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Bush Picks Judge Samuel Alito for Supreme Court

 
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 31 Oct, 2005 04:24 pm
CoastalRat wrote:
Thanks Joe. That clarified things for me. Sorry if I seemed a bit dense at your reasons for the points you made.

No problem. Always happy to offer some clarification.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 01:11 am
joefromchicago wrote:
(3) With the appointment of Alito the court will have a Roman Catholic majority (Roberts, Scalia, Thomas, Kennedy, Alito). That's rather odd, to put it mildly. I certainly don't adhere to the tired notion that Catholics can't be trusted because they serve a foreign master, but I do think that the court should represent a broader cross-section of the American population. Perhaps this is a welcome change from all the Episcopalians and Presbyterians who have populated the bench in the past. But the US isn't 5/9ths Catholic, so should we have a supreme court that is?


If we pack the Supreme Court with Catholics, we can disregard the Constitution and obtain rulings based on the teachings of St. Paul. The government is God's minister, after all. Smile Oppression for everyone! Long live the Pope!
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Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 02:00 am
slkshock7 wrote:
BVT wrote:
ALITO WOULD OVERTURN ROE V. WADE: In his dissenting opinion in Planned Parenthood v. Casey, Alito concurred with the majority in supporting the restrictive abortion-related measures passed by the Pennsylvania legislature in the late 1980’s. Alito went further, however, saying the majority was wrong to strike down a requirement that women notify their spouses before having an abortion. The Supreme Court later rejected Alito’s view, voting to reaffirm Roe v. Wade. [Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pennsylvania v. Casey, 1991]


A dissenting opinion to Casey shouldn't be stretched to infer that Alito would overturn Roe v. Wade. Quite properly at the time, Alito made a judgement call based on previous Supreme Court rulings that including spousal notification would not add "undue burden" to a woman desiring an abortion. In my opionion, this was a proper role and position for a judge to take i.e., interpreting the law based on the Constitution and earlier Supreme Court rulings.

In the Casy decision, the SC basically employed stricter standards than it had previously defined. thus Alito should not be faulted for his dissent. He did exactly what judges are supposed to do, evaluate a case based on a past precedent and acknowledgement of the proper limited role of the courts.


At the time Alito issued his lone dissent in Casey (in 1991) with respect to the "husband notification" provision, his reasons were set forth as follows:

Quote:
The Pennsylvania legislature could have rationally believed that some married women are initially inclined to obtain an abortion without their husbands' knowledge because of perceived problems -- such as economic constraints, future plans, or the husbands' previously expressed opposition -- that may be obviated by discussion prior to the abortion," wrote Alito. "The Pennsylvania Legislature presumably decided that the law on balance would be beneficial. We have no authority to overrule that legislative judgment even if we deem it 'unwise' or worse.


http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/31/alito.record/index.html

Alito applied (and I believe, misapplied) the rational basis test which simply asks whether the challenged statute (on its face or as applied) is rationally related to a LEGITIMATE state interest.

Is it truly a LEGITIMATE state interest to require wives to discuss matters concerning their own reproduction rights with their husbands? to facilitate communication between married people about economic constraints, future plans, contraception, abortions, vasectomies, etc.? If it was truly a LEGITIMATE government interest to facilitate beneficial discussions between wives and husbands, then the state could require wives to discuss all purchases with their husbands prior to making the purchases (and visa versa).

Bottom line: The state doesn't have a LEGITIMATE government interest in intruding into the marital relationship and requiring wives and husbands to discuss anything. Wives and husbands in fairly good or stable marriages will undoubtedly discuss important private matters between themselves without the state requiring them to do so. Wives in abusive marriages, on the other hand, probably have good reasons for withholding information from their abusive husbands.

Judge Alito's rationale for upholding the "husband notification" provision was LAME. But, that was fourteen years ago. Hopefully, he has improved his reasoning ability to discern the difference between state interests that are legitimate and those that are not. Perhaps his years on the bench have helped to mature Alito's powers of reason since he has acknowledged that the Constitution protects the liberty interest in the right to privacy:

Quote:
Sen. Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, the Republican chairman of the Judiciary Committee, praised Alito's record and said the committee would have an abundance of material to review. . . .

Specter, who supports abortion rights, met for more than an hour with Alito and said afterward that the nominee told him "there is a right to privacy" in the Constitution.


http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/31/scotus.bush/index.html
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woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 07:33 am
This should be a surprise to NO ONE!

We all knew Meirs was a stall tactic by Bush, just getting the lay of the land, I suppose.

We all knew Meirs would never get the spot, it was just a matter of HOW she was going to be removed from consideration.

To get this "scalia-lite" appointee, is what should have been expected.

Now wee get to see the loonies on the left, foam at the mount about Roe v Wade, as if it was the most important item on the agenda.

This will be fun to watch.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 07:48 am
Debra_Law, quoting CNN on 'Casey', wrote:
The Pennsylvania legislature could have rationally believed that some married women are initially inclined to obtain an abortion without their husbands' knowledge because of perceived problems -- such as economic constraints, future plans, or the husbands' previously expressed opposition -- that may be obviated by discussion prior to the abortion," wrote Alito. "The Pennsylvania Legislature presumably decided that the law on balance would be beneficial. We have no authority to overrule that legislative judgment even if we deem it 'unwise' or worse.

That's basically the snippet from Alito's opinion that Rehnquist quoted in his dissent in Casey. Could you or Joe, by any chance, give me a pointer to the 3d circuit court of appeals' Casey decision and Alito's dissent? It would have been interesting to read the whole of it, but it was the only case for which I couldn't find Alito's original text using the 'usual suspects' of Google searches.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 07:50 am
woiyo wrote

Quote:
Now we get to see the loonies on the left, foam at the mount about Roe v Wade, as if it was the most important item on the agenda.


As it is for the religious right and republican conservatives. That is one of the primary reasons they were fighting the nomination of Bush's first pick.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 08:16 am
Edith Miers is the best person for the job. But she was not allowed a fair up or down vote. She was unfairly obstructed by partisan obstructionists obstructioning. They have a litmus test. You see, they think people of faith are soapy tasting. So that's why we have a deep farm team. Because of the obstructioning. That's why Judge Alito is the best person for the job.
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John Drury
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 08:58 am
I agree this guy seems very smart and very radical. Why does Bush always choose to divide our country.
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BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 09:08 am
woiyo
woiyo wrote:
This should be a surprise to NO ONE!
We all knew Meirs was a stall tactic by Bush, just getting the lay of the land, I suppose. We all knew Meirs would never get the spot, it was just a matter of HOW she was going to be removed from consideration. To get this "scalia-lite" appointee, is what should have been expected. Now we get to see the loonies on the left, foam at the mount about Roe v Wade, as if it was the most important item on the agenda. This will be fun to watch.


I agree with you. I always had a feeling Bush was using Miers to lay the groundwork for an alternative radical right wing judge. The only thing I was unsure of was whether or not she was in on the game or was badly used by "her friend" Bush. I tend to think the latter given Bush's innate corruption as taught by Karl Rove.

BBB
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 09:29 am
Very radical?

Short of nominating Al Gore, I don't believe the left would be satisfied with any candidate Bush would choose. He is a conservative president, he is nominating a conservative judge. Imagine that.

Radical? Jesse Jackson is a radical. Alito is not.
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John Drury
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 09:29 am
I think Democrats should fight this to the bitter end. I think most Americans will find this guy to be very radical and this is not a good time for Bush to return to his neo-con roots.
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woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 09:39 am
John Drury wrote:
I think Democrats should fight this to the bitter end. I think most Americans will find this guy to be very radical and this is not a good time for Bush to return to his neo-con roots.


Radical how???

Just because someone may have a different perspective on the interpretation of the constitution and a person who will be viewed as a constructionist, does not make one radical.
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Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 10:16 am
Thomas wrote:
Debra_Law, quoting CNN on 'Casey', wrote:
The Pennsylvania legislature could have rationally believed that some married women are initially inclined to obtain an abortion without their husbands' knowledge because of perceived problems -- such as economic constraints, future plans, or the husbands' previously expressed opposition -- that may be obviated by discussion prior to the abortion," wrote Alito. "The Pennsylvania Legislature presumably decided that the law on balance would be beneficial. We have no authority to overrule that legislative judgment even if we deem it 'unwise' or worse.


That's basically the snippet from Alito's opinion that Rehnquist quoted in his dissent in Casey. Could you or Joe, by any chance, give me a pointer to the 3d circuit court of appeals' Casey decision and Alito's dissent? It would have been interesting to read the whole of it, but it was the only case for which I couldn't find Alito's original text using the 'usual suspects' of Google searches.



Here are Alito's "Hot Topic" links provided by the University of Michigan (excellent resource site):

University of Michigan

http://www.law.umich.edu/library/news/topics/alito/alitoindex.htm

Planned Parenthood v. Casey (PDF format):

http://www.law.umich.edu/library/news/topics/alito/conc&dissopinions/casey1991c&d.pdf

Judge Alito's dissent begins on page 42.
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 10:27 am
Thomas wrote:
That's basically the snippet from Alito's opinion that Rehnquist quoted in his dissent in Casey. Could you or Joe, by any chance, give me a pointer to the 3d circuit court of appeals' Casey decision and Alito's dissent? It would have been interesting to read the whole of it, but it was the only case for which I couldn't find Alito's original text using the 'usual suspects' of Google searches.

I'm having trouble finding it too, Thomas. The only version I can find on the web is a cut-and-paste in a right-wing blog. I'll see if I can find a more official version.

EDIT: Debra's direct link to the opinion on the Univ. of Michigan website didn't work for me. You need to go to the first link she posted, then click on or scroll down to "Concurring and Dissenting Opinions," then click on the Casey v. Planned Parenthood link.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 12:53 pm
Debra_Law wrote:
Here are Alito's "Hot Topic" links provided by the University of Michigan (excellent resource site):
University of Michigan
http://www.law.umich.edu/library/news/topics/alito/alitoindex.htm

Planned Parenthood v. Casey (PDF format):
http://www.law.umich.edu/library/news/topics/alito/conc&dissopinions/casey1991c&d.pdf

Judge Alito's dissent begins on page 42.


joefromchicago wrote:
Debra's direct link to the opinion on the Univ. of Michigan website didn't work for me. You need to go to the first link she posted, then click on or scroll down to "Concurring and Dissenting Opinions," then click on the Casey v. Planned Parenthood link.

Thanks a lot to both of you. You can also copy and paste Debra's 'Casey' link into your browser's address window. It seems the A2K software truncates long URLs.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 03:30 pm
Debra_Law wrote:
Alito applied (and I believe, misapplied) the rational basis test which simply asks whether the challenged statute (on its face or as applied) is rationally related to a LEGITIMATE state interest.

I don't have an opinion yet on whether Alito misapplied the rational basis test in his dissent. But I would like to point out that this was not the issue on which he dissented with the majority. He dissented on something different, on whether the mandatory notification of her husband placed an 'undue burden' on the woman. Consequently, he also dissented with the majority on how to test its constitutionality. While the majority found an undue burden and accordingly tested with heightened scrutiny, Alito found no undue burden and merely applied a rational basis test.

On page 44 of the document Debra pointed to, judge Alito wrote:
Although the majority and I apply different prongs of this two-part test, I see no indication that we disagree concerning the conclusion produced when either prong is applied to Section 3209. If the majority is correct that Section 3209 must satisfy heightened scrutiny, I agree that its constitutionality is doubtful. Similarly, I do not interpret the majority opinion to mean that Section 3209 cannot satisfy the rational relationship test. Indeed, the majority acknowledges that Section 3209 serves a "legitimate" interest. See majority slip op. typescript at 74, 77. Thus, my major disagreement with the majority concerns the question whether Section 3209 imposes an "undue burden", and I will therefore turn to that question.

... and sure enough, on crosschecking with the lower left corner of page 35, we find that the majority wrote:
If the state's alleged interest in the integrity of the marriage refers to the state's interest in keeping married individuals together in wedlock, we agree that this is a legitimate state interest. It is not an interest that the Supreme Court has recognized as a compelling one, however.

For all I can say at this point, you may well be right and Alito may indeed have applied the rational basis test lamely. But it seems that on this point, the majority of the appeals court agreed with Alito and disagreed with you.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 04:35 pm
Dahlia Lithwick (sn editor at Slate who covers jurisprudence) argues that the Alito appointment will finally bring Roe and abortion fully into the open as a subject of legal/social conversation, and, she feels, this conversation is needed.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 05:48 pm
Following on Lithwick's thought, Ronald Dworkin held in a recent essay on the Roberts' nomination (NYRB) that the social conservatives (and the Republican Party) do not actually wish to see Roe knocked down because of the political repurcussions of such an extreme move.
Quote:
I do not expect Roberts to vote to overturn Roe v. Wade, or even to overturn the Court's repeated decisions sustaining limited affirmative action programs in state universities and professional schools. It seems likely, moreover, that neither decision will be seen as in the best interests of political conservatives. Overruling Roe would suddenly make abortion again an urgent national political issue for many millions of women who have come to take for granted the right that women have enjoyed for two generations and who now vote to express their views on other issues, often for Republicans. Overruling Roe would not be helpful to the national Republican Party.


CNN/Gallop polling since 1996 shows a stable preference for the maintenance of access to abortion.

So, it seems the Republicans are in a bit of a jam on this matter. In order to sustain the co-operation and support of the religious conservative element of the party, they must show themselves to be aggressively and sincerely pursuing the demise of Roe (I think it nearly certain that Bush would have continued to support Miers if only the neoconservative/Federalist society people had protested AND IF the religious conservative leaders had been happy with her - the first camp being too esoteric to have much of a voter following but the second camp representing a critical populist voter base for the modern Republican Party).

Yet, if a consequence of the Republicans moving to overturn Roe (or even perceived to be moving there) would be likely future electoral failures and loss of real power, then this would not be (Dworkin argues, and I think he's right) in the perceived best interests of the conservative movement overall (Norquist, for example, has said that abortion isn't an issue of any personal significance for him).

The more that the conversation moves into the open (as Lithwick is talking about), then the more difficult it is for the social conservatives to speak in code or to operate in 'stealth' mode. That's precisely what the more strategically-minded like Norquist or Kristol or Melman will wish and advise - "Don't scare voters with the whole enchillada. Give 'em palatable bits slowly." On the other hand, I suspect that the strident anti-Roe camp will have great difficulty controlling themselves and their words, having gained a taste for red meat over the last few years.

If that is a coherent and mostly accurate take on what's going on, then we should expect some on the right to keep the conversation and the hearings as far away from black/white on Roe, while the more activist anti-Roe folks will resist such urges to quiet and cause some PR problems.
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oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 07:40 pm
Based on the whining that is emanating from the freedom-haters, Alito is refreshingly pro-Constitution:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/_machine_gun_sammy___a_perfect_halloween_pick__says_brady_campaign128_xml&printer=1

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/brady_campaign__how_samuel_alito_took_a_no_brainer_case_and_stepped_way__way_out_of_the_mainstream111_xml&printer=1
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Steppenwolf
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Nov, 2005 07:47 pm
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