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Bush Picks Judge Samuel Alito for Supreme Court

 
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 01:05 am
blatham wrote:
Dworkin wrote:
Overruling Roe would suddenly make abortion again an urgent national political issue for many millions of women who have come to take for granted the right that women have enjoyed for two generations and who now vote to express their views on other issues, often for Republicans. Overruling Roe would not be helpful to the national Republican Party.


CNN/Gallop polling since 1996 shows a stable preference for the maintenance of access to abortion.

There is another way of viewing this, and Dworkin is careful not to discuss it. If he is right about overturning Roe, and Pollingreport is right about public opinion on abortion, then overturning it will not actually have the terrible consequences that pro-choice activists say it would. Instead, pro-choice majorities in the individual states would elect legislators that enact abortion rights. This would refute not just the pro-lifer's hope of using constitutional law to deny women abortions, but also the pro-choicer's anxieties festering from rhetoric like Edward Kennedy's epithet: "In Robert Bork's America, women would be forced into black alley abortions [...]" (Then again, Ronald Dworkin could be wrong.)

I agree this could get very interesting.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 02:16 am
Thomas wrote:
Debra_Law wrote:
Alito applied (and I believe, misapplied) the rational basis test which simply asks whether the challenged statute (on its face or as applied) is rationally related to a LEGITIMATE state interest.


I don't have an opinion yet on whether Alito misapplied the rational basis test in his dissent. But I would like to point out that this was not the issue on which he dissented with the majority. He dissented on something different, on whether the mandatory notification of her husband placed an 'undue burden' on the woman. Consequently, he also dissented with the majority on how to test its constitutionality. While the majority found an undue burden and accordingly tested with heightened scrutiny, Alito found no undue burden and merely applied a rational basis test.

On page 44 of the document Debra pointed to, judge Alito wrote:
Although the majority and I apply different prongs of this two-part test, I see no indication that we disagree concerning the conclusion produced when either prong is applied to Section 3209. If the majority is correct that Section 3209 must satisfy heightened scrutiny, I agree that its constitutionality is doubtful. Similarly, I do not interpret the majority opinion to mean that Section 3209 cannot satisfy the rational relationship test. Indeed, the majority acknowledges that Section 3209 serves a "legitimate" interest. See majority slip op. typescript at 74, 77. Thus, my major disagreement with the majority concerns the question whether Section 3209 imposes an "undue burden", and I will therefore turn to that question.


... and sure enough, on crosschecking with the lower left corner of page 35, we find that the majority wrote:
If the state's alleged interest in the integrity of the marriage refers to the state's interest in keeping married individuals together in wedlock, we agree that this is a legitimate state interest. It is not an interest that the Supreme Court has recognized as a compelling one, however.


For all I can say at this point, you may well be right and Alito may indeed have applied the rational basis test lamely. But it seems that on this point, the majority of the appeals court agreed with Alito and disagreed with you.



No one can argue that the state has a legitimate interest in the welfare of its residents. Under the auspices of that broadly-stated legitimate interest, it is theoretically possible for the state legislature to enact any statute that it wants to enact that infringes on liberty interests (other than fundamental liberty interests) so long as the statute is somehow rationally related to serving the state's legitimate interest in the welfare of its citizens. But we know that's not true. The rational basis test is not a toothless test.

It is not sufficient to identify some broad, generalized state interest (e.g., legitimate interest in the economy, legitimate interest in crime-prevention, legitimate interest in marital integrity, etc.) and then determine whether the challenged statute is rationally related to that BROAD, GENERAL interest. We must avoid broad generalities and identify the specific interest that the statute was designed to address.

Acknowledging that the state has a legitimate interest in the "integrity of marriages" is merely making a broad general statement. You have to look at the facts and circumstances to identify the specific state interest that the statute seeks to serve. First, how do you define "marital integrity?" Is that when wives and husbands have the "integrity" to discuss the important issues that arise in their lives?

For at least 95 percent of the married women seeking an abortion, the husband notification provision of the statute was completely unnecessary. The vast majority of husbands and wives contemplating the termination of a pregnancy would discuss the issue and decide the matter privately between themselves whether the statute existed or not. It is possible that many husbands coerce their wives into having abortions that they don't want--but we're not concerned with the "integrity" of those marital decisions.

For the remaining 5 percent of married women seeking an abortion where husband notification was an issue, the state provided them with four exceptions to the notification requirement. The state was not concerned with the integrity of marriages wherein the wife believed someone other than her husband was the father, wherein the wife couldn't locate her husband, wherein the pregnancy was the result of marital rape if the rape was reported to the authorities, or wherein the wife believed that notifying her husband would be dangerous to her physical well-being. Those women could obtain abortions without notifying their husbands.

That probably left only 1 percent of all married women seeking abortions for whom the husband notification provision was even relevant. And think about it: The state is NOT concerned about the integrity of marriages wherein the wife honestly believes someone other than her husband is the father; but the state IS concerned about the integrity of marriages wherein the wife doesn't know for sure if her husband is the father? The state is NOT concerned about the integrity of marriages wherein the husband rapes the wife if the wife reports the rape to authorities; but the state IS concerned about the integrity of marriages wherein the husband rapes the wife but the wife does not report the rape to authorities? The state is NOT concerned about the integrity of marriages where the wife has reason to fear her husband will physically harm her; but the state IS concerned about the integrity of marriages where the wife has reason to fear her husband will emotionally harm her?

When looking at the facts and circumstances, the state's generalized interest in marital integrity (however you define "integrity") was just a pretext. The state's true interest in enacting the "husband notification" provision was to give the husband notice and an opportunity to express his opposition and to persuade or coerce (emotionally or financially) his wife into continuing a pregnancy that she would otherwise terminate. The state is NOT protecting the INTEGRITY of marriages; the state is protecting the husband's ostensible right to notice in a handful of cases and effectively veto the wife's decision.

The state has no LEGITIMATE interest in forcing wives to notify their husbands with respect to any issue--especially in a marital situation where there is no judge to act as mediator to ensure fairness and the husband can overreach and exert undue influence in an emotionally-charged situation--especially in a marital situation when the wife herself in the best position to evaluate the integrity or health of her own marriage and to determine whether discussing the issue with her husband would be beneficial.

See majority opinion at page 35:

Quote:
We turn first to marital integrity. It is not entirely clear what the Commonwealth means when it speaks of the integrity of a marriage. If the interest is in honesty and full disclosure between married individuals, Hodgson indicates that this interest does not rise to the level of a legitimate state interest, much less a compelling one. In the course of striking down Minnesota's two--parent notice requirement without a judicial bypass, Justice Stevens there wrote for a majority of the court:

The State does not rely primarily on the
best interests of the minor in defending this
statute. Rather, it argues that, in the ideal
family, the minor should make her decision
only after consultation with both parents
who should naturally be concerned with the
child's welfare and that the State has an interest
in protecting the independent right of
the parents "to determine and strive for what
they believe to be best for their children."
Minn.Br. [**89] 26. Neither of these reasons
can justify the two--parent notification
requirement. The second parent may well
have an interest in the minor's abortion decision,
making full communication among all
members of a family desirable in some cases,
but such communication may not be decreed
by the State. The State has no more interest
in requiring all family members to talk with
one another than it has in requiring certain of
them to live together. . . . [A] state interest in
standardizing its children and adults, making
the "private realm of family life" conform to
some state--designed ideal, is not a legitimate
state interest at all.


Hodgson, 110 S. Ct. at 2946.

If the state's alleged interest in the integrity of the marriage refers to the state's interest in keeping married individuals together in wedlock, we agree that this is a legitimate state interest. It is not an interest that the
Supreme Court has recognized as a compelling one, however. Moreover, even if we were to assume that it does constitute a compelling state interest, we could not conclude conclude that the Commonwealth has carried its burden of demonstrating that § 3209 is narrowly tailored to promote [**90] that interest. As we have noted, the only effect of § 3209 is to require notice in those instances in which the wife would not otherwise share with her husband the fact of the pregnancy and her intention to abort. In such situations, an across--the--board requirement of coerced disclosure is an altogether arbitrary approach to a difficult and complex problem of human relations. Nothing in this record suggests that replacing the wife's judgment regarding disclosure with such an arbitrary rule will save more marriages than it destroys.


Claiming that the state has a broad, generalized legitimate interest in marital integrity is merely starting point, not the ending point. If you further define marital integrity to mean "keeping married persons together in wedlock," a completely ARBITRARY approach (as set forth in the husband notification provision) is NOT rationally related to a legitimate state interest the same as it is NOT narrowly-tailored to serve a compelling state interest. Ideally, a husband and wife will discuss the issue of abortion before the wife terminates her pregnancy (and most do), but it is not a LEGITIMATE state interest for the state to require husbands and wives to conform to the state ideal of marital integrity.


Alito wrote:

Quote:
The Pennsylvania legislature could have rationally believed that some married women are initially inclined to obtain an abortion without their husbands' knowledge because of perceived problems -- such as economic constraints, future plans, or the husbands' previously expressed opposition ---- that may be obviated by discussion prior to the abortion. In addition, the legislature could have reasonably concluded that Section 3209 would lead to such discussion and thereby properly further a husband's interests in the fetus in a sufficient percentage of the affected cases to justify enactment of this measure. Although the plaintiffs and supporting amici argue that Section 3209 will do little if any good and will produce appreciable adverse effects, the Pennsylvania legislature presumably decided that the law on balance would be beneficial. We have no authority to overrule that legislative judgment even if we deem it "unwise" or worse.



Alito's analysis is circular and disingenuous: The state has a legitimate interest in marital integrity--keeping married persons together in wedlock (even though the state can't FORCE them to stay together in wedlock and can't FORCE them to talk to each other); the state has other legitimate interests; and the state's legitimate interests are served by the husband notification provision because the wife's desire to obtain an abortion without her husband's knowledge can be obviated if she discusses the matter with her husband. But, the Supreme Court has held that, "The State has no more interest in requiring all family members to talk with one another than it has in requiring certain of them to live together." The entire purpose of the spousal notification provision, regardless of what generalized or broad state interest it serves, is to compel the spouses to talk to each other when the Supreme Court has ruled that the State has no LEGITIMATE interest in requiring family members to talk to one another.

Alito presented an unsophisticated (juvenile-like), superficial glance at the surface of the case based on generalities without reaching the true specifics and merits of the facial challenge--and even at that, his analysis was seriously flawed, circular, disingenuous, and contrary to Supreme Court precedent. Even if the state legislature determined it was beneficial for wives to notify their husbands when they intend to terminate a pregnancy so that the notification would lead to discussion, a state does not have a LEGITIMATE interest in compelling husbands and wives to discuss the abortion issue through the operation of laws and the statute was UNCONSTITUTIONAL. It was Alito's DUTY to declare the statute unconstitutional.



With respect to Judge Alito's "undue burden" disagreement with the majority, Alito essentially took the position that this was a challenge to the statute on its face rather than as applied--therefore, the fact that the notification provision might cause SOME married women to forego an abortion rather than notify their spouses was of no concern to the court. He relied on his erroneous interpretations of Justice O'Connor's previous decisions. He was set straight, (hopefully), when the Court wrote the following:


Quote:
Respondents attempt to avoid the conclusion that 3209 is invalid by pointing out that it imposes almost no burden at all for the vast majority of women seeking abortions. They begin by noting that only about 20 percent of the women who obtain abortions are married. They then note that, of these women, about 95 percent notify their husbands of their own volition. Thus, respondents argue, the effects of 3209 are felt by only one percent of the women who obtain abortions. Respondents argue that, since some of these women will be able to notify their husbands without adverse consequences or will qualify for one of the exceptions, the statute affects fewer than one percent of women seeking abortions. For this reason, it is asserted, the statute cannot be invalid on its face. See Brief for Respondents 83-86. We disagree with respondents' basic method of analysis.

The analysis does not end with the one percent of women upon whom the statute operates; it begins there. Legislation is measured for consistency with the Constitution by its impact on those whose conduct it affects. For example, we would not say that a law which requires a newspaper to print a candidate's reply to an unfavorable editorial is valid on its face because most newspapers would adopt the policy even absent the law. See Miami Herald Publishing Co. v. Tornillo, 418 U.S. 241 (1974). The proper focus of constitutional inquiry is the group for whom the law is a restriction, not the group for whom the law is irrelevant.

Respondents' argument itself gives implicit recognition to this principle at one of its critical points. Respondents speak of the one percent of women seeking abortions who are married and would choose not to notify their husbands of their plans. By selecting as the controlling class women [505 U.S. 833, 895] who wish to obtain abortions, rather than all women or all pregnant women, respondents, in effect, concede that 3209 must be judged by reference to those for whom it is an actual, rather than an irrelevant, restriction. Of course, as we have said, 3209's real target is narrower even than the class of women seeking abortions identified by the State: it is married women seeking abortions who do not wish to notify their husbands of their intentions and who do not qualify for one of the statutory exceptions to the notice requirement. The unfortunate yet persisting conditions we document above will mean that, in a large fraction of the cases in which 3209 is relevant, it will operate as a substantial obstacle to a woman's choice to undergo an abortion. It is an undue burden, and therefore invalid.

This conclusion is in no way inconsistent with our decisions upholding parental notification or consent requirements. See, e.g., Akron II, 497 U.S., at 510 -519; Bellotti v. Baird, 443 U.S. 622 (1979) (Bellotti II); Planned Parenthood of Central Mo. v. Danforth, 428 U.S., at 74 . Those enactments, and our judgment that they are constitutional, are based on the quite reasonable assumption that minors will benefit from consultation with their parents and that children will often not realize that their parents have their best interests at heart. We cannot adopt a parallel assumption about adult women.

We recognize that a husband has a deep and proper concern and interest . . . in his wife's pregnancy and in the growth and development of the fetus she is carrying. Danforth, supra, at 69. With regard to the children he has fathered and raised, the Court has recognized his "cognizable and substantial" interest in their custody. Stanley v. Illinois, 405 U.S. 645, 651 -652 (1972); see also Quilloin v. Walcott, 434 U.S. 246 (1978); Caban v. Mohammed, 441 U.S. 380 (1979); Lehr v. Robertson, 463 U.S. 248 (1983). If this case concerned a State's ability to require the mother to notify the father before taking some action with respect to a living [505 U.S. 833, 896] child raised by both, therefore, it would be reasonable to conclude, as a general matter, that the father's interest in the welfare of the child and the mother's interest are equal.

Before birth, however, the issue takes on a very different cast. It is an inescapable biological fact that state regulation with respect to the child a woman is carrying will have a far greater impact on the mother's liberty than on the father's. The effect of state regulation on a woman's protected liberty is doubly deserving of scrutiny in such a case, as the State has touched not only upon the private sphere of the family, but upon the very bodily integrity of the pregnant woman. Cf. Cruzan v. Director, Mo. Dept. of Health, 497 U.S., at 281 . The Court has held that, when the wife and the husband disagree on this decision, the view of only one of the two marriage partners can prevail. Inasmuch as it is the woman who physically bears the child and who is the more directly and immediately affected by the pregnancy, as between the two, the balance weighs in her favor. Danforth, supra, at 71. This conclusion rests upon the basic nature of marriage and the nature of our Constitution: [T]he marital couple is not an independent entity with a mind and heart of its own, but an association of two individuals, each with a separate intellectual and emotional makeup. If the right of privacy means anything, it is the right of the individual, married or single, to be free from unwarranted governmental intrusion into matters so fundamentally affecting a person as the decision whether to bear or beget a child. Eisenstadt v. Baird, 405 U.S., at 453 (emphasis in original). The Constitution protects individuals, men and women alike, from unjustified state interference, even when that interference is enacted into law for the benefit of their spouses.

There was a time, not so long ago, when a different understanding of the family and of the Constitution prevailed. In Bradwell v. State, 16 Wall. 130 (1873), three Members of this [505 U.S. 833, 897] Court reaffirmed the common law principle that a woman had no legal existence separate from her husband, who was regarded as her head and representative in the social state; and, notwithstanding some recent modifications of this civil status, many of the special rules of law flowing from and dependent upon this cardinal principle still exist in full force in most States. Id., at 141 (Bradley, J., joined by Swayne and Field, JJ., concurring in judgment). Only one generation has passed since this Court observed that "woman is still regarded as the center of home and family life," with attendant "special responsibilities" that precluded full and independent legal status under the Constitution. Hoyt v. Florida, 368 U.S. 57, 62 (1961). These views, of course, are no longer consistent with our understanding of the family, the individual, or the Constitution.

In keeping with our rejection of the common law understanding of a woman's role within the family, the Court held in Danforth that the Constitution does not permit a State to require a married woman to obtain her husband's consent before undergoing an abortion. 428 U.S., at 69 . The principles that guided the Court in Danforth should be our guides today. For the great many women who are victims of abuse inflicted by their husbands, or whose children are the victims of such abuse, a spousal notice requirement enables the husband to wield an effective veto over his wife's decision. Whether the prospect of notification itself deters such women from seeking abortions, or whether the husband, through physical force or psychological pressure or economic coercion, prevents his wife from obtaining an abortion until it is too late, the notice requirement will often be tantamount to the veto found unconstitutional in Danforth. The women most affected by this law - those who most reasonably fear the consequences of notifying their husbands that they are pregnant - are in the gravest danger. [505 U.S. 833, 898]



http://laws.findlaw.com/us/505/833.html


I believe that Judge Alito wrote a very bad opinion. I have no doubt that Judge Alito believed that he was right at the time, but that was fourteen years ago. Hopefully, he has gained a tremendous amount of experience and knowledge during his many years on the bench since he wrote his Casey dissent. Hopefully, we can chalk it up to inexperience and an underdeveloped knowledge of constitutional law and interpretation of applicable precedents. I haven't read all of his opinions yet, but I've read a couple of recent opinions that I thought were excellent. I am cautiously optimistic. I'm going to continue to read and share my thoughts. Smile
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 03:06 am
Steppenwolf wrote:
I'm anti-Roe myself—I'd love to see it overturned.



Be careful what you wish for, Steppenwolf. The consequences could be dire for "our progeny" if Roe v. Wade was overturned because the blades of oppression swing both ways.

The primary purpose of the Constitution is to SECURE the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our progeny--for all the generations to come. It is possible that future generations will be faced with population control concerns. Would you want the government to have the power to force you to have an abortion to serve a legitimate state interest in population control?

Due process of law has a substantive component that protects individual liberty from arbitrary (unreasonable) government infringements or deprivations. As set forth in Supreme Court cases, "If the right of privacy means anything, it is the right of the individual, married or single, to be free from unwarranted governmental intrusion into matters so fundamentally affecting a person as the decision whether to bear or beget a child. . . .The Constitution protects individuals, men and women alike, from unjustified state interference. . . ."

If the Constitution is not interpreted to SECURE an individual's right to privacy, the state would not only have the power to prohibit abortions to serve the state interests, but it would also have the power to require abortions to serve the state interests. Be careful what you wish for and think long about the country you're handing down to your children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren. Their problems and issues will be different than ours, but a Constitution that secures liberty from oppressive laws must endure for all time.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 06:48 am
Debra_Law wrote:
Claiming that the state has a broad, generalized legitimate interest in marital integrity is merely starting point, not the ending point. If you further define marital integrity to mean "keeping married persons together in wedlock," a completely ARBITRARY approach (as set forth in the husband notification provision) is NOT rationally related to a legitimate state interest the same as it is NOT narrowly-tailored to serve a compelling state interest. Ideally, a husband and wife will discuss the issue of abortion before the wife terminates her pregnancy (and most do), but it is not a LEGITIMATE state interest for the state to require husbands and wives to conform to the state ideal of marital integrity.

Fair enough. I certainly agree that the mandatory notification of the husband was stupid policy -- as you say, it makes no difference in 99% of all cases, and it isn't clear that it ought to make a difference for the remaining percent of pregnant women. Alas, stupidity by itself is still constitutional, and I haven't decided yet what my opinion is about the provision's constitutionality. But you do make a persuasive case that the provision fails the rational basis test. Anyway, the reason we are discussing Casey is to figure out if we think Alito is a good choice for the Supreme Court. You singled him out for stating that the provision furthers a legitimate state interest. But the majority agreed with him on this, so the intended thrust of my point was that singling Alito out was misleading and somewhat unfair.

Debra_Law wrote:
I'm going to continue to read and share my thoughts. Smile

I'm looking forward to it. Your thoughts are always interesting for me to read, whether I agree with them or not.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 07:25 am
I don't believe for a moment, Alito will just step in and *poof* Roe v. Wade gets annulled. Their has to be a case and it has to change precedent. This seems like a rather poor topic to base our judgement on a candidate to the supreme court. It's not a legislative branch.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 08:51 am
DebraLaw
DebraLaw, you have strong integrity and are an information gem for A2K. You are one of the people responsible for A2K's success.

Thanks!

BBB
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 09:07 am
Ronald Dworkin wrote:
Overruling Roe would not be helpful to the national Republican Party.

I'll go even further than that: overruling Roe would be disastrous for the Republican Party.

In much the same way that the US embargo is the best thing that ever happened to the Castro regime in Cuba, the decision in Roe has turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to the modern GOP. With Roe, the Republicans have an issue that they can run on forever: it is largely immune to legislative attack, so the GOP can't be blamed if it doesn't do anything to change it; it's an issue that has a high emotive value but with a low practical impact; and it permits the Republicans to run against the judiciary, which can't defend itself very well, rather than against the Democrats. For the GOP, Roe has been a godsend. It's no coincidence that the past three Republican presidents have each pledged to fight against Roe but have done precisely nothing to get rid of it.

It is, therefore, long past time for Democrats to reevaluate their support for Roe. Ideally, the Roberts court should overrule Roe and send the issue of abortion back to the states, where an energized pro-choice constituency would force the legislatures to enact laws respecting women's right to choose. We would then see how quickly the abortion issue disappears from the national political scene (after the defeat of the inevitable anti-abortion constitutional amendment), and we could start focusing on some real problems.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 12:13 pm
joefromchicago wrote:
It is, therefore, long past time for Democrats to reevaluate their support for Roe. Ideally, the Roberts court should overrule Roe and send the issue of abortion back to the states, where an energized pro-choice constituency would force the legislatures to enact laws respecting women's right to choose. We would then see how quickly the abortion issue disappears from the national political scene (after the defeat of the inevitable anti-abortion constitutional amendment), and we could start focusing on some real problems.

It seems you and I agree on something for a change. It even seems as though you'd like that scenario, as do I. I expect to see water flow uphill any minute now.
0 Replies
 
Steppenwolf
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 12:21 pm
Debra_Law wrote:
Steppenwolf wrote:



Be careful what you wish for, Steppenwolf. The consequences could be dire for "our progeny" if Roe v. Wade was overturned because the blades of oppression swing both ways.

The primary purpose of the Constitution is to SECURE the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our progeny--for all the generations to come. It is possible that future generations will be faced with population control concerns. Would you want the government to have the power to force you to have an abortion to serve a legitimate state interest in population control?

Due process of law has a substantive component that protects individual liberty from arbitrary (unreasonable) government infringements or deprivations. As set forth in Supreme Court cases, "If the right of privacy means anything, it is the right of the individual, married or single, to be free from unwarranted governmental intrusion into matters so fundamentally affecting a person as the decision whether to bear or beget a child. . . .The Constitution protects individuals, men and women alike, from unjustified state interference. . . ."

If the Constitution is not interpreted to SECURE an individual's right to privacy, the state would not only have the power to prohibit abortions to serve the state interests, but it would also have the power to require abortions to serve the state interests. Be careful what you wish for and think long about the country you're handing down to your children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren. Their problems and issues will be different than ours, but a Constitution that secures liberty from oppressive laws must endure for all time.


Ah yes, I've argued with you at length about this before (A2K is too slow for me to find the thread). As you may or may not recall, I don't believe that Roe and its progeny fit well into the existing corpus of privacy jurisprudence -- excluding the Roe line itself, of course. Excising that line of cases could be achieved with minimal damage to other rights. Nor will I even concede that privacy as a whole should be enshrined in "due process" anyway, although I don't expect the wholesale abandonment of substantive DP any time soon.

Yes, I realize my opinions don't reflect "the law of the land" (existing precedent in Roe, Casey, etc.), as you're fond of saying (if my recollection serves me). I'm also fully aware that DP presently has a substantive component under existing caselaw, however oxymoronic that branch of con law might be. My opinion is based upon what I perceive the law should be, as a matter of textual interpretation and policy, not about what the law is as of the present date. After all, this will ultimately be the argument before the Court should the subject arise again -- and it will. They are free to overrule their own precedent, even if the Casey court convinced itself otherwise with half-hearted arguments about reliance, etc.

Finally, I'll take my chances with various slippery slopes on this one Smile.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 12:21 pm
Hmm, I agree as well, but living in Texas makes it a mite worrisome for the women I know; there is no guarantee that anti-abortion constitutional amendments would be defeated here.

Though the massive outpouring of women from those states, to more Liberal ones, may end up being quite destructive in the long run, now that I think about it; I know that my gf and I would certainly move, rather than live in such a place.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 12:41 pm
Maybe we should go back to the good old days when we voted with out feet.

Let the States decide, then the citizens can decide wether or not to stay there.

Abortion should not be the only issue on the table when deciding on a US Supreme Court Justice.

The fact that Alito seems to be a "big govt" supporter does not sit well. However, i will wait to learn more before I decide.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Nov, 2005 04:28 pm
McGentrix wrote:
I don't believe for a moment, Alito will just step in and *poof* Roe v. Wade gets annulled. Their has to be a case and it has to change precedent. This seems like a rather poor topic to base our judgement on a candidate to the supreme court. It's not a legislative branch.


I'm more concerned with the first amendment (sep of church and state). Scalia and "Scalito" seem to challenge the very basis of the first amendment.
0 Replies
 
Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2005 12:26 am
I am interested in the comment about the Court being 5/9th Roman Catholic if Alito was nominated. I do agree but I think that we are not pressing hard enough in that area.

We really should apportion all jobs, positions, responsiblities so that they would reflect our nation's diversity.

If the US has 13 or 14% African-Americans, then there should no no less than 13 or 14% African-Americans in each area of endavor. If African-Americans are oversubscribed in some activity( like Professional Basketball and Football) the African-Americans in those areas should be allowed to remain but there should be others replaced from different groups. I do now know how many Asians are in Basketball or Football but I am sure that Asians are underrepresented. Why?

At this time, there appear to be more females with law degrees than males and more males who have degrees in Engineering. This kind of imbalance must be rectified immediately.

Statistical and proportional balance should be our goal. We must settle for no less.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2005 09:04 am
Thomas wrote:
It seems you and I agree on something for a change. It even seems as though you'd like that scenario, as do I. I expect to see water flow uphill any minute now.

I wouldn't be expecting too many miraculous events if I were you. Although we both may want to see Roe overturned, I doubt that we share the same reasons for desiring that result. You most likely want Roe overturned because you view it as bad law. I want it overturned because it's bad politics.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2005 09:05 am
Mortkat wrote:
We really should apportion all jobs, positions, responsiblities so that they would reflect our nation's diversity.

Laughing Mortkat made a funny!
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2005 12:19 pm
joefromchicago wrote:
You most likely want Roe overturned because you view it as bad law. I want it overturned because it's bad politics.

The two are not mutually exclusive.
0 Replies
 
Steppenwolf
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2005 01:02 pm
FYI: Recent poll on support for Alito compared to past nominees, and poll on Roe. A plurality -- slightly below the majority -- supports Alito. The majority supports Roe, but a plurality is indifferent to Alito's Casey opinion, with slightly more people supporting it than not supporting it. And if my convoluted explanation of the poll makes any sense to you, you get a gold star.

ABC-WaPo Poll
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2005 03:55 pm
Thomas wrote:
joefromchicago wrote:
You most likely want Roe overturned because you view it as bad law. I want it overturned because it's bad politics.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

For me they are: I don't think Roe is bad law.
0 Replies
 
Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Nov, 2005 06:35 pm
Joe From Chicago says I made a funny. I did not make a funny. I wrote from the idea by Thomas Sowell which says that- Even if all races all over the globe have identical innate potential, tangible and social results do not depend upon abstract potential but on developed capabilities. The mere fact that different people and cultures have evolved in radically different geographical settings is alone enough to make similarity of skills virtually impossible.

Although Joe from Chicago may think that is a funny, it is not. It may that he really does not understand what it means.
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 09:26 am
Mortkat wrote:
Joe From Chicago says I made a funny. I did not make a funny.

Wait a minute. So when you wrote "We really should apportion all jobs, positions, responsiblities so that they would reflect our nation's diversity," you were being serious?
0 Replies
 
 

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