1
   

Beyond here there be dragons.

 
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 07:28 pm
When I look at how much things have changed just within my lifetime -- things we've learned, things we've done, I'm amazed.

Within the next half of my lifetime I can imagine that we will be able to prove all kinds of things we can't even imagine today.

I have no idea of how God or god will ever be proved or disproved but that doesn't mean it will be impossible.

Ah, man. The gluttony thread was great. One of my favorites. I'm a complete idiot.
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djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 07:41 pm
the more i think about this, the less i worry about if god is proven or not, there's tons of real stuff i choose not to believe in amyway
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Diane
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 07:42 pm
As an agnostic, learning that god really existed would be, finally, a way to pick out the real parts of the bible. Wow, that would cause many Christians to claim that this god couldn't possibly be the real god because the bible is god's word, not stuff edited for Constatine, using certain parts and passages--leaving other parts out--to develop a Christian church in Rome.

I also would find out if rocks, trees, mountains and animals have a spirit. I'll betcha $50.00 bucks they do.
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goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Nov, 2005 08:38 pm
Quote:
If you're not a believer in god and it was scientifically proved that he did exist, what would you do?


I'd be working on a list of excuses..... Very Happy Seriously I would do nothing. I wouldn't have to. I live my life according to the moral precepts of Christianity as best I can because that's the moral code I was taught as a child and it's the moral code that underpins the secular law of my society. Where the moral code and the secular law clash then I follow the secular law because I don't regard myself as being bound by Christian precepts.

As for religion. I have no problem with people practising their religion. I just don't want it affecting me. If I lived in Kansas and I had children they would be learning evolution as a scientific theory, they would be getting religious instruction until they were old enough to make their own minds up about it. They would not be taught creationism in any form, including the current ID camouflage model.
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thunder runner32
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Nov, 2005 11:04 am
Quote:
If you're not a believer in god and it was scientifically proved that he did exist, what would you do?


I think that things wouldn't change that much. Some people would still respect other people and recognize God as the guy who's in charge...others would continue to turn their backs to him.
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Redeemed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 12:34 pm
Questioner wrote:

Quote:
I think perhaps it's that there is an unshakable adoration on the side of the faithful that more or less makes this topic of conversation pointless for them to even bother discussing.


*Smile* Actually, I know in my own faith experience that I have a lot of questions. There are days when I wonder if there really is a God, or if I'm just stupid for believing in something I can't see.

I know this won't make much sense to those of you who don't believe in God or Christianity, but I feel like I should say it anyway. The Bible (which I adhere to) says that God is spirit. When I first became a Christian, it's as if a new part of me has come alive. There's really no other way that I can think to explain it except to say that something, which was dead or nonexistent before knowing Him was brought to life. It's a totally different experience that I believe you can only know if you "take the jump," so to speak.

So as to the scientific proof part of it... I don't think it's possible to prove or disprove it. If God is spirit, then it's outside of science all together. Science centers on physical observation, which kind of eliminates experiments on God Smile. It's hard for me to answer the question, then, because it's just not feasible to think about. You just couldn't be disproving (or proving) God.

Any questions are welcome... especially since I'm not sure that this is completely coherent (it's a bad time of the semester for a college student's mind...).
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 12:53 pm
Redeemed wrote:


So as to the scientific proof part of it... I don't think it's possible to prove or disprove it. If God is spirit, then it's outside of science all together. Science centers on physical observation, which kind of eliminates experiments on God Smile. It's hard for me to answer the question, then, because it's just not feasible to think about. You just couldn't be disproving (or proving) God.



But wait!

What if they could prove that "spirit" or "soul" exists?

I just finished reading "Spook: Science Takes on the Afterlife".

There is actual real research being conducted at honest and respectable universities by honest and respectable scientists regarding the afterlife.

So far they haven't proved squat but what if they did!

Who knows what might be observable in 50 years?

When my mom was a kid only Buck Rogers went to the moon.

When I was a kid they built entire buildings just to house computers.

My kid never spent a single day in the 20th century.

Impossilbe!?

Quote:
Alice laughed: "There's no use trying," she said; "one can't believe impossible things."
"I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."
Alice in Wonderland
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Redeemed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 01:37 pm
I know what you're saying, Boomerang. I'm just seeing it differently, partly because, in my opinion and experience, the existence of God is reality.

For instance, if science were to tell us that love (of the self-sacrificing kind) does not exist - that there is nothing in the human brain that could allow for love - would/could we truly believe it? Could those of you who are parents accept that what you feel for your children is nothing but an illusion(perhaps nonexistent all together), even if that is what science contends? How would that change your life?

That is the way God is in my life. He is as real to me as any emotion - more real, actually (and much, MUCH more predictable *smile*). It is impossible for me to deny His existence.
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 01:47 pm
Ah-ha!

The "illusion" of love has already changed my life.

I am raising a boy whose parents couldn't/wouldn't love him.

Not every parent loves their child.

Some children are loved by parent's grandparent's ex-neighbors.

I am glad that you have found such contentment. In my book, contentment is what life is all about.
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Redeemed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 02:03 pm
Boomerang: You're totally right - that kind of love may come from a number of other people besides just parents (though it sometimes does come from parents). I'm sorry I over-simplified the issue. And I'm glad you're raising the boy - that is an awesome example of self-sacrificing love. Smile
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 02:10 pm
I'm glad too.

My point is that it does not require belief in God to do the things that feel right in your heart.

It is not simple. I hate seeing America become so polarized over ideals that can easily encompass us all.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 02:11 pm
The priests of this world never made a bad man good, and the want of benefit of clergy never made a good man bad.
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 02:14 pm
That is exactly right, Setanta.

And that is what I was trying to get at with this thread. Proof, either way, wouldn't change much for me and judging by the responses on this thread it wouldn't for anyone else either.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 02:16 pm
It would make a change in my disposition--if the existence of a god were definitively proven, i'd have a helluva bone to pick with the old fakir . . .
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Redeemed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 04:07 pm
Boomerange wrote:

Quote:
My point is that it does not require belief in God to do the things that feel right in your heart.


Yes, and I agree with you. I think we still have a sense of right and wrong, especially in relation to our interactions with other people, when we don't believe in God. I just happen to think that that sense was given by God in the first place.
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Redeemed
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Nov, 2005 04:12 pm
Setanta wrote:

Quote:
The priests of this world never made a bad man good, and the want of benefit of clergy never made a good man bad.


I agree with you, too. People have never made one another bad or good. None of us has the ability to change someone else's heart, and imposing my religion on you is not going to change your opinion (I'm sure you'd agree with me on that one Very Happy).

IMO, actually having a personal experience with God (not just becoming religious or conforming to a moral code) changes a person for good. The clergy or the church as a whole haven't really been great examples of those transformations, though... (I think that it's because they weren't really Christians to begin with).
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thunder runner32
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Nov, 2005 08:53 am
According to the bible, Adam and Eve knew full well that God existed, they used to walk and talk with him, yet they went and sinned anyways.

Edit: P.S.

Boomerang, why do you have C.H.S as your location? Smile
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boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Nov, 2005 05:29 pm
Well I guess now we have to prove that Adam and Eve existed!

CHS -- that was just a little joke. At one point our site was overrun with kids from some high school that started with the letter C.

I stole their location just for kicks.

Are you one of those CHS kids?

Don't be going all God Squad on us.
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thunder runner32
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Nov, 2005 02:30 pm
Yes (sometimes unfortunately) I am a CHS'er.

Quote:
Don't be going all God Squad on us.

No worries! Wink

Quote:
Well I guess now we have to prove that Adam and Eve existed!


I don't think that we must rely on Adam and Eve's existence to see that even people who believe in God today, turn their back on him. A popular misconception is that Christianity is about being perfect, when in reality it is about the strife of being good.
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Questioner
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Nov, 2005 04:29 pm
thunder_runner32 wrote:

I don't think that we must rely on Adam and Eve's existence to see that even people who believe in God today, turn their back on him. A popular misconception is that Christianity is about being perfect, when in reality it is about the strife of being good.


An excellent point. I think quite a bit of the cynicism that rears it's head towards christianity is based on the flawed concept that if you preach it you must live it without fail.

This concept isn't dilluted any by many of the TV evangelists that the majority of the non-christian public have access to.
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