Dreams

An interesting theory. I frequently have "lucid dreams" in which I am aware that I am dreaming but I still can't predict nor control the actions of the other individuals in the dream. In fact, their words and actions often surpirse me. However, I would stop short of saying that they are independent sentient beings.

There might be something to that, at least in the sense one could make the argument we're all effected on some level by 'multiple personalities,' the manifestation of which, for 'sane' individuals, could occur in the dreamworld.

In other words, I'm not sure it's possible to disagree there may be multiple selves housed in the mind; but I don't think you could make the case those selves are independent of the main character: i.e. where those 'others' are in fact individuals with different experiences than the main self.

But hell, that's pretty trippy to think about. I'll give you that.

Wow, that's quite a unique thought!

I often see reactions in the "Dream People" that I would expect them to produce based upon my own projections, and then there are times when they're totally unpredictable. Some times these "people" come up with some crazy logic and intelligent thoughts that "I" would not be able to even fathom in an awaken state. Perhaps there are some neurons working together as an intelligent entity? What's to say they're not cohorting while you're awake too?

Not according to Rene Descartes, and I have to agree with Rene here

It would certainly be a unique way to explain why my wife keeps hitting me in her sleep.

Interesting concept, though I doubt whatever level of "sentience" present would be enough to justify labeling them as such.

Im gona be grabbing a dictionary and finding out what sentient means.

lol

sometimes i tried to speak out something while dreaming but failed all the times.
i felt very disappointed because i used all my energy to say "Help" but I couldn't. Nobody can't hear my appealing for help. Then I thought I was dead in my dream. Nightmare

Seems you are operating under the assumption that the contents of your mind exists separately from the rest of the world. While your thought is original, I do not think it is accurate, because I do not believe that we are separate individuals, not in waking, and not in sleeping.

But... if your theory was sound, just for the sake of speculation, do you suppose that it would be possible for one of these created selves to become the primary self, so that when you wake up you're a different self than when you went to sleep?

Heck, maybe there's even several selves, and the one doing the waking day is wichever one was active when you awoke. It would account for my varying daily outlooks. One day a pessimist, another an optimist....

Cyracuz,

I see your argument. From your point of view, take my argument to mean: The term individual is just as validly (or invalidly) applied to products of our dreams as to other people we meet while awake. That is, just as I have the illusion or idea of being an individual, so also the dreamed ones would have the illusion of being individuals.

"But... if your theory was sound, just for the sake of speculation, do you suppose that it would be possible for one of these created selves to become the primary self, so that when you wake up you're a different self than when you went to sleep?"

Not exactly. I don't think any self in the dream exactly corresponds with the waking self. Even if you focus on the point of view of your dream-memories, you realize that the person you were in the dream was different than you are now: reduced mental functioning, sometimes different memories and knowledge (a very interesting facet of dreaming: having knowledge of things without knowing how you got the knowledge).

It seems that in dreaming, the mind stops acting in a fully unified manner, and that mental processes run more independently of each other. In a sense, your 'self' becomes multiple 'selves' while dreaming which are then re-unified when waking up. The perspective in the dream that seems like 'you' is just the 'self' including the brain function of memory, so it is the only perspective that you remember when you wake up. Perhaps part of the reason for dreaming is to allow these parts of your mind to be able to act more freely and loosely.

Note that this theory does not entail that everything that seems to be a person in your dream is an individual. Some of these we are able to directly control with our thoughts. It would probably only apply to those who seem to be outside the control of our will.

Book Mark

It is certainly feasible that such an occurance could happen. People with multiple personality disorder essentially switch on different persona at will, each with their own memories and behaviors. What's stopping that occurance from happening while your body rests?

And would you consider MPD to fit the guidelines of "seperate sentient individuals"?

I had an intersting dream once. Somone was trying to convince me to enter a small hole in the side of a building. At this point I became aware that I was dreaming and refused. I walked down a long staircase. At the bottom of the stairs a very attractive young lady was sitting. Thinking to myself, "this is just a dream, therefore I can do anything I want!" At this point I leaned down to kiss her. To my surprise she backed off and said, "what the hell are you doing? I replied, "this is just a dream, right?" She replied, "So?" And I said, "then this is all in my head, right?" She replied, "well, yes and no". I knew that I was about to gain some incredible profound insight into dreams and I was also aware that I was about to wake up so I screamed, "what do you mean by that?" Before she could answer I woke up. Damn! I do find it interesting that I think a character in my dreams would know more about the nature of dreams than I do.

hmm.. Nickfun the superego comes to mind.. pun intended.

NickFun, that reminds me of a scene from the movie Waking Life.

I'm glad I read this post, because it just reminded me last night I had my first lucid dream. I've been hoping for one of those for years.

I can't remember what I did in it though. Drat.

I have been a "victim" of lucid dreams for some years now. Recently I investigated in the matter inspired by some movie - which name I can't recall - and found a very very interesting website that explained to me pretty much everything. From the meaning of lucid dreams, how to accomplish it, and other info. Unfortunately, its in spanish.

I hope this is not against the rules!

http://unicavia.com/mvplace/suenos.htm

There's loads of websites about it in English if you google" lucid dreaming." I love having them, they're sometimes more exciting than anything I've experienced while conscious.

They can be scary too.

I've been trying to program myself on having them. It can be done in purpose - so I've read...

It is said that creative or artistic activities can be easily done while dreaming, interviewing people that you know and analyzing their answers, and even try to see yourself from a 3rd persons perspective...