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Bush Picks Judge Samuel Alito for Supreme Court

 
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2006 07:27 am
Debra_Law wrote:
Ticomaya:

Obviously, you don't know what you're talking about.


No, based on your prior comments where you spoke about Roberts putting religion before law, and where you called him a coward for not writing a separate opinion, it's clear you don't know what you're talking about.

Quote:
Roberts joined Scalia's opinion in the death penalty case making it the majority opinion by a vote of 5-4.

Roberts joined Scalia's dissenting opinion in Gonzales v. Oregon. He did NOT join the majority opinion that carried 6 votes.

I guess Bush got what he wanted: someone who would follow Scalia's lead.


Is that unconstitutional?

Quote:
I was hoping that Roberts, as the CHIEF JUSTICE, would be his own man instead of someone who would hide behind someone else's words.


So if he and Scalia share the same views, Roberts is not his own man? Truthfully, you won't be happy unless he shares your views.

Quote:
I am WAITING for Roberts to actually lead the ROBERTS' COURT. I am waiting for Roberts to write an opinion that would signal that he actually follows the rule of law rather than his religious beliefs.


And until he writes a separate opinion, you believe him to be a coward? I say again: "ridiculous."

Quote:
I am not opposed to the death penalty. Case in point: Joseph Edward Duncan deserves the death penalty. The death penalty, however, is the ultimate punishment and should be used sparingly and only in cases where its application cannot be reasonably questioned. Given the facts and circumstances of the death penalty case, the imposition of the death penalty was highly questionable.


Okay, that's your opinion. Now, please point out where Scalia applied religious principles instead of the law.

Quote:
If you had read Scalia's commentary on the government as God's minister and wielding the sword (the death penalty) on God's behalf, maybe you might also have concerns whether it is actually the rule of law that is being applied--or the will of God as perceived by members of our highest court.


I failed to see Scalia talk about the government "wielding the sword" in the Sanders opinion.

Quote:
Thus far, Roberts has joined Scalia's opinions that conveniently adhere to their shared religious beliefs. Again, how convenient for them.


And they followed the law.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2006 07:43 am
Debra_Law wrote:
I was hoping that Roberts, as the CHIEF JUSTICE, would be his own man instead of someone who would hide behind someone else's words. I am WAITING for Roberts to actually lead the ROBERTS' COURT. I am waiting for Roberts to write an opinion that would signal that he actually follows the rule of law rather than his religious beliefs.

I don't understand what difference it makes to you whether someone is chief justice or associate justice. Isn't the distinction merely administrative?

Debra_Law wrote:
If you had read Scalia's commentary on the government as God's minister and wielding the sword (the death penalty) on God's behalf, maybe you might also have concerns whether it is actually the rule of law that is being applied--or the will of God as perceived by members of our highest court.

Am I correct in presuming that you referring to his article in First Things? That's a journal about religion in public life, and Scalia's article is titled God's Justice and Ours. If our correspondents wish to discuss this, it's probably a good idea for them to read Scalia's article unfiltered first.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2006 07:49 am
Thomas wrote:

Walter, now you have made the same mistake as George.


Indeed. Embarrassed
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2006 07:50 am
I have read a few Warren court cases -- a small and possibly biased sample I admit. My immediate impression was that justice Brennan broke new legal ground more often than chief justice Warren did, and that Warren joined quite a lot of Brennan's opinions. Is this immediate impression correct? And if so, Debra, would this convince you that Earl Warren was "not his own man"?
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2006 11:10 am
BBB
The important issue is Bush's Supreme Court appointments is not abortion, which was a smoke screen to divert attention away from their favor of increased presidential power. Bush's SC appointments have all been advocates of Unitary presidential-Executive Branch power. Bush is looking for their support when he is accused of breaking the law and violating the Constitution. Bush is successfully packing the court to protect himself.

Libertarians should be alarmed at Bush's goals.

BBB
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2006 11:15 am
Re: BBB
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
The important issue is Bush's Supreme Court appointments is not abortion, which was a smoke screen to divert attention away from their favor of increased presidential power. Bush's SC appointments have all been advocates of Unitary presidential-Executive Branch power. Bush is looking for their support when he is accused of breaking the law and violating the Constitution. Bush is successfully packing the court to protect himself.

BBB


Protect himself from what???

Your hysteria knows no bounds!
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2006 11:20 am
Re: BBB
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
The important issue is Bush's Supreme Court appointments is not abortion, which was a smoke screen to divert attention away from their favor of increased presidential power. Bush's SC appointments have all been advocates of Unitary presidential-Executive Branch power. Bush is looking for their support when he is accused of breaking the law and violating the Constitution. Bush is successfully packing the court to protect himself.

Libertarians should be alarmed at Bush's goals.

BBB


You agree with Debra that he's going to be running for Dictator soon?
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2006 11:23 am
Bumble Bee Boogie wrote:
The important issue is Bush's Supreme Court appointments is not abortion, which was a smoke screen to divert attention away from their favor of increased presidential power. Bush's SC appointments have all been advocates of Unitary presidential-Executive Branch power. Bush is looking for their support when he is accused of breaking the law and violating the Constitution. Bush is successfully packing the court to protect himself.

Libertarians should be alarmed at Bush's goals.

BBB

While I agree that Bush's attempts to expand the executive's powers is troubling for libertarians, the rest of your post contains two serious misconceptions.

1) The great interest in the nominees' stands on abortion came mostly from liberal supporters of Roe vs. Wade. These including pretty much all Democratic senators and a few Republican ones. The Democrats at least had no interest in detracting from Bush's expansion of presidential powers. Nice conspiracy theory though.

2) You appear to misremember the definition of court packing. A president is said to pack the court when his appointment of a new judge increases the total number of justices. Abraham Lincoln packed the Supreme Court when he appointed Steven Field to it. Franklin D. Roosevelt attempted to pack the court when it struck down much of the New Deal legislation that he championed for some reason. But Bush never packed the Supreme Court. When a justice retires and you appoint someone you for his seat, that's not court packing.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2006 11:31 am
Thomas
Thomas, I knew exactly what I intended when I used the word "pack" and did not disremember anything. I know what Roosevelt's court packing attempt was about and the method he chose. He didn't have the opportunity to replace justices so he wanted to increase the numbers to achieve his goal. The goal was to get a Court majority to agree with his agenda. The Surpreme Court disagreed with his actions.

Bush has the same goal. The difference is that he had open court seats to fill to achieve his majority goals. Different circumstances, but same goal results.

Conservatives have been working on this goal for forty years via The Federalist Society. If Libertarians don't wake up they may succeed.

The Democrats who were focusing on the abortion issue made a big mistake. The Media's similar focus on abortion didn't help either.

BBB
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2006 11:39 am
I believe BBB is confusing virtue with the mere absence of opportunity for sin.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2006 11:40 am
BBB -- The problem is that "court packing" describes the method, not the intention. Words do have meanings, and you don't get to reinvent those meanings for rhetorical effect. The appointment of justices who are friendly to ones agenda does not constitute court packing.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2006 11:42 am
George
georgeob1 wrote:
I believe BBB is confusing virtue with the mere absence of opportunity for sin.


I've always admired the skill of devious moralists. I've always despied the idiots who believe them.

BBB :wink:
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georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2006 11:44 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Thomas wrote:

Walter, now you have made the same mistake as George.


Indeed. Embarrassed


Keep this up Walter and you will soon be harranging us about evil Europeans!
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2006 11:51 am
Thomas
Thomas, The use of Court Packing language is common today with regard to Bush's attempt at it. It appears you prefer to get into a snit over a passe use of a word than address the real issue of Unitary Executive Branch. Be my guest, but I'm not impressed. ---BBB
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2006 11:56 am
Re: Thomas
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Thomas, The use of Court Packing language is common today with regard to Bush's attempt at it. It appears you prefer to get into a snit over a passe use of a word than address the real issue of Unitary Executive Bra


Yes, it's a phrase commonly misused by the anti-Bush crowd for its pejorative negative effect.

It remains a misuse of the term.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2006 11:57 am
Re: Thomas
Ticomaya wrote:
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Thomas, The use of Court Packing language is common today with regard to Bush's attempt at it. It appears you prefer to get into a snit over a passe use of a word than address the real issue of Unitary Executive Bra


Yes, it's a phrase commonly misused by the anti-Bush crowd for its pejorative negative effect.

It remains a misuse of the term.


Darwin was right. Words do evolve.

BBB
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2006 12:04 pm
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
The use of Court Packing language is common today with regard to Bush's attempt at it. It appears you prefer to get into a snit over a passe use of a word than address the real issue of Unitary Executive Branch, be my guest, but Im not impressed. ---BBB

A lie doesn't stop being a lie just because the liar is telling it in boldface, or because many people tell it. It is just plain dishonest to use the word 'court packing' in the way you do, and even your own source explicitly states this. ("However, this use of the term is a misuse with political value. ") You are playing a game of "heads my lie sticks, tails I'll put down my opponent for calling me on it". I am not impressed either. And that's all I have to say about your agitprop terminology.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2006 12:10 pm
Re: Thomas
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Ticomaya wrote:
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
Thomas, The use of Court Packing language is common today with regard to Bush's attempt at it. It appears you prefer to get into a snit over a passe use of a word than address the real issue of Unitary Executive Bra


Yes, it's a phrase commonly misused by the anti-Bush crowd for its pejorative negative effect.

It remains a misuse of the term.


Darwin was right. Words do evolve.

BBB


Of course that is similar to the game of the leftists when they raise the non-issue of their concern with a "Unitary Executive Branch." What's wrong with a unitary Executive? After all, nobody is advocating a "Unitary Government," even if Dems like you & Debra think Bush is trying to become a dictator.

The concept of the Unitary Executive says nothing about unchecked executive power, no matter how breathlessly you try to insist it's the "real issue." That's what the executive branch is ... the President is in charge of the Executive Branch -- not Congress. You disagree?
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2006 12:16 pm
Thomas
Thomas wrote:
BumbleBeeBoogie wrote:
The use of Court Packing language is common today with regard to Bush's attempt at it. It appears you prefer to get into a snit over a passe use of a word than address the real issue of Unitary Executive Branch, be my guest, but Im not impressed. ---BBB

A lie doesn't stop being a lie just because the liar is telling it in boldface, or because many people tell it. It is just plain dishonest to use the word 'court packing' in the way you do, and even your own source explicitly states this. ("However, this use of the term is a misuse with political value. ") You are playing a game of "heads my lie sticks, tails I'll put down my opponent for calling me on it". I am not impressed either. And that's all I have to say about your agitprop terminology.


Thomas, Would you be as exersized if I had used the term "fill" instead of "Pack"? Or is it a meaningless diversion?

BBB
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jan, 2006 12:24 pm
'Fill' is better because it does not carry the connotations of constitutional illegitimacy that 'pack' does. But what's wrong with 'appoint xxx justices to', where xxx is an adjective describing what kind of justices they are?
0 Replies
 
 

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