I say to-ma-to, you say tah-mah-to: Potter v. Narnia

A few years ago, I was completely anti-Potter and pro-Narnia and Lord of the Rings. I see now that I was holding a double standard. Magic is a theme in all three, and I can't throw out one without throwing them all out.

That said, I do feel like the Harry Potter series is about a different kind of magic, for the most part. It is more about witchcraft than Narnia or LOTR are. But as to one being better than the other... I think it really comes down to personal opinion. I like Narna and LOTR better, personally, but that's about all I can say now.

This isn't terribly scholarly. Just some thoughts in passing.

I haven't read the Narnia books or LOTR since I was a kid. I know that many Christians like Narnia because of its parallels with Christian stories. The lion represents Jesus. He is sacrificed but rises from the dead. Unfortunately I can't remember the other parallels.

Lewis purposely put a heavy dose of Christian content into the Narnia books, and said so. Great article in the New Yorker recently, let's see if I can find it...

Hi Redeemed. Thanks for your reply.

I know a lot of Christians that don't have a problem with Harry at all but I know there are a few. With the Narnia movie just being released I've read a bit about how Christians are so excited to see the story brought to the screen.

I read the books when I was young and never knew they were Bible based allegory.

I doubt most kids do. Which makes it doubly interesting that parents would be so keen on taking their kids to Narnia.

Here:

http://www.newyorker.com/critics/atlarge/articles/051121crat_atlarge

Really interesting, I recommend it.

I suspect it's a knee-jerk reaction to the word "witch."

Lots of folks don't think that witches should be portrayed positively.

Plus, there's a qualitative difference between a children's book (Wizard of Oz) and an adolescent book (Harry Potter).

well, intersting re the Wiz of Oz as it was actually about the Silver Standard and was written for political reasons. C.S. Lewis never missed an opportunity to advocate his brand of christianity.

Thanks soz. I'm printing it out so I'll have time to dabble in and out of it during the course of the day.

If my memory serves, C.S. Lewis, while certainly a Christian and certainly a theologist, wasn't much of a holy-roller.

Good point, DrewDad about "positive" witches but were the Oz books really written for kids?

Thanks soz, for that article!

It really presents Lewis as I remember him from religion class -- not the saintly, devout Christian that many people think he was.

I love the bit about "... either Jesus had to be crazy to say the things he did or what he said must be true, and since he doesn't sound like someone who is crazy, he must be right."

An interesting note about the imagry of Aslan -- how he should have been a donkey. I really need to go back and reread the stories after that!

Several observations:

Yes, the Oz books were written for kids. L. Frank Baum was a bit of a hack before the Oz series took off. He tried to stop at least three times, but relented because of mountains of letters from hundreds of children who loved the idea of a Fairy Kingdom beyond the Deadly Desert.

_____

I'd guess that part of the "religious" outrage over Harry Potter was fueled by jealousy. The Bible may be the Greatest Story Every Told, but kids were showing up at Sunday School and Youth Fellowship Meetings excited about the power of the ideas of Good and Evil.

Further Harry Potter was news--and burning Harry Potter guaranteed that the People with Matches were also in the news.

__________________

I was fortunate enough to read LOTR in 1953, l954 and 1955, before it became a fad.

When the series became a well-known college craze in the '60's there was a great deal of topical opposition from secular social commentators who proclaimed that the moral fabric of the United States was endangered by degenerate hippies who prefered fantasy to the real world. How could we ever beat the Russians if the Youth of the Nation reveled in Middle Earth?

__________

As fate would have it the first Narnia movie is being released at a time of Christian backlash. Jerry Falwell and who-ever-it-is O'Reilley deduced and voiced that millions of Christians are feeling marginalized by atheists and Muslims and Jews (and probably all those churches in China and India and Africa).

Disney PR says they are not making an effort to sell The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe as a Christian film, but they are advising theatres that group rates for church groups might be a dandy marketing idea.

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Incidently Tolkien, Lewis and Charles Williams were the principle members of a group called The Inklings.



http://www.mythsoc.org/inklings.html

I recommend Charles William's books for another variety of Christianity through fantasy--although I personally prefer Tolkien and Lewis.

Interesting observations, Noddy!

"...people with matches..." That's terrific!

I'm still hoping that some of the people with matches will come in and explain the double standard.

I was reading the review of "Narnia" in today's paper -- that is what sparked my question.

The writer begins the review by saying he is only reviewing it from a cinematic angle -- not the religous angle (so don't write in to beat me up about it), which of course lets you know right off that the movie is being marketed as "Christian".

I really don't have any problem with it being marketed as such anyway. The Christian aspects of the story never dawned on me until well after I'd read the stories and I imagine most kids that go to the movie won't be looking for Jesus in it either.

I'm really trying to learn something about the ideas of magic within the realm of Christianity. Why is some magic bad and some magic good? (Other than by distracting us from killing commies, of course.)

I remember that Philip Pullman, the creator of the rather gnostic "His Dark Materials" trilogy said something about deliberately making his story the antithesis to the Narnia series.

While Saul consults the Witch of Endor to conjure up the shade of Samuel, elsewhere in the Bible it is written, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." (Exodus 22:18).

Therefore those who take the Bible literally--and those who take selected verses of the Bible literally--feel free to burn witches or books about witches. The idea of a Good Witch creates moral complexity and most fundamentalists don't deal well with moral complexity.

I'm not an expert on Christian notions of Good and Evil. I have read a great deal of fantastic literature and one of the problems in constructing a believable fantasy plot is that both Purely Good Characters and Purely Evil Characters are deadly dull and unbelievable. Unfortunately, in the short run, Pure Evil can be more colorful than Pure Good.

In the World of Narnia, Aslan is a Christ Figure, "killed" by the Snow Queen. As Christ was sacrificed for the human race, Aslan's death brings the end of prolonged bitter winter in Narnia. Aslan=Pure Good. The White Witch=Pure Evil.

The struggle between good and evil is given color and depth by the children who are heroic, but not cosmic. Pure Good and Pure Evil make only brief appearances. Adults do not appear.


The Chronicles of Narnia[QUOTE] are exciting stories with a specifically Christian dimension. Salvation is conferred.

The Harry Potter books are exciting stories without a specifically Christian dimension. Not only are Harry and his friends at Hogwart's flawed human characters, so are the adults in the books. "He Who Must Not Be Named" is Pure Evil (and to my mind rather duller than the White Witch) but there is no supernatural, omnipotent, figure of Pure Good.

Harry and his friends are fighting Evil on their own without a designated heavenly sponsor and this sort of independent crusade doesn't jibe with a fundamentalist view of the universe. Further, the adults of the Hogwart's universe are not perfect people and are regularly circumvented and outwitted by Harry and his friends.

Gasp! In this universe Adults are Not In Charge.

There is much more to say, but reality is invading the Ivory Tower.

I too have never quite understood why many Christians had/have major issues with Harry Potter. As many here may guess, I am a rather devout Christian and yet I do not see the need to rail against Harry Potter. I know several in my church who are vehemently against Harry Potter.

My children (age 14 and 18 now) have seen the HP movies and they understand that it is entertainment and I teach them that witchcraft is not something to be dabbling in. Both are mature enough in their beliefs that they understand this. I can see keeping younger children from seeing the movies based on their level of maturity, but to call HP evil while allowing that Wizard of Oz, LOTR, Narnia, etc. are all ok is a bit of a contradiction if you ask me.

Anyway, just my three cents worth.

Awwwww.

I HATE reality. Ditch it quick, Noddy, and get back here with more. You've made my brain itch with some new thoughts that I'm still trying to grab hold of at this point.

I find it very interesting that the best explaination comes from an understanding of literature and not of the Bible. When I've talked to anti-Potterites I've gotten very basic "witches" answers. I haven't really run across many anti-Potterites to ask though.

Thanks for adding your many cents, Costal Rat. Your opinion is very much like most of the Christians I know -- they don't see Harry Potter or any of the other stories as the ruination or salvation of today's youth.

It most certainly is a contradiction.

I'm wondering if Noddy is really onto something with the absence of an absolute good character in the books other than Narnia.

I only know the Oz books through the movie and the "good" character in that movie turns out to be a total charlatan. But that movie is not burned (maybe the books were?) like the Harry Potter books are.

I need to go back and reread the Narnia books but I seem to recall that the White Queen tempted the children into Narnia. Was there a seductive (and I don't mean sexual) quality to her? Do I remember that right?

In the Potter books, Voldemort is not at all seductive. He seems to have brought people in through fear alone.

Hmmmm.....

Boomerang wrote:



Umm, I read the books about a year ago. I don't believe she tempted the children into Narnia, but tempting was definitely a tool she used. Edmund was particularly vulnerable to it. The other children saw right through it. It depended on the child's heart and attitude to start with if he/she was actually swayed.

Redeemed--

As I remember, she caught Edmund on his own and bent him to her will with unlimited Turkish Delight and much bogus sympathy about his family's lack of understanding.

I hate how some people try to label some totally unChristian movies as Christian..
(maybe just so they can be sold on unchristians AND Christian catalogs, stores, and websites)
Lord of the Rings has NOTHING Christian in it
and neither does Narnia..
people say that the lion portrays GOD
God is God, not a lion!

I didnt say Christians cant watch these movies... why not?
But I really dont like how they pretend that they are Christian!

Narnia is a parable, loveislikearose3. Surely as a Christian you understand parable. The Bible does has a few.