1
   

Beyond here there be dragons.

 
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Nov, 2005 07:13 pm
Okay, thunder runner, you can stay. And perhaps I'll even change my location back to normal now that only seemingly sane CHSers seem to be around!

You do make a very good point.

Personally I don't expect anyone, no matter their religion or lack thereof, to be perfect. Even us non-Christians strive to be good.

What drives me, and I suspect others, crazy is the declaration that we're hellbound because we don't believe. Even when we struggle, often more than they do, to do what is "right".

I have relatives that just hate it that I'm going to hell when I'm really such a nice person who has done some really nice things.

And I do believe in "practice what you preach". People who can't should shut their yaps until they get a bit better at it.

But that's just my opinion.
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goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Nov, 2005 07:48 pm
What is "the strife of being good"?
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lightfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Nov, 2005 08:13 pm
Boomerang.
Quote, from a very dear relation..." I can prove there is a God " ( then asked him what he meant by "A"God, seeing it implied there was more than one) he then stated, that other people were entitled to believe what they wanted and others might believed they had a God ??? ) so I asked him to prove to me there was his God. He then quoted reams of Biblical verse, I replied, ''from what you are saying, there is only your Christian God is the true God and Quoting the Bible isn't enough to prove to me that there was a God".... pointing out, there was as much "evidence" of the truth in what he was saying, as there was evidence of the existence of Cinderella. His reply, was that it wouldn't make any difference if he did come up with evidence, I still wouldn't believe it..... he walked away happy with his statements, perhaps because it didn't require him to "question " his belief, thus making his God real.
I feel sure the vast majority of Christians would think and do the same.
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thunder runner32
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2005 11:11 am
Quote:

What is "the strife of being good"?


The everyday battle of doing your best, and being remorseful when you don't.

Quote:
Personally I don't expect anyone, no matter their religion or lack thereof, to be perfect. Even us non-Christians strive to be good.


The way I look at it now is that the people who preach somthing, must also talk about how even the preacher fails.
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goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2005 06:00 pm
thunder_runner said:

Quote:
The everyday battle of doing your best, and being remorseful when you don't.

.................


Thanks - it sounds like the way jihad has been described in Islam.

But I've wondered about this. Why is it so hard to be good? Seriously.
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2005 06:15 pm
I don't think it's hard to be good.

But I have a pretty lax definition of good: a first do no harm doctor type thing.

Sometimes though doing what you know is right can be a real struggle.

Sometimes selfish looks like a very comfortable place.
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Questioner
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2005 06:17 pm
goodfielder wrote:


Thanks - it sounds like the way jihad has been described in Islam.

But I've wondered about this. Why is it so hard to be good? Seriously.


If this is a question open to anyone I'd like a shot at it.

The concepts of good and evil are largely quantified by what man (especially modern man) feels are unquestionable morals.

We take strong moral objection to rape. It is therefore 'evil'. We take strong moral objection to genocide. Again, 'evil'. We believe that helping those in need is both beneficial and self-edifying. Thus 'good'.

Having outlined that, a possible answer to your question is: The majority of the vices that we enjoy are considered by many to be socially unacceptable. This includes but is not limited to: Being staggering drunk in a public venue, surfing porn for hours and hours. . . and hours, drugs, etc. etc.

The majority of those vices are addictive ones, which by definition would make them 'easier' to do than not. Doing deeds that are largely considered to be 'good' generally either takes time, money, or work. None of those options are overly motivating, while the vices take little, and are garunteed to be instantly gratifying.

A better question would be: How did the original set of morals that lead to the categorizations of 'good' and 'evil' come to be, and who set them?
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2005 06:39 pm
Interesting observation, Questioner!

I just finished reading a book about thoughtful disipline for children.

The book deals mostly with what they call "stop" and "start" behaviors.

What you say about it being harder to motivate oneself towards good behavior falls in line exactly with what the book said. This would be the "start" behavior.

On the other hand "stop" behaviors only take a minute to quit. Even if you have to quit over and over and over and over and over again it still doesn't require so much endurance.

Very, very interesting definitions. Food for thought. Thank you!
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goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2005 06:47 pm
Thanks for the illuminating thoughts. I was feeling a bit guilty there because I haven't found "being good" to be that much of a struggle. That got me thinking that if it's easy being good then I must have some pretty lax morals. But boomerang saved the day - "first, do no harm." Works for me.
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2005 08:32 pm
Works for me too!

But in my case, doing harm or not became quite complicated. If I protected myself, would it harm others and if it did, what harm came to me.

Luckily, I was 42 (isn't that the answer to the universe?) when I hit that crossroad so I had a bit of life experience under my belt.

Deciding where the lesser harm and the greater good lay was an immense struggle.

I THINK I made the right decision, not only for others but for me. But truly I'll never know.

What lies around the bend in the path you didn't choose?

Sometimes, defining "harm" is the hardest thing you'll ever do.

Sometimes, your life depends on it.

In a way I hope every person hits a crossroad that forces them to examine every molicule of their being.

In another way, I pray that very few ever do.
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jstark
 
  1  
Reply Wed 16 Nov, 2005 09:36 pm
As for the trouble of proving there is no God, we are doing that every day we advance our knowledge. God resides just beyond the reaches of our understanding. That is to say, God dwells in our ignorance. As we uncover more of the mysteries of the Universe, God reseeds into the unknown. The question I have is whether it is possible for humans to know _everything_ or if there will always be a place for God because we are simply limited by time, space, quantum uncertainty, whatever.

It seems that for a long while there will be a place for chance, coincidence, divine intervention, or whatever people attribute to events that are beyond our comprehension.

This is at least what I believe about that God described in that book.

-J
0 Replies
 
flushd
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2005 12:04 am
Shocked

I'm gonna be your God. Laughing
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Questioner
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2005 08:16 am
Nice avatar flushd. Very Happy
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Diane
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2005 11:18 pm
Boomerang, your last post was on spot. Even if there were proof that God exists, our age might play a part in how we would react.

Hopefully, at his age, god would be very mellow and wise.
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