The Problem with Hell

Wolf_ODonnell- The difficulty that you are having is that the entire concept of heaven or hell makes no sense at all to any thinking person.

Wolf-

Try reading Portrait of an Artist as a Young Man by James Joyce.That will give you a sense of proportion vis-a-vis "Hell".

Re: The Problem with Hell


Who says they will go to hell?



Maybe something like this:
In this life we have the possibility to affect how we will spend eternity by using our free will for good or evil. By choosing good we are formed in the likeness of God, i.e. towards perfection. By choosing evil, the likeness is distorted, and we become less and less like Him. After death we no longer have this possibility to affect our destiny. If a person has lived a wicked enough life he may even start to hate God and therefore refuses His generous offer of mercy. Justice will therefore condemn him. Although one could argue that the person has in fact condemned himself, and that his punishment is inflicted by himself through his wicked nature (suffering being a universal sideeffect of sin).



If God only would have created people to go to Heaven, then we wouldn't really have had a choice, would we? I'm convinced that no human being is born for hell. Each person has been given free will to use as he chooses. Of course, some people have more difficult upbringings than others, but I'm pretty sure God doesn't ask what is impossible of anybody. I feel confident that He will extend His mercy to those who deserve it.

Derevon- You are using God as the argument for a heaven and a hell. One cannot presuppose something without proving the existence of that entity. In other words, if there is no way of proving that there is a God, the entire concept of heaven and hell is irrelevant.

Re: The Problem with Hell


MANY Christians say that they'll go to hell.

According to a couple of my in-laws it "just breaks their hearts" that "I'm going to hell" even though I've "done some really nice things" with my life. They are "so sorry" that I "won't spend eternity with them in Heaven" and if I would just "accept Jesus as my personal savior -- think of all the fun we could have".

According to them all other religions are the creation of Satan and exist only to lead people astray, away from God, so that God will be able to pick out the smart set for Heaven.

It doesn't matter one iota what you do with your life -- as long as you announce Jesus as your savior, you're a-okay and Heaven-bound.

At least we'll have lots of fun company, Boomer.

I remember reading somewhere a persons response to the idea that animals don't have souls and therefore there are no animals in Heaven.

Whoever it was said "If there aren't dogs it can't be Heaven".

I believe you can add any number of nouns after dogs and the claim would still be true.

Of course, if we will consider the words of Solomon in Ecclesiates 9:5,6:

"For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. 6 Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun."

We will conclude that there could be no such thing as eternal punishment in hell or anyplace else.

When you're dead, you're dead.

"The wages of sin are death, but by the time taxes are taken out, it's just sort of a tired feeling."

- Paula Poundstone

So what do they mean by 'sin tax'?

Hell is seperation from god, heaven is communion with god. You decide what your'e gonna do!

Doesn't that have something to do with the way language is used? Nouns, adjectives, clauses, etc....

No, that's syn tax.

Syn is when you are realy bad.

neologist makes a sound point and reference--and the 'biblical truth' of hell is simply non-existent, at least the way that churchianity presents it. For all the studied focus on their god, they sure are funny about some things, it seems to me that they must believe the bible was written in the King's English, originally. Of course, realizing that god is literally and figuratively 'the image of the beast'--the 'beast' being man and the 'image' being the reflection of man's thoughts--makes it a little more clear why there is so much confusion.



They know not that we are beasts--understanding little about the idea of what 'an image' really is, as I said, a reflection of thought. They do not understand that God is not subject to emotional and petty machinations--being 'pure Spirit' by necessity rules out emotions completely, as they are functions secondary to a physical nature. And so without a physical nature, reactionary instincts are gone--meaning that a God of true Spirit form must be something purer than their imaginations.

If God is omnipotent, then God is 'love.' If God is omniscient, then God is the energy composing the universe. If God is omnipresent, then there can be no hell as a place of permanent separation and/or torture. If God is merciful then the religious zealots of the world will be forgiven, too.
Truly, I think 'they know not what they do.' But just don't let them do it to you, is what I say.

Personally, from a psychological point of view, I think that the whole idea of Dante's Inferno-type hell works as a subconscious mechanism on the minds of the 'devout'--for they are leaving themselves the mental idea of escape from 'God's wrath'--also on that deep level they suspect they are in for a good dose of it.

I've never been able to talk myself out of there being God--and I've tried--I'm a self-checker of an almost obsessive sort. I test my beliefs by trying every possible way not to believe and by an endless seeking of worldly information. A person cannot 'choose' to believe something--belief is something beyond our wills, I really believe that, too. Therefore, 'believing in Jesus' is not the key--it's not even in the bible, in that true sense of meaning. They made it up.
By the same token, I just have never been too convinced there was a hell--I certainly never worried about winding up there--I just couldn't imagine there being such malice beyond the human mind. Logic tells me true 'evil' is the product of human greed and envy.

One cannot love one's neighbor as one's self if they can only express mild disappointment when they pass their neighbor's elevator going 'down on' their way 'going up.'
Their moral catch-phrase has failed them--WWJD? He would hit the emergency stop button, that's WJWD.
I think they must have J confused with

Dunno. Feeling ornery today...I'm not usually so gregarious in my frankness.

Meph. Why this is hell, nor am I out of it.

Doctor Faustus, Scene III. (Marlowe)

Tried to edit my post when I realized it didn't make sense. Too late, but no matter. Most of what I say doesn't make much sense anyway.

Beautifully said, queen annie!

Welcome to A2K!

neologist- Then you will be perfectly at home on a religion thread!

I'm sorry. When you fed me that line, I just couldn't resist!!!

Hey, queen annie! New Mexico, huh? There's a half dozen or so of us around here. Welcome.