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Sat 26 Nov, 2005 09:29 am
If you buy something that was stolen, even if you didn't know it was stolen, are you too guilty of a crime?
There have been a couple of things in the news lately, and one more personal quest, that has sparked my curiosity about this.
In the news:
Apparently Portland police have turned a blind eye to second hand shops selling stolen goods. The FBI recently busted a number of shops and the depth of the problem is simply staggering. Chances are that anyone who bought anything second hand bought something stolen.
Another item considers the Lego Bandit who was arrested last week with $200,000 worth of stolen Legos. His house in Nevada was searched and more Legos were found. Records indicate that he has sold over $600,000 worth of stolen Legos online over the last few years.
More personal:
I have been shopping craigslist for some much needed furniture. Most of it seems perfectly legitimate stuff being sold by people who have owned and used it for a couple of years.
But the number of people selling "brand new", "been in storage since we bought it", "moving to a smaller house and it won't fit", "just bought it yesterday and decided we didn't like it so we're selling it for half of what we paid for it" furniture is a bit suspicious.
I look through the camera postings sometimes and come across the same sort of thing - "this $3,000 camera has been sitting in my closet since I bought it".
I'm not really worried about the police showing up at my door to confinscate furniture but I really don't want to buy stolen stuff.
When buying second hand stuff, how can one best be sure that they are not buying stolen goods?
Many thanks for your tips!
Oooh, as a fellow craigslist-ee...-er... whatever, I'm interested.
Have thought the same thing, especially when it's happened a few times with the same poster.
I do think that it can be legitimate -- we've had lots of perfectly good stuff sitting around until we decided it was stupid to keep it sitting around and gave it away/ donated it. If craigslist had been around at the time, I'm sure I would have composed a listing that sounded a lot like those.
But I've had precisely the same thoughts, especially with brand-new stuff, curious what others have to say.
(Scary about the second-hand stores!! Wonder how common that is...?)
Boomerang:
Is there any possibility the seller can furnish you a copy of their bill-of-sale to verify they even own it,much less that it wasn't stolen? Call me suspicious,but if they can't e-mail you a copy of a sale's ticket,then I'd be leery.
lindatw, I don't have sales tickets from much stuff I own. If I had to prove things were mine I'd live in an empty house! Perhaps I'd better start holding on to things.
I haven't noticed the same person posting stuff until today where a girl has way, way more than one household of furniture for sale. I think it's a store but she wanted to post as "owner" instead of "dealer".
Another one that roused my suspicion is a listing for stuff seized in a lein against a furniture manufactuer. This is really beautiful and very expensive stuff. The posting only says "available to see in the warehouse" between such and such hours. No phone number, no address for the warehouse.
At first I thought they were just idiots at advertising but when they didn't respond to my e-mails I started wondering if perhaps the people who needed to know where the warehouse is, already know without having to ask.
I too have donated stuff that sat in storage for a while but never anything that was bought new, put into storage after two months, then sold for half price. I never bought any furniture without measuring whether it would or would not fit in my house, found out it wouldn't and sold it the next day for half price.
If there weren't so many of them I'd think it was just some goofy people but knowing about the theft rings operating in my city makes me really suspicious.
Re: Honestly Officer, I didn't know it was stolen!
boomerang wrote:If you buy something that was stolen, even if you didn't know it was stolen, are you too guilty of a crime?
Generally, no. If you KNEW the item had been stolen then you could be charged with "Receiving Stolen Property" but in almost all cases the police (DA) would be required to show that you KNEW the item had been stolen. The explicit knowledge that the item was stolen is a required element for it to be a crime.
If you had earnestly bought the item it could still be legally seized from you and returned to it's rightful owner (that usually only happens with very high-value items) and you'd be out whatever you paid for the item but you caouldn't be charged with a crime.
As a fellow Craig's List user and an E-Bay user I've seen a lot of suspicious things being sold just like you have. It's a bit scary.
The answer seems obvious to me, just ask the person "Is this stolen or not"?
Boomerang: I wou;d be suspicious,too. Internet shopping is fun,but if I wanted to buy second-hand,
I'd probably go to a charity shop where I could see
what I was getting. Are ther any in your area?
Do you ever go to any yard sales?
I went to a yard sale once, wanted to buy the entire yard but discovered it was stolen. I'm now out looking for a garage sale, the one I have is too small.
Yeah.
I do know there are a lot of stupid people. :-)
I've given away or donated nice, brand-new stuff that was given as a gift -- a breadmaker comes to mind (partly because you mentioned how much you love yours and I regretted getting rid of it....)
I'd imagine that with the second-hand stores, the store is liable rather than the person who buys something from the store. With craigslist/ something more direct, dunno. (I know what you mean about not being worried about getting in trouble so much as not wanting to buy stolen stuff in the first place.)
Newspaper classified ads have been around forever and perform the same function sans pictures (and with more abbreviations), I assume that whatever rules are in place for classified ads would apply to craigslist. (But I don't know what they are.)
I think you've identified some of the suspicious factors -- someone who has much more furniture to sell than is reasonable, someone who pops up over and over again, etc. (I'd been scoping out Blackberries in the electronics section and had an exchange with one guy that made me decide not to get it even though [well because, in part] it was a great price.)
Ah, there's fishin' with some facts.
lindatw, the way craigslist works is that it IS local -- just like newspaper classifieds. You read the ad, then decide if you want to go look at it (in person) and buy it/ pick it up.
I have so far bought only a very very nice cherry headboard for a great price from a very nice young grad student who wasn't suspicious at all. (Moved, headboard was too tall for new place [which I saw], and she needed money). Looked at a couch the other day, super-nice owners with super-nice cats who sozlet enjoyed petting, so it was worth the drive, but the couch had been enjoyed a little too much by the super-nice cats. (The fabric wasn't in great shape, a few scratches, a lot of pilling, and kind of annoying polyester to start with though a great color.) I thought about getting it anyway and reupholstering as per recent conversations here, but the shape wasn't GREAT enough to make me want to go to the effort.
Anyway, I guess it's buyer beware like anything else; trust your instincts and quivering antennae.
I love yard sales/garage sales/tag sales/charity shops! That is really the only kind of shopping I like but dragging along a four year old has changed all that!
Now I do what I can from home at the computer.
Thanks fishin'! It's good to know that I couldn't be charged with a crime.
It is a bit scary. I really don't want to do business with such people.
The Lego guy though - he appeared to be a legitimate seller on eBay and other places. I don't think anyone who bought from him would have suspected he was a theif.
How did you discover that the yard was stolen, dys?
You would make quite a private eye, I think!
I heard a story where some store had the X Box 360 for under $500 bucks, as a loss leader on "Black Friday". People were buying them up, and reselling them the same day on E bay for double the price!
Proving that there is indeed a sucker born every minute!
Remember the Cabbage Patch fury many years ago? Or the Tickly Me, Elmo riots?
Parents are strange animals.
I imagine a $500 game system is more for the adults than the kids though.
On subject, if anyone does know where you can buy stolen electronics cheap, let me know. I'm always a bargain shopper.
Oh my gosh!
That is unbelievable, Slappy. I'll bet they sell even at that price though. Somewhere in America some kid is throwing the ultimate tantrum because they don't have one yet and mommy and daddy are trying to find a way to make Precious happy.
Confirmation!
There was a story in today's paper about a guy who spotted his guitar for sale on craigslist. The guitar had been in his car when his car was stolen.
He contacted the seller, set up a time to meet and showed up with the cops. They also found the car.
Do you know anything about what the ad said? Like, "I bought this great guitar but ya know I just COULDN'T fit it through the door! Bummer!" or whatever?
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