20
   

What produces RUTHLESS DICTATORS?

 
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jul, 2009 03:11 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
So history belongs only to some people to interpret, is that right? Last I checked here, our libraries are open to anyone to check out books and read them.
okie
 
  0  
Reply Mon 20 Jul, 2009 03:12 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:




So it seems Obama is more like the NAZIs in there infancy... good to know.

There are eery similarities, troubling alright.
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jul, 2009 03:14 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

So history belongs only to some people to interpret, is that right? Last I checked here, our libraries are open to anyone to check out books and read them.
for sure, you should try it sometime Okie.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jul, 2009 03:19 pm
@dyslexia,
It's not the reading that matters; it's the comprehension of what one reads that's important. When we read, we are required to remember the facts of what we read; otherwise, it's a waste of time.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Mon 20 Jul, 2009 03:19 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

H2O MAN wrote:




So it seems Obama is more like the NAZIs in there infancy... good to know.

There are eery similarities, troubling alright.


http://i464.photobucket.com/albums/rr7/Flash1963/ObamaSocialist.jpg

http://standupforamerica.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/obama-ss-flag.jpg

0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jul, 2009 03:19 pm
@dyslexia,
Just finished reading about a dozen volumes, I lost count, on World War II, dys. And one of them was solely about the leadup, following World War I.
georgeob1
 
  3  
Reply Mon 20 Jul, 2009 03:19 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

I don't know how you know it is clear from the historical record, George. What is clear is that Hitler was just as philosophically connected to communists as he was capitalists. He railed against capitalists, and if there was a central theme of his hatred, it was the hatred of Jews, one big reason being they represented what he considered to be the greed of capitalism, everything bad about a human race of people, which he felt needed to be exterminated. It wasn't merely the Jews, but the capitalistic greed they represented.

Hard to follow your meaning or point here. The truth is Hitler fiercely opposed Communism, its doctrines and its organized supporters. At the same time he was willing to tolerate capitalists, as long as they were willing to go along with his programs. It's pretty clear that his motivations came not from this or that point on the conventional left-right political spectrum, but rather on some distorted concepts of German nationalism and the injustice done to it after WWI. He wanted power, German expansion, and the mobilization of the population to support his specific aims (that was the extent of his "socialism"). Frankly that doesn't fit neatly anywhere on your supposed political spectrum.

okie wrote:

Today's Leftists hate it when they are reminded that Hitler was a Leftist, so leftist intelligentsia has worked very hard to twist the historical record of what Hitler believed and did. What I am doing is simply pointing out facts. I do not have the bias that Europeans and in particular Germans may carry around still to this very day.

You are repeatedly pointing out your political and historical fantasies - not facts. While you may not share the biases of others, you certainly do bring some very significant (and strange) biases of your own that cloud your understanding of history and your interpretation of current events.

While Stalin and Hitler were alike in that they were authoritarian, murderous dictators, who repeatedly demonstrated that they valued their personal power over any political theories they or their supporters advanced, the political and economic doctrines they and their supporters used to gain power were profoundly different in focus and content. You seem strangely unable to grasp that obvious fact. I suspect it is because recognition of the evident truth would deprive you of some powerful prejudices that appear to satisfy you greatly.

I do agree that the extreme left and right both tend to be authoritarian and therefore dangerous to personal freedom. However that does not mean they are identical in their political and economic aspirations. You appear to be either unable or unwilling to understand this idea - one that is widely recognized by well-informed, thinking people.

Wake up.
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jul, 2009 03:21 pm
@georgeob1,
georgeob1 wrote:


Wake up.


Good advice!

Growing numbers of Americans are waking up to the clear and present danger present in Obamanomics and Obamacare.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jul, 2009 03:29 pm
@georgeob1,
I will try to simplify it for you, George. Stalin was a communist. Hitler was a socialist. America or conservatism represents the right end of the scale, freedom, individual responsibility, a representative republic form of government. Stalin was to the left of Hitler. Hitler was to the left of America, well to the left. If you wish to argue whether Hitler was closer to the left end or communist end of the scale or to the right end of the scale, that would be interesting.

Since the New Deal, we have moved somewhat leftward, but are still to the right of Europe and what would be regarded as socialism. We have socialistic programs, but we are not socialist yet. Obama wants to pull us left.
dyslexia
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 20 Jul, 2009 03:31 pm
@okie,
based solely on your posts here on a2k okie, I would opine that you haven't read a dozen history books in your life. Readers Digest doesn't count.
cicerone imposter
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 20 Jul, 2009 03:33 pm
@dyslexia,
Even Readers Digest would count, if he remembered what he read correctly!
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 20 Jul, 2009 03:36 pm
@okie,
With this response - and with the additional comments by H2O - this thread really gets ridiculous.

okie "simplifying" history for George ...
okie
 
  2  
Reply Mon 20 Jul, 2009 03:41 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

With this response - and with the additional comments by H2O - this thread really gets ridiculous.

okie "simplifying" history for George ...
Well, I would love to hear anyone, including George, or you for that matter, try to make a case that Hitler was to the right of America on the political spectrum. Anyone is welcome to make a fool of themselves to argue the illogical.
okie
 
  3  
Reply Mon 20 Jul, 2009 03:45 pm
@okie,
For example, I would love to hear from George, or anyone, why Hitler was right or left wing, based upon this statement of his:

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions"

Economic policy is I would say a huge part of political philosophy, George.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Mon 20 Jul, 2009 03:45 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:
Quote:
Anyone is welcome to make a fool of themselves to argue the illogical.


This has got to be one of the most asinine posts on able2know from the king of fools.

He's been corrected so often, it still hasn't sunk in that his posts are full of mistakes, lies, misinterpretations, and plain old ignorance.

I want you to introduce me to your teachers that graduated you at the top of your class. Or better still, introduce them to Able2Know and your posts.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jul, 2009 03:48 pm
@Walter Hinteler,


This thread gets increasingly ridiculous every time Hinteler comments.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 20 Jul, 2009 03:55 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

For example, I would love to hear from George, or anyone, why Hitler was right or left wing, based upon this statement of his:

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions"

Economic policy is I would say a huge part of political philosophy, George.



Hitler never ever said such.

Since you didn't give any source for the above:

It's from Strasser's "Nationalsozialistische Briefe" ('National Socialist Letters'), a bi-weekly magazine, and published with a 'letter to the editors' , in 1925.

Still on the trip of teaching German history, okie?
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jul, 2009 03:56 pm
@okie,
frankly Okie I don't the use of labels such as "left" or "right" to be very meaningful. I do consider the behavior. Hitler was a tyrant, Stalin was a tyrant, Pol Pot was a tyrant. Your need to label such tyrants demeans their atrocities to mere political ideologies.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jul, 2009 04:22 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Hitler never ever said such.

Since you didn't give any source for the above:

It's from Strasser's "Nationalsozialistische Briefe" ('National Socialist Letters'), a bi-weekly magazine, and published with a 'letter to the editors' , in 1925.

Still on the trip of teaching German history, okie?


Nicely done Walter !

Unfortunately facts don't persuade the 'true believers' in absurd doctrines.

Perhaps Hitler was "to the left" (whatever that means) of the United States in some respects. Okie concludes from this that everything in that direction leads inexorably to dictatorship.

More to the point, he also asserts that there is no difference between things as disparate as authoritarian socialism as practiced in the Soviet proletarian paradise and authoritarianism as practiced by Facist states. While they do have authoritarianism and the lack of freedom in common, and the extremes of left & right political slavery do tend to diminish all the other differences, the paths through which these two systems achieved power and rationalized its use could not have been more different.

Alas, Okie is armed with a malignant certainty that is not disturbed by questions, inconsistencies or even contradictory facts.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jul, 2009 04:32 pm
With okie, everybody's a socialist including Obama.
0 Replies
 
 

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