Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Mar, 2006 01:33 pm
The new 'unrest' in France has nothing to do with Muslims (although I'm rather sure, some will try to connect it) but with the social politc by the conservative government:

From AP: Police raid on Sorbonne protesters shows reform meets resistance in France

reuters: French police storm Sorbonne to halt protest

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,593944,00.jpg

Last week I spoke to some students at the Sorbonne (they just started their protests) as well at Université Paris VI (P&M Curie), where protests already had started: some think, it might develop as in 1968.

Until this minute, on 24 of 84 French universities protests are going on, with various extent.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Mar, 2006 02:03 pm
So, Walter or sopmeone who knows about French hiring/employment facts... Is the reason unemployment is so high partly owing to strict rules on firing unsuitable employees?

So, De Villipin sought to ease those restrictions, so employers are more apt to take a chance on youth?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Mar, 2006 02:08 pm
I agree with the last sentence in the reuters article: "Critics say it will make it easier for companies to fire young workers, increasing the feeling of insecurity that was seen as one of the root causes of the suburban riots last year."
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Mar, 2006 02:13 pm
Wouldn't it also increase the number of employees who are given a chance?

Are you actually prevented from firing a bad employee? Sounds like unions.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Mar, 2006 02:54 pm
Lash wrote:

Are you actually prevented from firing a bad employee? Sounds like unions.


It's called labour law here.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Mar, 2006 02:57 pm
Thanks for your information. I can see what the problem is. I hope they'll give DeVillipin's plan a chance. I think it will open the gates for a lot of young people. I can understand why no one would want to get stuck with an unproven worker.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Mar, 2006 02:59 pm
Lash wrote:
Thanks for your information. I can see what the problem is. I hope they'll give DeVillipin's plan a chance. I think it will open the gates for a lot of young people. I can understand why no one would want to get stuck with an unproven worker.


No-one has to do so, even not in France. From where do you get this idea?

French Labour Law
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Mar, 2006 03:08 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Lash wrote:

Are you actually prevented from firing a bad employee? Sounds like unions.


It's called labour law here.

I got that idea from here. I was asking you.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Mar, 2006 03:11 pm
Employees can be fired within a so-called probation period.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Mar, 2006 03:15 pm
OK. Thanks for the link. I will read it.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Mar, 2006 01:30 am
From reuters:

Quote:
French Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin prepared on Sunday to defend his unpopular labor reforms after riot police stormed the historic Sorbonne university in Paris to end a protest over the new law.

Villepin was scheduled to give a major television interview a day after riot police smashed their way into the faculty's halls in the heart of the capital's Latin Quarter and dragged some 200 demonstrators from the building.

...

The labor reforms are the brainchild of Villepin, a member of the ruling Gaullist UMP party, and came in response to widespread suburban unrest around France five months ago that was blamed in part on high levels of youth unemployment.

The First Employment Contract (CPE) would allow employers to sack a young employee after two years' trial without reason.

Villepin says these rules will make it easier for employers to take a risk on hiring a young person and create jobs.

But students see them as discriminatory and a threat to France's system of benefits and employment protection.

"We'll have no power of negotiation with the bosses. We want to have the same chances our parents did," said Pierrick Talguen, a 23-year-old sociology student from Nanterre.

A senior Gaullist figure, National Assembly speaker Jean-Louis Debre, who does not serve in government but whose voice is influential, raised the prospect of some compromise.

"The CPE will not solve everything. It can certainly be improved. But it is a way of getting young people out of their current impasse," he told Journal du Dimanche in an interview.

week of mounting protests over the labor law, which was forced through parliament using a fast-track procedure, has sent Villepin's popularity tumbling.

His number two in the conservative government, Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy, who is also seen as his main rival for the conservative nomination in 2007 presidential elections, cut short a trip to the French West Indies because of the protests.

Both men are anxious to avoid political mishaps in response to the rioting, after Sarkozy was widely said to have blundered by referring to last year's suburban rioters as "riff-raff."

Opposition Socialists said the government was out of touch and urged Villepin to back down on the labor reforms.




Frontpages of the "Le Parisien" and "Le Journal du Dimanche" as of today:

http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/6899/zwischenablage020dz.th.jpg http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/6018/zwischenablage020fe1.th.jpg

55% of all French are against this law, 65% of those under 30.

It really will be interesting to watch Villepin tonight as well as the (public) reaction afterwards!

(Not only the left, unions and students protest, critics include now members of the governing conservatives parties [like from the former foreign minister Charette] and the employers' federation Medef.)
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Mar, 2006 12:21 pm
Quote:
The First Employment Contract (CPE) would allow employers to sack a young employee after two years' trial without reason.


This seems quite remarkable to me. What does the present law require? Evidently it provides for even more than a two year proabationary period.
It seems to me that this kind of employment "security" will do far more harm than good by discouraging the creation of new businesses or the expansion of existing ones. Why would young people with energy, ambition, and creativity want such guaranteed employment at all?

A new employee in the U.S. can be laid off at any time, (as long as there is no unlawful discrimination involved.). This nreduces the finnancial risk involved in creating a new enterprise or expanding an established one. It encourages economic creativity and competition. It leads in the long run to greater economic growth and reduced unemployment.

Unemployment in the U.S. is about 4.7%. What is the corresponding figure in France?
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Mar, 2006 12:42 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
It seems to me that this kind of employment "security" will do far more harm than good by discouraging the creation of new businesses or the expansion of existing ones....

Unemployment in the U.S. is about 4.7%. What is the corresponding figure in France?


I for once agree, George. I live this situation from the inside and I think the new contract would have a great impact on the employment rate.

Unemployment rate is 10% in France and almost 11% in Germany...
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Mar, 2006 12:45 pm
Well France won 31:6 and deservedly so

Allez les Bleues

Well done Francis
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Mar, 2006 12:47 pm
georgeob1 wrote:

Unemployment in the U.S. is about 4.7%. What is the corresponding figure in France?


The U.S. jobless rate dropped by 0.4 percentage point to 5.1 percent in 2005 according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

In France it's far higher (even considering that the figures show a different clientel than in the USA = we count differently here and add more persons).

I must admit that I overead completely this sacking after two years' TRIAL without reason - thought, it was within the first two years. (Here in Germany, we have 6 month trial during which you can be sacked without reason).

Two years are really quite long for a trial - but I don't know how I would think about that when generations grew up with it here, too :wink: (The six month are valid in Germany for nearly 80 years now.)
However - we will get sooner or later here as well (sooner, I fear). That would be just another name for a short-term employment contract.
(And exctly that's what the students in France fear as well, as I was told.)
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Mar, 2006 01:42 pm
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Well France won 31:6 and deservedly so

Allez les Bleues

Well done Francis


It even doesn't make a riot in France Laughing
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Mar, 2006 01:53 pm
Francis wrote:

I for once agree, George. I live this situation from the inside and I think the new contract would have a great impact on the employment rate.


It's like with many other things, a point of view: we all see a tablespoon, but some think it's shaped concave while from the perspective of others it's convex :wink:
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Mar, 2006 01:56 pm
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
Well France won 31:6 and deservedly so

Allez les Bleues

Well done Francis


Wait until I'll get the results of our rugby team!

(On April 4, versus "Welsh Districts" Embarrassed )
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Mar, 2006 02:40 pm
Walter, in your relentless checking of figures, perhaps you noticed that I quoted the just released figure for the last month (not year) -- it is 4.7%, not 5.1%. I don't suggest the difference is meaningful, just that my data was correct.

In this country we have no government-mandated trial period at all. Employment is a private matter between employer and employee. It continues as long as both parties wish it or as long as stipulated in any contract which the two may freely make. The government has no voice at all in the transaction, other than the collection of taxes and the prevention of discrimination.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Mar, 2006 03:36 pm
Well, we got our basic labour laws already with the Civil Code, adopted on 18.08.1896 ...

And since 1927 we've got special Labour Courts (up to the Federal Labour Court), which were before branches of 'normal' courts.

And because of the German membership in the European Union (EU), labour law is strongly influenced by EU legislation and case law.

-----------

Probation time in Germany:

Probation is regulated in the Civil Code:

When concluding a labour contract the parties often agree on a probationary time of up to 6 months. During this period, the employee can be dismissed with notice of only 2 weeks (sec. 622 $ 3 Civil Code). Alternatively, the parties may enter the employment relationship by agreeing on a contract that is limited up to 6 months. The necessity of mutual testing is a justifying reason of the above-mentioned sec. 14 § 1.


National Labour Law Profile: Federal Republic of Germany - although not updated during the last years, that site seems to show the actual law (as far as I can remember :wink: )
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
  1. Forums
  2. » Riots in France
  3. » Page 7
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 05/18/2024 at 09:52:44