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Wikipedia Watch

 
 
Reply Tue 15 Nov, 2005 03:35 pm
Has Wikipedia been taken over by administrators with agendas?

Wikipedia is out of control
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 5,262 • Replies: 25
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kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2005 07:04 am
What does "scraping" mean?

That term seems important to the author's argument, and I am not sure what it is.
0 Replies
 
freedom4free
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2005 08:18 am
Scraping :

To extract data from dynamic web pages on your targeted websites and save the content into your own databases or text files.

Copying the contents from thousands of web pages and pasting them to your own file one by one.

I think.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 05:27 am
Wikipedia has always been out of control. That's the whole point of it being a Wiki, that nobody controls it.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 03:00 pm
Quote:
Posted 11/29/2005 7:12 PM

A false Wikipedia 'biography'

By John Seigenthaler

"John Seigenthaler Sr. was the assistant to Attorney General Robert Kennedy in the early 1960's. For a brief time, he was thought to have been directly involved in the Kennedy assassinations of both John, and his brother, Bobby. Nothing was ever proven."
?- Wikipedia


This is a highly personal story about Internet character assassination. It could be your story.

I have no idea whose sick mind conceived the false, malicious "biography" that appeared under my name for 132 days on Wikipedia, the popular, online, free encyclopedia whose authors are unknown and virtually untraceable. There was more:

"John Seigenthaler moved to the Soviet Union in 1971, and returned to the United States in 1984," Wikipedia said. "He started one of the country's largest public relations firms shortly thereafter."

At age 78, I thought I was beyond surprise or hurt at anything negative said about me. I was wrong. One sentence in the biography was true. I was Robert Kennedy's administrative assistant in the early 1960s. I also was his pallbearer. It was mind-boggling when my son, John Seigenthaler, journalist with NBC News, phoned later to say he found the same scurrilous text on Reference.com and Answers.com.

I had heard for weeks from teachers, journalists and historians about "the wonderful world of Wikipedia," where millions of people worldwide visit daily for quick reference "facts," composed and posted by people with no special expertise or knowledge ?- and sometimes by people with malice.

At my request, executives of the three websites now have removed the false content about me. But they don't know, and can't find out, who wrote the toxic sentences.

Anonymous author

I phoned Jimmy Wales, Wikipedia's founder and asked, "Do you ... have any way to know who wrote that?"

"No, we don't," he said. Representatives of the other two websites said their computers are programmed to copy data verbatim from Wikipedia, never checking whether it is false or factual.

Naturally, I want to unmask my "biographer." And, I am interested in letting many people know that Wikipedia is a flawed and irresponsible research tool.

But searching cyberspace for the identity of people who post spurious information can be frustrating. I found on Wikipedia the registered IP (Internet Protocol) number of my "biographer"- 65-81-97-208. I traced it to a customer of BellSouth Internet. That company advertises a phone number to report "Abuse Issues." An electronic voice said all complaints must be e-mailed. My two e-mails were answered by identical form letters, advising me that the company would conduct an investigation but might not tell me the results. It was signed "Abuse Team."

Wales, Wikipedia's founder, told me that BellSouth would not be helpful. "We have trouble with people posting abusive things over and over and over," he said. "We block their IP numbers, and they sneak in another way. So we contact the service providers, and they are not very responsive."

After three weeks, hearing nothing further about the Abuse Team investigation, I phoned BellSouth's Atlanta corporate headquarters, which led to conversations between my lawyer and BellSouth's counsel. My only remote chance of getting the name, I learned, was to file a "John or Jane Doe" lawsuit against my "biographer." Major communications Internet companies are bound by federal privacy laws that protect the identity of their customers, even those who defame online. Only if a lawsuit resulted in a court subpoena would BellSouth give up the name.

Little legal recourse

Federal law also protects online corporations ?- BellSouth, AOL, MCI Wikipedia, etc. ?- from libel lawsuits. Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, passed in 1996, specifically states that "no provider or user of an interactive computer service shall be treated as the publisher or speaker." That legalese means that, unlike print and broadcast companies, online service providers cannot be sued for disseminating defamatory attacks on citizens posted by others.

Recent low-profile court decisions document that Congress effectively has barred defamation in cyberspace. Wikipedia's website acknowledges that it is not responsible for inaccurate information, but Wales, in a recent C-Span interview with Brian Lamb, insisted that his website is accountable and that his community of thousands of volunteer editors (he said he has only one paid employee) corrects mistakes within minutes.

My experience refutes that. My "biography" was posted May 26. On May 29, one of Wales' volunteers "edited" it only by correcting the misspelling of the word "early." For four months, Wikipedia depicted me as a suspected assassin before Wales erased it from his website's history Oct. 5. The falsehoods remained on Answers.com and Reference.com for three more weeks.

In the C-Span interview, Wales said Wikipedia has "millions" of daily global visitors and is one of the world's busiest websites. His volunteer community runs the Wikipedia operation, he said. He funds his website through a non-profit foundation and estimated a 2006 budget of "about a million dollars."

And so we live in a universe of new media with phenomenal opportunities for worldwide communications and research ?- but populated by volunteer vandals with poison-pen intellects. Congress has enabled them and protects them.

When I was a child, my mother lectured me on the evils of "gossip." She held a feather pillow and said, "If I tear this open, the feathers will fly to the four winds, and I could never get them back in the pillow. That's how it is when you spread mean things about people."

For me, that pillow is a metaphor for Wikipedia.

John Seigenthaler, a retired journalist, founded The Freedom Forum First Amendment Center at Vanderbilt University. He also is a former editorial page editor at USA TODAY.

Source

An interesting read. Of course, popular/in the news topics are going to be checked, rechecked, and checked some more for content. But what about less popular material that still might be of research value to someone. How often is this material reviewed for mistakes, spam, etc?
0 Replies
 
husker
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 03:03 pm
no more "that's my home page"
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dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 03:17 pm
Whoa!
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Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 03:19 pm
I will be keeping an eye on this one...
0 Replies
 
husker
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 03:22 pm
I was wondering if I could join the wiki stuff and start chaning things?
0 Replies
 
yitwail
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Dec, 2005 03:33 pm
husker, for the most part you don't need to be on their staff to edit something. i think there are things that only staff can edit, but those are exceptions. basically, wikipedia relies on an honor system.
0 Replies
 
RobertSieger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 May, 2006 10:07 pm
RE; WIKIPEDIA ADMINISTRATORS AND EDITORS:

The tragic thing that is going on with Wikipedia is that Catholic censors and apologists (mostly Irish, of course) have gotten adminiships and have taken over, deleting anything they don't like, without even any explanation or justification. They have already gotten away with removing any reference to Adolf Hitler's Roman Catholicism, but bringing out the tired old bromides about how he wasn't "really" a Catholic. He was never excommunicated, so I venture a guess that he was a Catholic, as was his wife, Eva Braun. The Third Reich was the most Catholic government in German history. Needless to say that can no longer be mentioned. Most Wikipedian have no idea what is going on, but many are to be blamed because they mindlessly follow directives from the abusers without question or even reviewing what they are reverting or deleting or censoring or blocking. They respond with Pavlovian instincts to any perceived breach of any wikietiquette without even reviewing what they are helping to censor.

A caveat - I am a banned user from Wikipedia, a rare honour, given the logistics of Wikipedia, because of injudicious, shall we say, language towards fellow editors. I admit that, but the entire thing was cooked up by one person - an editor who calls himself "Demiurge" (it has a religious meaning, but I don't care). He requested a RfC (Request for Comment) against me (which has no teeth), and later a RfA (Request for Arbitration), which does have teeth. Several members of the Arbitration Committee are Catholics, and should have recused themselves. One, Sean Barrett, has an anti-Protestant (anti-Presbyterian to be exact) doggerel on his homepage (at least the last time I checked), and he is a high-ranking Wiki bureaucrat!!!

Even when they block me, almost always abusively, a few hours later, I am good to go, but even I have to admit that I usually can't get my way without the "kindness of strangers" (i.e. the help of third party Wikipedians, most of whom have no idea of the Catholic coup d'etat).

The worst-known (to date) Catholic censors/apologists/revisionists include:

1) Musical Linguist (aka Ann H.) , an extremely abusive Irish administrator, whose homepage is a shrine to Catholic apologetics, and in case you aren't aware, she lets you know that she is a Catholic wikipedian, a Roman Catholic wikipedian, and an Irish wikipedian, amongst other things. She deleted a quote from an 80 plus year old native of Traunstein, Bavaria, Elizabeth Lohner, who disputed the Ratzinger brothers' claims that they had no choice but to follow the Nazi regime. The quote was from the Times of London, and her explanation/justification - nada. She (and others on this list) will go and delete not only your edits, but messages you leave on other Wikipedians' discussion pages, citing, when she bothers, alleged "incivility".

2) Demiurge - Irishman - the one who got me banned to silence me forever, although, of course, that is not the case, as I still edit, but am forced to do so without signing in. He is not an administrator yet, to my knowledge, but it may happen soon. I forced my will regarding some wikipages that he tried to take over, with the help of good third party Wikipedians who have no idea what is happening. I don't want to mention the specific pages lest they be revisited. I'm tired of being Sisyphus. Tends to delete anything he thinks I wrote using boilerplate nonsense excuses like "POV" or "sockpuppet" or "banned user" as justification.

3) Jtdirl, another abusive Irish administrator, who is the one pushing the Hitler line re Catholicism, although, of course, he can provide not a scintilla of cited or sourced backup for his POV. Claims on his homepage that he is "a lapsed Roman Catholic".

4) Ali-oops - native of Ireland, living in Cork, now I believe, but claims not to be a Catholic. Always throws his lot in with the above-mentioned (and others), and tries to pretend it is b/c I am not willing to discuss things with other editors. Tends to delete anything he thinks I wrote using boilerplate nonsense like "POV" or "sockpuppet" as justification. Even when he claims I am not all wrong he deleted the entire edit, rather than just whatever he found objectionable, knowing that I would have to resubmit and then be censored or revised by one of his buddies. Not an administrator - yet.

5) Camillus - Camillus Patrick McElhinney, one of the few (besides myself) Wikipedians to use his real name. Glasgow-area computer scientist. Claims he is not a "theologist" and does "not attend church". You can Google his name it if you want.

NOT ALL BAD, but insisted on creating a sectarian, divisive site called "Irish-Scots", but fudges the real reasons for sectarianism in Scotland, and sanitizes the history and even the list of names of prominent "Irish-Scots". Abbetted, mindlessly, by his non-Catholic lackeys (Graeme L., an administrator, and Angus McLellan, another person to, apparently, use his real name).

6) Sceptre - no idea of nationality. Real name may be "Will". 15-year old administrator who talks tough on his website about how he supports "the one-revert rule" (blocking anyone who tries to revert anything after one try), as opposed to the three-revert rule now, technically, in place. However, on one occasion (of many), Demiurge and I engaged in a long revert battle, much longer than most, way beyond three reverts. Of course, only I was blocked in the end by young Will. 15-years old!!! (Look up the movie "Wild in the Streets".)

Very, very sad, and Mr. Wales is not particularly interested. I know - I emailed him. Maybe he has made the mistake of believing his own staffers.

Robert Sieger
[email protected]
0 Replies
 
makemeshiver33
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 May, 2006 10:11 pm
I always found it best when using Wikipedia to click on the discussion area of the post and discover if there has been a chat over it, to see if everyone is in agreement or not before I use anything information from Wikipedia...
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RobertSieger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 May, 2006 10:44 pm
MAKE ME SHIVER33
Sadly, makemeshiver33 does not understand that the issue is abuse of power and attempts at censorship, revisionism and apologetics. Often a discussion page will not have been created yet, although any user can create it.

When a discussion page does happen to exist allone can do is leave one's opinions, etc., which is fine, but when you are dealing with the calibre of people who will actually take it upon himself or herself (such as Demiurge, Musical Linguist, etc.) to DELETE what you have written for whatever reason, then it is a matter of abuse.

And as I first learned when I used Wikipedia you are warned in the beginning that Wikipedia can do "little" regarding "abusive editors". That being the case it must be understood that this is a battle for hearts and minds. People prefer to get their info from easy sources, even when books by Gerard Posner, Penny Lernoux (the late wonderful Penny Lernoux) and John Cornwell can finally be printed, the number of people who read them cannot compare with those who get their info. from Wikipedia and other sources subject to censorship, manipulation, etc. Public schools can't be relied upon, and Catholic schools aren't going to tell the truth about the Church, so...

Robert Sieger
[email protected]
0 Replies
 
makemeshiver33
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 May, 2006 08:08 am
Quote:
Sadly, makemeshiver33 does not understand that the issue is abuse of power and attempts at censorship, revisionism and apologetics. Often a discussion page will not have been created yet, although any user can create it.



Ummm,derr.......

Unfortunately, Yes..I understood. I simply said I like to click on the discussion page to see whats going on....

BUT...you wouldn't happen to know that I have a text book with the available knowledge, or the fact that I have looked up different websites for existing information on the same subject....to see if it coincides...

I don't base any knowledgeable information on Wikipedia alone...I, am..derrr smarter than that....

But I get your jist about the censorship...anyone can post on WIKIPEDIA...and anyone can go back and delete your postings....
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 May, 2006 10:12 am
Quote:
Online encyclopedia entries on U.S. senators and representatives are being rewritten by Congressional aides.
February 2, 2006

The online encyclopedia Wikipedia has been seeing alterations in entries for members of Congress, including insults like "smells like cow dung" that seem to originate from within the halls of Congress itself.



That reference was made in the entry for Eric Cantor, a Republican representative from Virginia, according to CNET News.com. Another entry, about Senator Tom Coburn, an Oklahoma Republican, said he "was voted the most annoying Senator by his peers in Congress. This was due to Senator Coburn being a huge douche-bag."



Presidential spokesman Scott McClellan was listed under a similar term. Yet another entry, about Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, called him "ineffective."



Wikipedia has traced much of this activity to IP addresses assigned to the Senate and the House of Representatives. The online encyclopedia, which permits anonymous users to post entries and edit others' entries, has traced more than 1,000 instances of such alterations over the past six months to Congressional computers.



The problem got so bad that Wikipedia has repeatedly blocked and then unblocked one of the offending IP addresses from making further changes to its encyclopedia entries. The latest block occurred Wednesday.


More: http://www.redherring.com/Article.aspx?a=15576&hed=Wikipedia+Hit+by+%E2%80%98Vandals%E2%80%99+
0 Replies
 
RobertSieger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 May, 2006 07:38 am
WIKIPEDIA
Derr.... (what does that mean by the way, is it supposed to be like "Duh" or "Doh"?) ... it is more than someone merely deleting your edits, although that is often infuriating when it is for no good reason.

From Wikipedia's own site (about itself):
"Wikipedia has become increasingly controversial as it has gained prominence and popularity, with many critics alleging that Wikipedia's open nature makes it unauthoritative and unreliable, that it exhibits severe systemic bias and inconsistency, and that the group dynamics of its community are hindering its goals. Wikipedia has also been criticized for its use of dubious sources, its disregard for credentials, and its vulnerability to vandalism and special interest groups. Critics of Wikipedia include Wikipedia editors themselves, ex-editors, representatives of other encyclopedias, and even subjects of articles."

When you have a mob bent on censoring anything and everything they do not like, from unsavoury details about Pope Benedict XVI to the true history of Glasgow Celtic football club, and they are abetted by bureaucrats who have no idea what they are even helping to censor then there is a BIG problem.

I was just on Wikipedia, and of course, the usual suspects are at it.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 May, 2006 05:35 pm
RobertSieger wrote:
The Third Reich was the most Catholic government in German history.


Quote:
Clemens August, count von Galen
born March 16, 1878, Dinklage, Oldenburg, Germany
died March 22, 1946, Münster, West Germany [now in Germany]
Roman Catholic bishop of Münster, Germany, who was noted for his public opposition to Nazism.
[...]
His opposition to the Nazis, particularly their racism and totalitarianism, began on Easter 1934 and continued unabated. He frequently complained directly to Hitler when he felt the German dictator had violated the concordat he had signed in 1933 with the Vatican. When in November 1936 the Oldenburg Nazis removed all crucifixes from the schools, Galen's protest sparked a public demonstration, and the order was canceled. In July and August 1941 Galen preached against the general lawlessness of the Gestapo, the confiscation of religious property, and the T4 Program instituted by Hitler in 1939?-a program involving the systematic murder of more than 70,000 sick, elderly, mentally retarded, physically infirm, emotionally distraught, and disabled Germans, who were an embarrassment to the myth of Aryan supremacy. In part because of Galen's public protest, this program was formally halted, though it continued clandestinely.

Documents discovered later showed that the Nazis were close to a decision to hang Galen but decided to wait until they achieved a victory in World War II. Galen was named a cardinal on February 18, 1946.

source: Encyclopædia Britannica http://www.britannica.com/eb/article-9035855 [Accessed May 9, 2006].

Just adding to the above that e.g. the condemnation of Nazi anti-Semitism by the Dutch bishops of occupied Holland (July 26, 1942) provoked Hitler to order the arrest of all non-Aryan Roman Catholics and send them in concentration camps. (The most famous, Edith Stein, was beatified by Pope John Paul II on May 1, 1987. She was canonized on Oct. 11, 1998.)
0 Replies
 
RobertSieger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 May, 2006 04:18 pm
RE Clemens August, count von Galen
I don't hear any denial from Walter re the Concordat signed between the Vatican and the Nazis, the refusal of the Vatican to excommunicate a single Nazi or fascist during or after World War 2, or even any mention by Count von Galen regarding the Jews, Gypsies, and dissidents slaughtered by the Nazis.

The Holocaust was the logical culmination of almost a thousand years (at least) of Catholic inspired anti-Jewish hatred fostered by the Roman Catholic Church.

I didn't intend to gtet into the actual subject of Catholic anti-Semitism on this site, just to draw attention to the censorship and apologetics on Wikipedia, but Walter forces me to at least address the issue (in truncated form).
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 May, 2006 04:24 pm
Re: RE Clemens August, count von Galen
RobertSieger wrote:
I didn't intend to gtet into the actual subject of Catholic anti-Semitism on this site, just to draw attention to the censorship and apologetics on Wikipedia, but Walter forces me to at least address the issue (in truncated form).


Maybe we could discuss your apparent need to bash Catholics at the same time??? Where is your evidence that the admins and editors on Wikipedia are all Irish Catholics?? Or is that the label you throw on anyone you disagree with?
0 Replies
 
ebrown p
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 May, 2006 05:20 pm
Wikipedia is the best source for biographical and technical information. If you want to know when Galileo died, or what CORBA is there is not much better source than Wikipedia.

Current controversial topics are much more of a crap shoot, and often political bias is very evident. But then, if you are looking for objectivity, a mob is the wrong place to look.

But it is what it is. If you understand this, I think it is a valuable resource.
0 Replies
 
 

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