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Australia: Race warfare divides city

 
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Dec, 2005 12:10 am
First up new immigrant communities tend to ghettoize (ie co-locate with each other, in Sydney Cabramatta was for ages known as Vietnamatta).

The suburbs chosen are generally low rent/low income places.

Lakemba, like Auburn (where I lived for five years in the 1980s) is relatively inner city ie no more than 10 miles from Sydney CBD. It's also relatively close to the more industrial areas of Sydney ( for example Bankstown/Liverpool), another asset for the recent low income, ESL, immigrant.

I haven't lived in Sydney for yonks but I have relos and friends there. It's a mistake to think that the different groups are completely ghettoized.

I know there was a significant Pacific islander population in Minto (that's part of Campbelltown which was once a rural centre now effectively a dormitory suburb of Sydney - about 12 km south of Liverpool, itself a south western suburb on, what was once considered, the fringe of the metropolitan area.

The Houston/Sydney doesn't quite work - Australia doesn't have a non anglo ethnic group the size of Houston's african-american citizens. And Sydney has twice the population ie over 4 million.
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Dec, 2005 12:14 am
Pacific Islanders?


Come from Tonga and Fiji and Samoa and such.


We have lost of New Zealanders here, including lots of Maoris(who also, believe me, don't take any ****!)

New Zealand has a lot of Samoans, so I guess we inherited the Samoan New Zillunders, and have other Islanders besides.

The Island men tend to be ENORMOUS!!!!!!! And I mean enormous.....sounds like they like to fight?
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Dec, 2005 12:16 am
Actually, though Sydney is smaller...lots smaller...than NYC, that city works better, I think, as a comparison....since so many people go there as absolutely new arrivals.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Dec, 2005 12:23 am
Despite the recent beach mess, I am not sure I take that sequence as an indicator of how things are generally. On the other hand, among the young and unengaged, I can see it.

Dunno re the anti-immigrant thugs (versus the immigrant thugs) - I would guess they are in borderline situations themselves. Ay yi yi.
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Dec, 2005 12:37 am
Oh (duh) I thought you meant Pacific Islander immigrants had been called to join in. I pictured them just "up the road" Smile

I thought I'd read that Houston's population is now around 4 million. I could be wrong. I know the last time I was there it took me an hour to drive across the entire city ... and that was in good traffic conditions.

I was in Sydney a few years ago. Then north to Port Douglas and Cairns for a few days. Cairns reminded me a bit of Galveston...beach resort.

Some thoughts re hingehead's comments on immigrants tending to ghetto-ize, but generally thought it's mainly first-generation. More thoughts on that later...I have to catch a plane in the morning but interested to read more in a week or so!

Til soon.
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Dec, 2005 12:51 am
Houston "metro" area has over 4.5 million Smile

http://www.cityrating.com/citystats.asp?city=Houston&state=TX
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hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Dec, 2005 12:55 am
Houston must be tiny :wink: When I lived in Auburn I worked in Mt Pritchard (both are considered western suburbs) - a half hour drive - everyone though I had the best commute because I headed away city center when everyone else headed in.

Not much has changed - even in Cairns I still drive for half an hour to get to work.....
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Dec, 2005 01:45 am
JustWonders wrote:
Oh (duh) I thought you meant Pacific Islander immigrants had been called to join in. I pictured them just "up the road" Smile

I thought I'd read that Houston's population is now around 4 million. I could be wrong. I know the last time I was there it took me an hour to drive across the entire city ... and that was in good traffic conditions.

I was in Sydney a few years ago. Then north to Port Douglas and Cairns for a few days. Cairns reminded me a bit of Galveston...beach resort.

Some thoughts re hingehead's comments on immigrants tending to ghetto-ize, but generally thought it's mainly first-generation. More thoughts on that later...I have to catch a plane in the morning but interested to read more in a week or so!

Til soon.


They ARE immigrants, and "just up the road".

Or long term visitors.

New Zillunders get treated pretty much as Australians (can stay as long as they like, don't need visas etc) and we have lots to do with the Pacific Islands. We have a peace creating force in the Solomons, eg (invited in by the government).....lots of them come down for education, traineeships and so on, and stay.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2005 12:43 am
Guy arrested for inciteful text messaging...
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2005 02:11 am


Australian police have charged some dozen people over Sydney's recent wave of racial violence, the first man was jailed already on December 14.

followed on December, 16: Three arrests over Cronulla riots

... ... ...


and the last news about this from December, 23: Five more charged over Cronulla riots
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Dec, 2005 03:37 am
There's some quite significant differences in the various Sydney locales described here. Cabramatta does have a large Vietnamese population. It's a pretty vibrant place. If you want to try Vietnamese food, or experience other aspects of Vietnamese culture, you can do so in Cabramatta from people who smile and are happy to see you. You can experience great Chinese food in Hurstville, which has a very large Chinese population, who for the most part are very friendly.

The only reason anyone of non-Lebanese background would go to Lakemba is if they've got a strong desire to get a knife in the back. I don't care if people call me racist. That is the fact of the area!
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2005 11:15 am
Western Muslims' Racist Rape Spree
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Dec, 2005 11:54 am




A couple of days ago, this was posted in the Sydney Morning Herald:

Quote:
A no man's land in our ethnic mix

We are mostly a tolerant society, except when alienation meets ignorance writes Gerard Henderson.

[...]

As the contributors to James Jupp's edited collection The Australian People (CUP, 2001) make clear, Lebanese immigration to Australia started a century ago. The early settlers were Christian - Maronite Catholics, Melkite Catholics and Orthodox. There were also some Muslim Druse, who mainly settled in Adelaide. For over a century, Christian and Druse Lebanese made a most positive contribution to the Australian community. Perhaps the best known Australians with a Lebanese background are the NSW Governor, Dr Marie Bashir, and the Victorian Premier, Steve Bracks. Both were born in Australia with one or both parents from the Maronite tradition.

The first wave of Lebanese Muslims came to Australia following the start of the Lebanese civil war in 1975. As Dr Nahid Kabir points out in her book Muslims in Australia (Kegan Paul, 2004), "they have been referred to as 'quasi-refugees' because they were not accorded refugee status or services but the usual requirements were temporarily relaxed to allow them entry". In other words, Lebanese Muslims circa 1975 did not meet the strict definition of a refugee. This decision was made by Malcolm Fraser's Coalition government and was consistent with Fraser's accepting attitude to refugees, or those whose condition could be regarded as similar to that of refugees. The Lebanese Muslims tended to settle in the south-western suburbs of Sydney.

There have been successes among Lebanese Muslims. But some Australians of Lebanese Muslim background, who were born in or after 1975, have not pursued education and, consequently, have found themselves unemployed or in low-paying and/or insecure employment. Some of this group are involved in serious crime against people and property and, in recent years, a small minority have flirted with radical Islamism.

For the most past this small group, which is overwhelmingly male, has become alienated from mainstream Australia - including their family and religious groups. Quite a few young Muslim Lebanese Australians take little notice of their fathers, their mothers or their spiritual leaders. In short, they are out of control. Not because they are of Muslim background but because they are into crime, from a relatively young age.

Mix Lebanese Australian youth with drunken Australian beach-goers and an occasion for serious violence soon exists. As Bruce Baird (the federal MP for Cook, which includes Cronulla) pointed out on ABC Radio 702 yesterday, more than 90 per cent of the Sutherland shire consists of Australians of Anglo-Celtic background. That is, from Monday to Friday. On weekends, however, many Lebanese Australians travel to the area from south-western Sydney.
[...]
Last Sunday's violence came after that of the previous week, where a gang of Muslim Lebanese Australians attacked some young lifesavers on North Cronulla Beach.

The former group inflicted the violence but it seems a degree of verbal provocation was involved since the Cronulla North lifesavers reminded the south-western suburb inhabitants that they could not swim.

The revenge came a week later. It was fuelled by drink and drugs. But there was a degree of organisational support from such extreme right groups as the so-called Patriotic Youth League. Television viewers witnessed quite shocking scenes as young out-of-control Anglo-Celtic Australians inflicted extreme violence on anyone they deemed to be of Lebanese background. The police and ambulance services did their best but both were outnumbered. Then, later, a group of Muslim Lebanese Australians conducted their own violent revenge on the citizens of suburban Maroubra. It was a case of ethnic violence begetting ethnic violence.

It is unfair to blame the mainstream media for what happened. For example, a re-reading of Sydney's Daily Telegraph indicates that it reported the lead-up to last Sunday's events quite responsibly. Likewise, talkback radio did not spark the violence. Young Australians, of whatever ethnic background, can communicate their messages by mobile phones without using the established media.

What occurred in Sydney last weekend is a police matter which should be resolved in the courts. It is especially serious because the crimes which took place have been motivated by troublemakers, Anglo-Celtic members of the lunar right and alienated cultural Muslims alike.

For the most part, multiculturalism in Australia has worked well. The violence of last weekend was not evidence of the breakdown of multiculturalism but, rather, its absence.
Source
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JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2006 07:57 am
Council bans Australian flag
From: AAP By Amy Coopes
January 02, 2006

THE New South Wales Government has urged a Sydney beachside council to rethink its decision not to fly the Australian flag over the iconic Bondi Pavilion amid suggestions the move was inspired by racial tensions.

But Waverley Council's deputy mayor said Premier Morris Iemma didn't understand the facts and accused Liberal councillors of hijacking the issue for political gain.
Mr Iemma today urged the council to reconsider its 6-5 vote against flying the flag over the heritage-listed building.

"Our flag is a symbol of national unity and the council decision is just ridiculous, they want to reconsider it and reconsider immediately," he said.

"There's no excuse for anyone else to be saying 'Well, because of the incidents, the riots of two weeks ago we're not going to fly the Australian flag'. That is just ridiculous."

Waverley deputy mayor George Newhouse, who was among councillors who rejected the flag proposal, said it had nothing to do with racial tensions.


Advertisement:
"We already fly the flag at Bondi, we proudly fly the flag at Bondi and this decision has absolutely nothing to do with racism or Cronulla. It has everything to do with practical common sense," Mr Newhouse said.
"The Pavilion is a heritage-listed building and it will cost thousands of dollars to perform a heritage study and then erect the poles, which don't exist."

"We already have the flag, we love the flag, there is no problem with the flag and as for council banning the flag, it's absolute nonsense."

Council had first voted against installing the flag in March 2005, Mr Newhouse said.

"To raise it again in December was purely to manipulate the flag and the Cronulla racism issue," he said.

He accused Liberal councillors of taking advantage of the race riots to raise the issue of the flag again, adding: "That is truly offensive."

Greens state MP Lee Rhiannon said Waverley Council was far from shy of flying the national flag.

"I have lived in Waverley municipality all my life and have seen the Australian flag flying on the council chambers and at appropriate municipal events," Ms Rhiannon said.

"Community tensions were running high at the time...the no-flag option is a sensible choice."

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17710338-2,00.html
0 Replies
 
Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jan, 2006 08:30 am
That "no flag" decision is a monstrosity.
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hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 07:44 pm
Wilso, did you not read the whole article JW posted?

Specifically:

"We already fly the flag at Bondi, we proudly fly the flag at Bondi and this decision has absolutely nothing to do with racism or Cronulla. It has everything to do with practical common sense," Mr Newhouse said.
"The Pavilion is a heritage-listed building and it will cost thousands of dollars to perform a heritage study and then erect the poles, which don't exist."

"We already have the flag, we love the flag, there is no problem with the flag and as for council banning the flag, it's absolute nonsense."
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hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 07:46 pm
Not that I'm pro the oz flag anyway.

I like Jerry Seinfeld's line "I love your flag; Britain at night'
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2006 07:58 pm
Flags.


Ptooey.
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Wilso
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jan, 2006 02:42 am
hingehead wrote:
Not that I'm pro the oz flag anyway.

I like Jerry Seinfeld's line "I love your flag; Britain at night'


They should replace the union jack with the Aboriginal flag.
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msolga
 
  1  
Reply Thu 5 Jan, 2006 03:19 am
Wilso wrote:
hingehead wrote:
Not that I'm pro the oz flag anyway.

I like Jerry Seinfeld's line "I love your flag; Britain at night'


They should replace the union jack with the Aboriginal flag.


Now that's not a bad idea! Very Happy
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