The arguments of God's nonexistence

Beena wrote:

I have decide to leave this forum for good. I doubt that I will move on to another forum. I find being on the internet very frustrating and so forums for me are out. If I found any point in staying on the forums I would, but I don't. I have a blogsite on which someone keeps messing with the spellings and that is very frustrating. That blogsite will stay but I doubt it will move forward anymore!

I changed my mind. I'm here to stay I guess.

I'm the other one wrote:

And I see you're still waiting....

Patience is a virtue, sweetheart.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

I'm the other one wrote:

And I see you're still waiting....

Patience is a virtue, sweetheart.

Still waiting ...

I

Beena wrote:

Wilso, it's not the theists that ask the atheists to prove that God doesn't exist, but if atheists insist that God doesn't exist then they should be able to prove that first. Don't you think so? In the same way, if the theists insist that God exists then they should be able to prove that first. Otherwise, believe, but don't insist anything!

It's called Burden of Proof. If I were to state that UFO's exist I would be expected to provide evidence to back up my claim. Likewise, if theists claim that an invisible man in long flowing robes exists somewhere in the sky, with the abilities to create life, turn water into wine, and predict stock market quotes . . . . they're expected to be able to provide proof.

Atheists aren't the ones making the claims, theists are. Thus theists are the ones that should provide the proof.

Proving something DOESN'T exist is quite difficult.

Implicator wrote:

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

I'm the other one wrote:

And I see you're still waiting....

Patience is a virtue, sweetheart.

Still waiting ...

I

Read what I posted before that response.

Is God evil? If God is truly evil, then there is a contradiction of what religious entities define Him as the good God and just. For example...


Genesis 4:3 -- And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

Genesis --4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

Genesis --4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

We have three verses in a row. These three verses show how Abel and Cain pay their respects to God in different manners. Each one do their own offering to God. But these verses put more emphasis on their rituals, which differentiate them both in the eyes of God (if you can't see it, read it again and again). Abel offered God animal sacrifices while Cain offered Him fruits and vegetables. The last verse (genesis 4:5) articulates it very well, that because of Cain's OFFERING, he couldn not receive God's respect. There isn't a lot of reading comprehension involved here to understand that.
Do you want me to say that God (after Abel sacrified animals in His name) was able to put on robe, get in bed, and light up a Cuban cigar so He could enjoy Abel's rituals? Is that what you want me to say? The Bible doesn't say that. But if it did, I would've been glad to show it to you.



Exodus 11:5 -- And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt SHALL DIE, from the first born of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.

Exodus --11:6 And there shall be a great cry throughout all the land of Egypt, such as there was none like it, nor shall be like it any more.


Exodus 9:19 -- Send therefore now, and gather thy cattle, and all that thou hast in the field; for upon every man and beast which shall be found in the field, and shall not be brought home, the hail shall come down upon them, and they shall die.

Get the definition of "premeditation" before everything else. Do you see the first verse? God says "And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt SHALL DIE." Can you see the last two words "Shall die" mean that the list of people God mentions will die by his warth. [Now] get the definition of "murder."Isn't God talking with Moses about all these? So, isn't God premeditating a mass murder? Can't you see that? And the second verse reads that there will be cries while those people are dying (those people are suffering). Why is it necessary for those people to suffer? I don't know why the animals should be put to death as well. Are the animals a threat to God? Do animals suffer?

You are broadbrushing, I am afraid. Many atheists claim "God does not exist" as if it were fact, while others simply state that they don't believe God exists. The former have burden of proof, whereas the latter do not.

Jason Proudmoore wrote:

Is God evil? If God is truly evil, then there is a contradiction of what religious entities define Him as the good God and just. For example...


Genesis 4:3 -- And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

Genesis --4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

Genesis --4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

We have three verses in a row. These three verses show how Abel and Cain pay their respects to God in different manners. Each one do their own offering to God. But these verses put more emphasis on their rituals, which differentiate them both in the eyes of God (if you can't see it, read it again and again). Abel offered God animal sacrifices while Cain offered Him fruits and vegetables. The last verse (genesis 4:5) articulates it very well, that because of Cain's OFFERING, he couldn not receive God's respect. There isn't a lot of reading comprehension involved here to understand that.
Do you want me to say that God (after Abel sacrified animals in His name) was able to put on robe, get in bed, and light up a Cuban cigar so He could enjoy Abel's rituals? Is that what you want me to say? The Bible doesn't say that. But if it did, I would've been glad to show it to you.



Exodus 11:5 -- And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt SHALL DIE, from the first born of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.

Exodus --11:6 And there shall be a great cry throughout all the land of Egypt, such as there was none like it, nor shall be like it any more.


Exodus 9:19 -- Send therefore now, and gather thy cattle, and all that thou hast in the field; for upon every man and beast which shall be found in the field, and shall not be brought home, the hail shall come down upon them, and they shall die.

Get the definition of "premeditation" before everything else. Do you see the first verse? God says "And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt SHALL DIE." Can you see the last two words "Shall die" mean that the list of people God mentions will die by his warth. [Now] get the definition of "murder."Isn't God talking with Moses about all these? So, isn't God premeditating a mass murder? Can't you see that? And the second verse reads that there will be cries while those people are dying (those people are suffering). Why is it necessary for those people to suffer? I don't know why the animals should be put to death as well. Are the animals a threat to God? Do animals suffer?

read it again

Quote:

You are broadbrushing, I am afraid. Many atheists claim "God does not exist" as if it were fact, while others simply state that they don't believe God exists. The former have burden of proof, whereas the latter do not.

God exists/god does not exist are not equally provable assertions.
In fact, nobody can say for certain that ANYTHING, including fairies, martians, and toucan sam, doesn't exist.

For this reason the burden of proof always lays on the one claiming the positive

because asking to prove a negative...ANY negative(without adding a qualifier such as 'in this room' or 'on my lap')..is absurd.

ok, let's try this again. If God (or any god) asks human beings for sacrifices in His name, then God (or gods) are deemed sadist (s).

If you don't believe me, get the definition of the word "sadist".

Ok, let's try another thing.

Are sacrifices (any type of sacrifice) intended to please [a] powerful, invisible being (God or gods), or sacrifices intented to displease them?

If sacrifices are intended to please God, then God enjoys sacrifices in His name. If God enjoys sacrifices in His name, then God is a sadist.

Let me give you another example. If God gives man instructions on how to sacrifice, then God likes sacrifices, therefore, God is sadist. Read the following verses:

Exodus 20:24--An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee.


Exodus 20:25-- And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it.

Exodus 20:26-- Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.

Is this enough explanation?

Let me give you another example. If God gives man instructions on how to sacrifice, then God likes sacrifices, therefore, God is sadist.

Quote:

Let me give you another example. If God gives man instructions on how to sacrifice, then God likes sacrifices, therefore, God is sadist.

Jason are you sure you are using the right word here? in my dictionary a sadist is:

1 : a sexual perversion in which gratification is obtained by the infliction of physical or mental pain on others (as on a love object)

(Link to dictionary I used: http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/sadist)

I fail to see how God liking sacrifices would in any way imply a sexual perversion...

Ahhh yes, I get it now. Thanks Jason.

Let me try to make you understand this better. If I kill a chicken and eat it, it doesn't make me a murderer.

However, if I kill a chicken and don't eat it, then I'm a murderer (I just kill it for the sake of killing it).

But if you refute this, then you don't know what murder is.

And how do you know that God doesn't enjoy to inflict pain?

You are saying "maybe neither."

You don't know.

About the example you give me about the mass murderer who is put to death by the state is irrelevant

then God sacrifies were done because the subjects of His sacrifices murdered 100 Jews? That doesn't make any sense.

And no one reading this will find logic in what you're saying.

Apart from the verses that I have provided that imply that God likes sacrifices, can you tell me why God likes sacrifices then?

Because I'd like to know.

And I'm not trying to "impose" anything. Do you think what I'm doing is imposing?

Get the right definition to that word then, because you don't know what the word "impose"means.

And why aren't my verses taken from the Bible good enough?

Main Entry: murder
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: killing
Synonyms: annihilation, assassination, big chill, blood, bloodshed, bump-off, butchery, capital murder, carnage, crime, death, destruction, dispatching, dust-off, felony, foul play, hit, homicide, kiss-off, knifing, liquidation, lynching, manslaughter, massacre, off, offing, one-way ticket, shooting, slaying, taking out, terrorism, the business, the works, wasting

v. mur·dered, mur·der·ing, mur·ders
v. tr.
To kill (another human) unlawfully.
To kill brutally or inhumanly.
To put an end to; destroy: murdered their chances.
To spoil by ineptness; mutilate: a speech that murdered the English language.
Slang. To defeat decisively; trounce.

The murder of people is supposed to be unlawful (depending the person who's being murder had a trial in the US). But I'm not talking about the murder of human beings.

Is it lawful to kill a chicken in the US and not eating it?

Regarding your example about God being love and not enjoying those killings: If I love rabbits (not in gastronomic sense, but in the caring way), and I ask people to kill rabbits in my name, do you think what I feel about the rabbits is love? And the Bible says God is love...the Bible says...

What kind of evidence do you want me to show you that would tell you that God is a sadist?