The Eighth Myth About Islam (the big problem)

Does the Koran really preach what the fundamental Islamics believe ? For example, using any method available to convert people to Islam including extortion and blackmail?

Does the Koran really preach what the fundamental Islamics believe ? For example, using any method available to convert people to Islam including extortion and blackmail?

A muslim on the other hand has to be in major violation of the basic tenets of HIS religion in order to be a decent person.

A muslim on the other hand has to be in major violation of the basic tenets of HIS religion in order to be a decent person.

The good news is that the basic ideas of normal religion are more or less imprinted on most people biologically. That's the only reason that Islammic societies, or secular humanist societies like Canada or many European nations for that matter, work at all.

gungasnake wrote:

A muslim on the other hand has to be in major violation of the basic tenets of HIS religion in order to be a decent person.

I am afraid that is not correct. In order to be a decent person, we have to follow the teachings of the Noble Qur'an. To prove it, here are some verses:

- "In the case of those who say, "Our Lord is Allah., and, further, stand straight and steadfast, the angels descend on them (from time to time): "Fear ye not!" (they suggest), "Nor grieve! but receive the Glad Tidings of the Garden (of Bliss), the which ye were promised!" [Glorious Qur'an 41:30]
- "Keep us on the right path. " [Glorious Qur'an 1:6]
- " Verily Man is in loss, Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.
" [Glorious Qur'an 103:2-3]

There are many other verses which state that true Muslims are those who are righteous, decent and honest.

Section 2:

178. O you who believe! retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the slain, the free for the free, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female, but if any remission is made to any one by his (aggrieved) brother, then prosecution (for the bloodwit) should be made according to usage, and payment should be made to him in a good manner; this is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy; so whoever exceeds the limit after this he shall have a painful chastisement.

179. And there is life for you in (the law of) retaliation, O men of understanding, that you may guard yourselves.

191. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

193. And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.

216. Fighting is enjoined on you, and h is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.

217. They ask you concerning the sacred month about fighting in it. Say: Fighting in it is a grave matter, and hindering (men) from Allah's way and denying Him, and (hindering men from) the Sacred Mosque and turning its people out of it, are still graver with Allah, and persecution is graver than slaughter; and they will not cease fighting with you until they turn you back from your religion, if they can; and whoever of you turns back from his religion, then he dies while an unbeliever-- these it is whose works shall go for nothing in this world and the hereafter, and they are the inmates of the fire; therein they shall abide.

218. Surely those who believed and those who fled (their home) and strove hard in the way of Allah these hope for the mercy of Allah and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful....

muslim1 wrote:

gungasnake wrote:

A muslim on the other hand has to be in major violation of the basic tenets of HIS religion in order to be a decent person.

I am afraid that is not correct. In order to be a decent person, we have to follow the teachings of the Noble Qur'an. To prove it, here are some verses:

- "In the case of those who say, "Our Lord is Allah., and, further, stand straight and steadfast, the angels descend on them (from time to time): "Fear ye not!" (they suggest), "Nor grieve! but receive the Glad Tidings of the Garden (of Bliss), the which ye were promised!" [Glorious Qur'an 41:30]
- "Keep us on the right path. " [Glorious Qur'an 1:6]
- " Verily Man is in loss, Except such as have Faith, and do righteous deeds, and (join together) in the mutual teaching of Truth, and of Patience and Constancy.
" [Glorious Qur'an 103:2-3]

There are many other verses which state that true Muslims are those who are righteous, decent and honest.

The following are verses from the Koran:

Quote:

Section 2:

178. O you who believe! retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the slain, the free for the free, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female, but if any remission is made to any one by his (aggrieved) brother, then prosecution (for the bloodwit) should be made according to usage, and payment should be made to him in a good manner; this is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy; so whoever exceeds the limit after this he shall have a painful chastisement.

179. And there is life for you in (the law of) retaliation, O men of understanding, that you may guard yourselves.

191. And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

193. And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for Allah, but if they desist, then there should be no hostility except against the oppressors.

216. Fighting is enjoined on you, and h is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.

217. They ask you concerning the sacred month about fighting in it. Say: Fighting in it is a grave matter, and hindering (men) from Allah's way and denying Him, and (hindering men from) the Sacred Mosque and turning its people out of it, are still graver with Allah, and persecution is graver than slaughter; and they will not cease fighting with you until they turn you back from your religion, if they can; and whoever of you turns back from his religion, then he dies while an unbeliever-- these it is whose works shall go for nothing in this world and the hereafter, and they are the inmates of the fire; therein they shall abide.

218. Surely those who believed and those who fled (their home) and strove hard in the way of Allah these hope for the mercy of Allah and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful....

I mean, that sort of thing is the bulk of the Koran and not the exception. The Koran is basically a cookbook for a world war. The world war was basically turned off around 1600 AD when the West surpassed the muslim world so utterly that continuing it would have meant the extermination of the muslim world. Muslims who think that situation has changed much are not doing the muslim world any favors.

The koran sounds very interesting to me, much more interesting than the Bible, who preaches some saviour of the world who never existed, and all the new testament does is boast about a bunch of deeds which were impossible to believe. At least the koran doesnt do that. The biological nature of human beings is a selfish one, so how can Christianity ever work? Trying to live the way of the christian is complete denial of the biological nature of human beings, and this is exactly why I dont believe. With all the godly qualities christians preach, we might as well just commit suicide. At least the koran sounds more realistic in the sense that it doesnt try to conceal the very nature of human beings, that we are capable of acting in selfish interests, that we are capable of being angry at times.

The one other thing I should probably mention, is that the new testament does in fact check out historically; sort of a long story but it does. There's one famous case of a guy who was a sort of a famous British historian and atheist who set out on a grand tour to prove that the book of Acts was BS and ended up converting to Christianity because of what he found out.

gungasnake wrote:

The one other thing I should probably mention, is that the new testament does in fact check out historically; sort of a long story but it does. There's one famous case of a guy who was a sort of a famous British historian and atheist who set out on a grand tour to prove that the book of Acts was BS and ended up converting to Christianity because of what he found out.

Can you tell me a little about what he actually found out.
I would find a [candyass] religion such as Christianity a little easier to accept if the New Testament does in fact play out historically.

Jamesw84 wrote:

gungasnake wrote:

The one other thing I should probably mention, is that the new testament does in fact check out historically; sort of a long story but it does. There's one famous case of a guy who was a sort of a famous British historian and atheist who set out on a grand tour to prove that the book of Acts was BS and ended up converting to Christianity because of what he found out.

Can you tell me a little about what he actually found out.
I would find a [candyass] religion such as Christianity a little easier to accept if the New Testament does in fact play out historically.

This is a pdf file of a sort of an ultimate sermon I heard once at the McLean Bible Church, pastor Lon Solomon. It concerns Sir William Ramsey, one of the worlds foremost historians of the late 1800s and early 1900s who set out to prove that the Book of Acts was a fictional document and converted to Christianity because of what he turned up:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1...76DOsaKaY6y5M0M

This is a pdf file of a sort of an ultimate sermon I heard once at the McLean Bible Church, pastor Lon Solomon. It concerns Sir William Ramsey, one of the worlds foremost historians of the late 1800s and early 1900s who set out to prove that the Book of Acts was a fictional document and converted to Christianity because of what he turned up:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=1...76DOsaKaY6y5M0M