence. You have only listed things you THINK are the same in all dictators. Not only have you not presented evidence of causation there is dispute whether what you claimed even exists in the persons you claimed it did.

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@parados,

parados, You're trying to explain logic to somebody that hasn't any sense of facts or evidence.

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@parados,

parados wrote:

Quote:
Causation? So if little kids torture animals, does it cause them to be criminals?
Maybe but there is no evidence of that. You can think it does but it is nothing more than a logical fallacy without some direct evidence.

Quote:
If little kids have certain experiences when little, it may also cause them to want to torture animals, so cause or just a common denominator, it must have something to do with it.
No, there is no "must". Without showing a direct link it is nothing more than correlation. There is no evidence that it is the cause only that there is a correlation.

Here is an example of your logic okie.
Hitler, Mussolino, Castro and all other evil dictators are men. Therefor being a man leads to evil dictators.

Quote:
As to whether it is a cause, yes at least in part, but many things have to come together for it to happen.
So, present your evidence. You have only listed things you THINK are the same in all dictators. Not only have you not presented evidence of causation there is dispute whether what you claimed even exists in the persons you claimed it did.

Are you sane, Parados?

By the way, interesting you mention Mussolini, I did not cover that guy in my discussion I don't think, but some reading last night, and surprise, he also fits alot of the same stuff I listed for common denonominators. But of course this apparently means nothing to you at all.

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@okie,

parados is sane; you're out of your freq'n mind.

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@ican711nm,

ican711nm wrote:

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

I would have others LET ME keep what I lawfully earn to lawfully spend for whatever I want.

THEREFORE,
I let OTHERS keep what THEY lawfully earn to lawfully spend for whatever THEY want.

Amen, ican, you get it. It gives me hope that some people still have ability to think logically!

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@okie,

It's because you misinterpret most things you read. "Do unto others..." has nothing to do with your perception of what you think it is. You have a huge problem with comprehension.

1 Reply

@okie,

Quote:

I would have others LET ME keep what I lawfully earn to lawfully spend for whatever I want.

But that doesn't mean anything surely. You have that privilege all the time. Who is suggesting unlawfully stopping you in either case?

1 Reply

@spendius,

Obama with his healthcare proposal is threatening to prevent me--also those I love--from LETTING ME--THEM--keep what I--THEY--lawfully earn to lawfully spend for whatever I--THEY--want.

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@ican711nm,

You haven't provided any evidence for your claim. Typical conservative bitching.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

It's because you misinterpret most things you read. "Do unto others..." has nothing to do with your perception of what you think it is. You have a huge problem with comprehension.

I took my grandson fishing. He wanted to catch the fish himself, he did not want me to catch it for him and then give it to him. Same with me, I don't want him fishing with my fishing pole all day either, so I treat him the way I want to be treated. Now, if you are an infant in a cradle, you do want everything provided for you, you would not even know how to fish, nor would you be able to. Hopefully, citizens are grown up enough not to want the government to do everything for them, or everyone else working and paying for their upkeep, while they sit on their behind doing nothing. I think that is what ican is talking about.

Do unto others as you would like them to do unto you. Now, if you want to sit on your behind and let everyone else give you everything, question, how do they give you anything if they are also sitting on their behind, waiting for you to give them something that you don't have to give?

1 Reply

@okie,

Your fear that everybody wants our government to do everything for them is not only misplaced but based in the twilight zone. Americans are producers of goods and services, and we create many of the new high tech and biotech in the world. That will not change for many generations to come unless our government fails our children in their education.

Your fish story is just that; fishy, and its been dead a long time ago.

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Mussolini was mentioned, so looked up some stuff on his childhood, etc. Here was my 3 common denominators for ruthless dictators:

1 - Dysfunctional family and troubled childhood that extends into adulthood. This includes troubled spousal relationships and other relationships as adults.
2 - Rejection and/or hate for religious belief, sometimes despite training as a child. As they grow into adulthood, they have a hatred or unresolved resentment toward certain groups, races, or religion.
3 - They perceive injustice from childhood and develop a burning desire to dominate, gain power, and right the wrongs toward society and to them as they view it. Typically there is a hate for business and private enterprise, as it is viewed as unfair and the cause of much injustice and suffering, and religion is also viewed as a failure, so government and they are the hope of righting the wrongs and creating their vision of utopia on earth.

Here is the info. on Mussolini, which appears to have pretty good correlation to the above 3 points. The sort of weird one that keeps popping up is that alot of these guys were sent off to boarding schools, often religious ones, perhaps in efforts to get them out of their hair or try to straighten them out, but perhaps it is perceived by them in their childhood development as a rejection of them by their parents?

Anyway, it is pretty clear that Mussolini was a leftist.

"Mussolini was born into a working class background; his father Alessandro Mussolini was a blacksmith and an Anarchist activist ,[4] while his mother Rosa Mussolini (née Maltoni) was a school teacher and a devout Catholic.[5] Owing to his father's political leanings, Mussolini was named Benito after Mexican reformist President Benito Juárez, while his middle names Andrea and Amilcare were from Italian socialists Andrea Costa and Amilcare Cipriani.[6] Benito was the eldest of his parents' three children. His siblings Arnaldo and Edvige followed.[7]

As a young boy, Mussolini would spend time helping his father in his blacksmithing.[8] It was likely here that he was exposed to his father's significant political beliefs. Alessandro was a socialist and a republican, but also held some nationalistic views, especially in regards to some of the Italians who were living under the rule of the Austro-Hungarian Empire,[8] which were not consistent with the internationalist socialism of the time. The conflict between his parents about religion meant that, unlike most Italians, Mussolini was not baptised at birth and would not be until much later in life. However, as a compromise with his mother, Mussolini was sent to a boarding school run by Salesian monks. Mussolini was rebellious and was expelled after a series of behaviour related incidents, including throwing stones at the congregation after Mass, stabbing a fellow student in the hand and throwing an inkpot at a teacher. [8] After joining a new school, Mussolini achieved good grades, and qualified as an elementary schoolmaster in 1901.[5][6]

In 1902, Mussolini emigrated to Switzerland partly to avoid military service.[4] He worked as a stone mason and during this time studied the ideas of Nietzche, the sociologist Pareto and the syndicalist Sorel. Mussolini also, later in life, credited as influences on his thought the French Marxian Convert Charles Péguy who started a Socialist but became a convert to Roman Catholicism, and Hubert Lagardelle (also a French Syndicalist).[4] Sorel's emphasis on the need for overthrowing decadent liberal Democracy and Capitalism by the use of violence, direct action, the general strike, and the use of neo-Machiavellian appeals to emotion, impressed him deeply.[4] He was unable to find a permanent job in Switzerland, and was at one point arrested for vagrancy and jailed for one night. While in Switzerland he picked up speaking knowledge of French and a smattering of German. Later, after becoming involved in the socialist movement, he was deported to Italy and volunteered for military service. After his two years of service he returned to teaching.

Political journalist and Socialist
Soon he joined the Marxian Socialist movement . In February 1908 in the city of Trento as secretary of the local chamber of labor, which was ethnically Italian but then under the control of Austria-Hungary. While there he wrote The Cardinal's Mistress which was bitterly anticlerical and years later had to be withdrawn from circulation after he made his truce with the Vatican [4] He did office work for the local socialist party and edited its newspaper L'Avvenire del Lavoratore ("The Future of the Worker").

By 1910 Mussolini returned to Forli where he edited the weekly Lotta di classe. He was now one of Italy's most prominent Socialists. In 1911 (September), there was a riot by Socialists, and Mussolini with them, in Forlì, against the Italian war in Libya. He bitterly denounced the "imperialist war" to gain Tripoli, an action which earned him a five month jail term. [9] After his release he helped expel from the ranks of the Socialist party two 'revisionists' who had supported the war, Ivanhoe Bonimi, and leonida Bissolati. For that he was rewarded with the editorship of the Socialist party newspaper Avanti! Its circulation soon rose from 20,000 to 100,000.[10] During this time he had become important enough for the Italian police to write the following (excepts) police report prepared by the Inspector-General of Public Security in Milan, G. Gasti"

More on Mussolini here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benito_Mussolini

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@okie,

okie, Your buckshot psychoanalysis doesn't even come close, but I'm going to let someone else try to explain why. Your attempt to explain anything and everything is so far off, I'm not sure how you obtain your information. I know for sure it's not from understanding anything you read.

Your brain is already cemented with the idea that everything bad is "leftist."

You don't have a clue to real life nor perception for anything in it.

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@okie,

I suppose, okie, you do know about Italian history (and culture) in the 19th and early 20th century, do you?

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@Foxfyre,

Foxfyre wrote:

The General Welfare clause of the US Constitution, as the Founders saw it, was related to those activities of government that would benefit the whole of society such as street lights or a city sewer system. There was no intent to benefit any individual or organization or group with that concept.

You're wrong. In this nation, even before its official formation, it was always deemed a public responsibility to care for the poor, the sick, and the elderly and to use taxes for that purpose. There are far too many historical examples of our "founders" using taxes to assist the needy for you to claim there was "no intent" for taxes to benefit individuals or groups.

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@okie,

I am sane okie.

You however don't seem to want to deal with my argument. You instead lead off with a logical fallacy in attacking my sanity rather than my argument.

Mussolini also was an oxygen breather. Oh.. so was every other dictator. Of course not everyone that breathes oxygen becomes a dictator but all it takes is a few other factors.

Simply because you find a correlation doesn't mean a thing okie. The problem with your argument is you start with a premise then only find the facts that support it while ignoring everything else. You have not presented what makes a dictator. You have presented what makes a human and then narrowed it down to try to make it apply to dictators with no discussion of what is and isn't a cause versus a correlation or even if the items you recognize are perhaps symptoms of something else entirely.

1 Reply

@okie,

okie wrote:

Mussolini was mentioned, so looked up some stuff on his childhood, etc. Here was my 3 common denominators for ruthless dictators:

1 - Dysfunctional family and troubled childhood that extends into adulthood. This includes troubled spousal relationships and other relationships as adults.

Sounds exactly like GWBush.

Quote:

2 - Rejection and/or hate for religious belief, sometimes despite training as a child. As they grow into adulthood, they have a hatred or unresolved resentment toward certain groups, races, or religion.

Sounds like GW Bush if we accept it also applies to Mussolini "To gain credibility with the Roman Catholic Church, Mussolini had his children baptised in 1923. In 1926, he had a religious marriage ceremony to his wife Rachele. Their first marriage in 1915 had been a civil ceremony. Mussolini closed down many wine shops and night clubs. He also made swearing in public a crime." GWBush pandered to the Christian right like Mussolini pandered to the Catholic Church.

Quote:

3 - They perceive injustice from childhood and develop a burning desire to dominate, gain power, and right the wrongs toward society and to them as they view it. Typically there is a hate for business and private enterprise, as it is viewed as unfair and the cause of much injustice and suffering, and religion is also viewed as a failure, so government and they are the hope of righting the wrongs and creating their vision of utopia on earth.[/b]

Again.. sounds like GW Bush. He hated business because every business he started failed. He hated that his father wasn't reelected President. He wanted to right the perceived wrong of his father not going to Baghdad. He had the vision of utopia on earth by creating democracy in the Mideast.

oh.. and GWBush went to a private prep school.

I guess that proves that either Bush was an evil dictator or your list doesn't mean squat.

1 Reply

@parados,

okie hasn't figured out that good parents can produce good and bad children.

He seems to enjoy trying his brain at analyzing things that's way beyond his scope of understanding or perception, and narrows it down to the point it doesn't make sense in the real world.

It doesn't seem to bother him that so many on a2k challenge his thesis on most topics. But that's okie.

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What produces RUTHLESS DICTATORS?

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