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Bush Picks Judge Samuel Alito for Supreme Court

 
 
Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 05:18 pm
As serious as some of the race merchants who, although they do not say exactly what I said, are famous for making ridiculous statements.

For example, they bemoan the fact that there are not more African-Americans in Science when past evidence shows that it is rare for African Americans to earn Doctorates in Science.

On the other hand, Asians seem to do quite well in the Scientific Areas.

Asians are NOT inherently and/or genetically superior to African-Americans, but they are from a different culture.

Again- Thomas Sowell-- quote--"The mere fact that different peoples and cultures have evolved in radically different geographical settings is alone enough to make similarity of skills virtually impossible>"

31% of the students at MIT are Asians. Only about 5% are African-American.

The race merchants will say we need parity!

Impossible until African-American Culture becomes more like Asian culture.

I won't hold my breath until that happens.
0 Replies
 
Steppenwolf
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 06:35 pm
Mortkat wrote:
As serious as some of the race merchants who, although they do not say exactly what I said, are famous for making ridiculous statements.

For example, they bemoan the fact that there are not more African-Americans in Science when past evidence shows that it is rare for African Americans to earn Doctorates in Science.

On the other hand, Asians seem to do quite well in the Scientific Areas.

Asians are NOT inherently and/or genetically superior to African-Americans, but they are from a different culture.

Again- Thomas Sowell-- quote--"The mere fact that different peoples and cultures have evolved in radically different geographical settings is alone enough to make similarity of skills virtually impossible>"

31% of the students at MIT are Asians. Only about 5% are African-American.

The race merchants will say we need parity!

Impossible until African-American Culture becomes more like Asian culture.

I won't hold my breath until that happens.


My we like our straw men. You've done a marvelous job knocking out that Thomas Sowell argument -- and right after making it all by yourself. Nifty!
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 06:43 pm
Mortkat wrote:
As serious as some of the race merchants who, although they do not say exactly what I said, are famous for making ridiculous statements.

Oh, I see. You were trying to be sarcastic! I get it. So when you denied that you had "made a funny," it wasn't because you were being serious, it was because what you said wasn't funny at all.
0 Replies
 
Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 11:59 pm
"Me we like our strawmen, says Steppenwolf" ?????????????

What Strawmen? I don have no strawmen. I don have to show you no stinking strawmen.

Come on, steppenwolf, rebut the argument. Don't hide behind a facile phrase. Is Sowell's arguement incorrect? If so, why--speficially!!!!
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twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 09:25 am
Strawman arguments don't require rebuttal. They are invalid and fall on their own weight.
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twinpeaksnikki2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 09:32 am
Isn't telling that this idea of allowing Roe to be overturned because of the political firestorm and backlash it will create is a postition advocated almost exclusively by men?
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Steppenwolf
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 09:35 am
Mortkat wrote:
"Me we like our strawmen, says Steppenwolf" ?????????????

What Strawmen? I don have no strawmen. I don have to show you no stinking strawmen.

Come on, steppenwolf, rebut the argument. Don't hide behind a facile phrase. Is Sowell's arguement incorrect? If so, why--speficially !!!!


Lol, perhaps you don't understand what "strawman" means; perhaps you don't understand that I wasn't arguing against Sowell, but against your dishonest style of 'debating'; and perhaps you don't know how to spell "don't," "specifically," and "argument." But somehow I doubt all of that. There are faint hints of intelligence buried in your otherwise garbled posts, and everything reeks of straw. Anyway, I won't waste any more space on this thread dealing with phony arguments. But thanks for the invite.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 09:53 am
Mortkat
Your attitude is I take it if you can't achieve this equalization based upon, competence, ability, and knowledge you achieve it by quota. Sort of political open enrollment.
I guess you could term that getting to the common denominator.
0 Replies
 
Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 04:43 pm
Steppenwolf- Thanks for letting me know that you are incapable and unwilling to face up to the argument.

The term "strawman" is one I am with which I am familiar. It is usually used by those who cannot respond to the argument.

Very well. Deal with this "strawman"

Despite massive outpourings of millions and millions of dollars in Federal Aid to schools whose children are classified as being impoverished; notwithstanding the frantic efforts to grant even marginally prepared students places in Universities through Affirmative Action and even though businesses all over the country are urged to hire more African-Americans, the Asian Minority outclasses African-Americans in almost every scholastic area.

That, of course, is a strawman!! Only for people who either can't or are afraid to try to explain it.
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 05:10 pm
bookmark
0 Replies
 
Steppenwolf
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 05:55 pm
Mortkat wrote:
Steppenwolf- Thanks for letting me know that you are incapable and unwilling to face up to the argument.

The term "strawman" is one I am with which I am familiar. It is usually used by those who cannot respond to the argument.

Very well. Deal with this "strawman"

Despite massive outpourings of millions and millions of dollars in Federal Aid to schools whose children are classified as being impoverished; notwithstanding the frantic efforts to grant even marginally prepared students places in Universities through Affirmative Action and even though businesses all over the country are urged to hire more African-Americans, the Asian Minority outclasses African-Americans in almost every scholastic area.

That, of course, is a strawman!! Only for people who either can't or are afraid to try to explain it.
0 Replies
 
Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 04:34 am
Tangent? You obviously missed the comment, with which I am in strong disagreement that Alito's placement on the USSC will result in that court becoming 5/9th Roman Catholic.

If some wish to play games like that, I have my numbers too.

If you read the exchange carefully, Steppenwolf, you might havew noted that I took Joe From Chicago's comment on 5/9th and took it to its obvious conclusion.
I don't think you understood that.

Very well. I will be content if Joe From Chicago withdraws what I feel is an absurd point. If it is not absurd, neither are my posts with regard to Affirmative Action etc.

It would appear that Joe from Chicago feels that there is an intentional loading by the Administration of Roman Catholics.

I am sure such is not the case!
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 08:14 am
I wonder what the esteemed Judge Posner would say on this matter?
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 09:03 am
BBB
Judge Richard Posner:
http://www.iconservatives.org.uk/richard_posner.htm

Ronald Coase - Coase's argument in three steps: Nothing works, Everything works, It all depends.

http://www.daviddfriedman.com/Academic/Coase_World.html
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 10:09 am
Mortkat wrote:
Tangent? You obviously missed the comment, with which I am in strong disagreement that Alito's placement on the USSC will result in that court becoming 5/9th Roman Catholic.

What's the matter, Mortkat, did you miss that episode of Sesame Street?

OK, here's someone to help set it out for you:

http://toughpigs.com/images/journalridiculejpcount.jpg

ONE Catholic! (Scalia)
TWO Catholics! (Thomas)
THREE Catholics! (Kennedy)
FOUR Catholics! (Roberts)
FIVE Catholics! (Alito)
FIVE! FIVE Catholics! Bwah ha ha ha!

Mortkat wrote:
If you read the exchange carefully, Steppenwolf, you might havew noted that I took Joe From Chicago's comment on 5/9th and took it to its obvious conclusion.

No you didn't. You created a strawman argument, just as Steppenwolf so cogently pointed out.

Mortkat wrote:
Very well. I will be content if Joe From Chicago withdraws what I feel is an absurd point. If it is not absurd, neither are my posts with regard to Affirmative Action etc.

I won't withdraw a point that I never made.

Mortkat wrote:
It would appear that Joe from Chicago feels that there is an intentional loading by the Administration of Roman Catholics.

Nope, never said that.
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 11:31 am
Biden: Alito Filibuster Seems Unlikely
Biden: Alito Filibuster Seems Unlikely
AP
11/6/05
WASHINGTON

A Democratic member of the Senate Judiciary Committee said Sunday he believes Samuel Alito will get an up-or-down vote on his Supreme Court bid. "We should commit," said Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., minimizing prospects of a Senate filibuster that would prevent final action on President Bush's choice to replace retiring Justice Sandra Day O'Connor.
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Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 01:08 pm
Thomas wrote:
. . . Anyway, the reason we are discussing Casey is to figure out if we think Alito is a good choice for the Supreme Court. You singled him out for stating that the provision furthers a legitimate state interest. But the majority agreed with him on this, so the intended thrust of my point was that singling Alito out was misleading and somewhat unfair.


Thomas:

I was NOT unfair to Alito nor did the majority agree with Alito.


Here's what I said:

Debra_Law wrote:
At the time Alito issued his lone dissent in Casey (in 1991) with respect to the "husband notification" provision, his reasons were set forth as follows:

Quote:
The Pennsylvania legislature could have rationally believed that some married women are initially inclined to obtain an abortion without their husbands' knowledge because of perceived problems -- such as economic constraints, future plans, or the husbands' previously expressed opposition -- that may be obviated by discussion prior to the abortion," wrote Alito. "The Pennsylvania Legislature presumably decided that the law on balance would be beneficial. We have no authority to overrule that legislative judgment even if we deem it 'unwise' or worse.



http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/31/alito.record/index.html

Alito applied (and I believe, misapplied) the rational basis test which simply asks whether the challenged statute (on its face or as applied) is rationally related to a LEGITIMATE state interest.

Is it truly a LEGITIMATE state interest to require wives to discuss matters concerning their own reproduction rights with their husbands? . . . .



The statute is the MEANS by which the legislature seeks to serve its interests. The particular statute at issue contained a mandatory spousal notification provision that required wives to notify their husbands of their intent to terminate a pregnancy BEFORE they obtained an abortion.

What LEGITIMATE state interest does the spousal notification provision serve?

Alito suggested that the spousal notification provision served the state interest in requiring the wife and husband to DISCUSS the wife's inclination to obtain an abortion PRIOR to obtaining an abortion in hopes that her inclination would be obviated by discussion prior to the abortion.

Does the state have a legitimate interest in compelling the wife to discuss the matter with her husband prior to the abortion? NO.

The majority did NOT agree that the state has a legitimate interest in compelling discussion prior to the abortion. Although the "ideal couple" would likely discuss termination of a pregnancy before abortion, the majority was very clear that the state does not have a legitimate interest in compelling a married couple to conform to state-imposed ideals and requiring the couple to talk to each other before the wife acts upon her decision.

Additionally, a woman (whether she is a wife or a single woman) is an individual with rights of reproductive autonomy and privacy separate from her status as a married or single woman. A state does not have a legitimate interest in protecting a man's interest in a woman's pregnancy by legally requiring a discussion to take place between the man and the woman with respect to the pregnancy. Given the complicated emotional ramifications of human relationships, it is the woman herself (not the state) who is in the best position to determine whether it is beneficial to notify the man of the existence of a pregnancy and to allow him to participate in the decision to continue or to terminate the pregnancy.

The Constitution protects women from unjustified (oppressive) state interference into their reproductive decisions even when that interference is enacted into law for the benefit of the man who impregnated her. If a husband has a constitutionally-protected interest in his wife's pregnancy, then the equal protection clause would require the state to also protect an unmarried man's interest in his girlfriend's pregnancy. For some men, that interest might be served by coercing the pregnant woman to continue a pregnancy or coercing the pregnant woman to terminate a pregnancy. Again, the blades of oppression have the ability to swing both ways if the constitution does not secure the right of the woman to be free of the oppression in the first place.

Alito misapplied the undue burden test; Alito was mistaken in his analysis that the spousal notification provision did not constitute an undue burden; Alito was mistaken in resorting to a rational basis test; and finally, Alito erred in his application of the rational basis test.

I'm not being unfair to Alito at all. He made serious errors in an opinion that he wrote fourteen years ago. I hope, with the benefit of fourteen years of judicial experience that he has gained since he wrote the Casey dissent, that he would not make the same errors in judgment today.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 02:15 pm
Steppenwolf wrote:
Debra_Law wrote:
Steppenwolf wrote:
I'm anti-Roe myself—I'd love to see it overturned.



Be careful what you wish for, Steppenwolf. The consequences could be dire for "our progeny" if Roe v. Wade was overturned because the blades of oppression swing both ways.

The primary purpose of the Constitution is to SECURE the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our progeny--for all the generations to come. It is possible that future generations will be faced with population control concerns. Would you want the government to have the power to force you to have an abortion to serve a legitimate state interest in population control?

Due process of law has a substantive component that protects individual liberty from arbitrary (unreasonable) government infringements or deprivations. As set forth in Supreme Court cases, "If the right of privacy means anything, it is the right of the individual, married or single, to be free from unwarranted governmental intrusion into matters so fundamentally affecting a person as the decision whether to bear or beget a child. . . .The Constitution protects individuals, men and women alike, from unjustified state interference. . . ."

If the Constitution is not interpreted to SECURE an individual's right to privacy, the state would not only have the power to prohibit abortions to serve the state interests, but it would also have the power to require abortions to serve the state interests. Be careful what you wish for and think long about the country you're handing down to your children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren. Their problems and issues will be different than ours, but a Constitution that secures liberty from oppressive laws must endure for all time.


Ah yes, I’ve argued with you at length about this before (A2K is too slow for me to find the thread). As you may or may not recall, I don’t believe that Roe and its progeny fit well into the existing corpus of privacy jurisprudence -- excluding the Roe line itself, of course. Excising that line of cases could be achieved with minimal damage to other rights. Nor will I even concede that privacy as a whole should be enshrined in “due process” anyway, although I don’t expect the wholesale abandonment of substantive DP any time soon.

Yes, I realize my opinions don't reflect "the law of the land" (existing precedent in Roe, Casey, etc.), as you’re fond of saying (if my recollection serves me). I'm also fully aware that DP presently has a substantive component under existing caselaw, however oxymoronic that branch of con law might be. My opinion is based upon what I perceive the law should be, as a matter of textual interpretation and policy, not about what the law is as of the present date. After all, this will ultimately be the argument before the Court should the subject arise again -- and it will. They are free to overrule their own precedent, even if the Casey court convinced itself otherwise with half-hearted arguments about reliance, etc.

Finally, I’ll take my chances with various slippery slopes on this one Smile.



At least we know where you stand. You are not interested in upholding a Constitution that secures individual liberty for ourselves and our progeny against unreasonable or arbitrary government intrusions into matters of individual autonomy and privacy. You are interested in obtaining the results you like. In order to accomplish what you desire, we must burn the Constitution and institute a "majority rules" policy and "minority and individual interests be damned" policy. So long as you and your progeny remain in the majority, all will be well in Steppenwolf world. Smile
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 03:03 pm
incomprehensible
Mortkat wrote:
Steppenwolf- Thanks for letting me know that you are incapable and unwilling to face up to the argument.

The term "strawman" is one I am with which I am familiar. It is usually used by those who cannot respond to the argument.

Very well. Deal with this "strawman"

Despite massive outpourings of millions and millions of dollars in Federal Aid to schools whose children are classified as being impoverished; notwithstanding the frantic efforts to grant even marginally prepared students places in Universities through Affirmative Action and even though businesses all over the country are urged to hire more African-Americans, the Asian Minority outclasses African-Americans in almost every scholastic area.

That, of course, is a strawman!! Only for people who either can't or are afraid to try to explain it.



Mortkat:

You sure do spew a lot of nonsense and whatever point you are trying to argue cannot be discerned from anything you have written. What is your point?

Are you arguing that Asian-Americans are superior human beings and that African-Americans are inferior human beings and no amount of education will ever change that alleged fact? Are you telling us that you're a racist? Are you being funny? Are you being sarcastic? What point are you trying to make with respect to Joe's legitimate observation that the Supreme Court is comprised largely of a homogeneous group of men?

No one here can agree or disagree with your arguments when we have no idea what your arguments are. Unless you make an effort to communicate in a manner that allows us to understand your position, your posts will be ignored. Perhaps, in your own mind, you may think you have "won" because people "are incapable and unwilling to face up to the argument," but, in reality, you haven't communicated in a manner that allows anyone to know what you're saying with any amount of clarity. Your posts are unintelligible.
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Nov, 2005 03:44 pm
Thomas Sowell is an economist. It's clear from the statement that Mortkat seemingly bases whatever argument he thinks he's making on, that Sowell has no understanding of evolution or knowledge of the human genome.
0 Replies
 
 

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