squinney wrote:Really guys & gals?
He's highly coached, as are all Supreme Court nominees. What makes you think he is answering truthfully?
Webpage TitleI Would Like Some Input On These Claims
I think he is answering truthfully because that's what I presume about everyone until he gives me a reason to change my mind. So far, Alito has given me no such reason, and that wasn't because I'd looked the other way. . . .
woiyo wrote:I would agree if that person is CURRENTLY holding those ideals and it can be demonstrated in his work that he still holds those ideals. It should be EASY for them to determine if Alito is CURRENTLY a member of some "wacko" club or CURRENTLY hold to those ideals. However, if you have to go back 15-20 years of dig for proof that one ONCE was a member... you are reaching.
I think the point is to determine whether he CURRENTLY holds the same views. If they get the records and find out that he really did just join to keep the ROTC, fine. What can it hurt to find out?
mysteryman wrote:FreeDuck wrote:Membership in something like CAP, depending on how active he was, could indicate an extreme ideology. One would hope he has grown out of it by now, but it's certainly relevant for a lifetime appointment.
why?
Exactly...WHY is it relavent today if he has not been a member.
It would be similiar to holding someone's past membership in the KKK against them while the run for public office/.
If Alito was a former member of the KKK, he could not be confirmed to sit on this nation's highest court.
Look, I have no problem with Alito and agree with Debra's take on him (though with less legal expertise). He uses valid reasoning in all the decisions I've seen, even the ones I disagree with. But it IS a lifetime appointment. And if some congressman feel that they need to cover all the bases and leave no stone unturned, good on 'em. That's their job. I suspect nothing will come of it. But on the off chance that there's something there that is inconsistent with what he's told the Senate, then now is the time to clear that up.
Look, I have no problem with Alito and agree with Debra's take on him (though with less legal expertise). He uses valid reasoning in all the decisions I've seen, even the ones I disagree with. But it IS a lifetime appointment. And if some congressman feel that they need to cover all the bases and leave no stone unturned, good on 'em. That's their job. I suspect nothing will come of it. But on the off chance that there's something there that is inconsistent with what he's told the Senate, then now is the time to clear that up.
FreeDuck wrote:Look, I have no problem with Alito and agree with Debra's take on him (though with less legal expertise). He uses valid reasoning in all the decisions I've seen, even the ones I disagree with. But it IS a lifetime appointment. And if some congressman feel that they need to cover all the bases and leave no stone unturned, good on 'em. That's their job. I suspect nothing will come of it. But on the off chance that there's something there that is inconsistent with what he's told the Senate, then now is the time to clear that up.
Absolutely! There is no perfect candidate. But, this nominee appears to have a genuine commitment to the rule of law. Specter should give Kennedy the subpoena he demands for the CAP records. That's the only way the issue will be put to rest. Without producing those records, questions will linger and will give Kennedy, et al., a justification to tie up the committee for weeks and refuse to give an up or down vote.
Debra_Law wrote:If Alito was a former member of the KKK, he could not be confirmed to sit on this nation's highest court.
Yeah. After all, Alito is no Hugo Black.
joefromchicago wrote:Debra_Law wrote:If Alito was a former member of the KKK, he could not be confirmed to sit on this nation's highest court.
Yeah. After all, Alito is no Hugo Black.
Yes. Hugo Black was a liberal infiltrator of the Klan where he preached LIBERTY and JUSTICE for blacks: no mo' whippins! LOL
On September 11, 1923 Black became a member of the Robert E. Lee Klan No. 1 of the Ku Klux Klan in Birmingham. He claimed that he remained in the KKK for only two years until 1925, during which time he alleged that he attended a maximum of no more than four meetings, and then he tendered a friendly resignation. However, in 1926 he not only attended a State Convention of the KKK, but he chose to address the delegates as well. Hugo Black is alleged to have said that what he liked about the Klan was "not the burning crosses ... not attempting to regulate anybody," but for keeping the door open "to the boy that comes up on the humble hillside, or in the lowly valley." The full text of this speech appeared 14 years later in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette on September 15, 1937, in page two and in column two
. . . However, Black's affiliation with the Ku Klux Klan was ephemeral and irrelevant to his political career. After becoming a member of the Klan on September 13, 1923, he marched in a few parades and spoke in meetings. His speeches were mainly on liberty, and he stressed to the more belligerent members of the Klan that it should be a law-abiding organization; thus, he emphasized, activities such as whipping should not be tolerated. Even the Imperial Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan clarified that Black was neither a Klansman nor a sympathizer. Nonetheless, in September and October, Black's KKK involvement hung like a shadow over Roosevelt. Black admitted that although he had indeed been a member, his membership was short and trifling, and he did not consider himself a Klansman. Black's resolute statement regarding his involvement, as well as the public's fear of war commencing in Japan took the spotlight off Justice Black. The controversy soon subsided as the War Scare overshadowed FDR's domestic problems. . . .
JUSTICE O'CONNOR, JUSTICE KENNEDY, and JUSTICE SOUTER announced the judgment of the Court and delivered the opinion of the Court with respect to Parts I, II, III, V-A, [505 U.S. 833, 844] V-C, and VI, an opinion with respect to Part V-E, in which JUSTICE STEVENS joins, and an opinion with respect to Parts IV, V-B, and V-D.
I
Liberty finds no refuge in a jurisprudence of doubt. Yet, 19 years after our holding that the Constitution protects a woman's right to terminate her pregnancy in its early stages, Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973), that definition of liberty is still questioned. Joining the respondents as amicus curiae, the United States, as it has done in five other cases in the last decade, again asks us to overrule Roe. . . .
* * *
III
A
The obligation to follow precedent begins with necessity, and a contrary necessity marks its outer limit. With Cardozo, we recognize that no judicial system could do society's work if it eyed each issue afresh in every case that raised it. See B. Cardozo, The Nature of the Judicial Process 149 (1921). Indeed, the very concept of the rule of law underlying our own Constitution requires such continuity over time that a respect for precedent is, by definition, indispensable. See Powell, Stare Decisis and Judicial Restraint, 1991 Journal of Supreme Court History 13, 16. At the other extreme, a different necessity would make itself felt if a prior judicial ruling should come to be seen so clearly as error that its enforcement was, for that very reason, doomed.
Even when the decision to overrule a prior case is not, as in the rare, latter instance, virtually foreordained, it is common wisdom that the rule of stare decisis is not an "inexorable command," and certainly it is not such in every constitutional case, see Burnet v. Coronado Oil & Gas Co., 285 U.S. 393, 405 -411 (1932) (Brandeis, J., dissenting). See also Payne v. Tennessee, 501 U.S. 808, 842 (1991) (SOUTER, J., joined by KENNEDY, J., concurring); Arizona v. Rumsey, 467 U.S. 203, 212 (1984). Rather, when this Court reexamines a prior holding, its judgment is customarily informed by a series of prudential and pragmatic considerations designed to test the consistency of overruling a prior decision with the ideal of the rule of law, and to gauge the respective costs of reaffirming and overruling a prior case. Thus, for example, we may ask whether the rule has proven to be intolerable simply in defying practical workability, Swift & Co. v. Wickham, 382 U.S. 111, 116 (1965); whether the rule is subject to a kind of reliance that would lend a special hardship to the consequences of overruling and add inequity to the cost of repudiation, e.g., United States v. Title Ins. & Trust [505 U.S. 833, 855] Co., 265 U.S. 472, 486 (1924); whether related principles of law have so far developed as to have left the old rule no more than a remnant of abandoned doctrine, see Patterson v. McLean Credit Union, 491 U.S. 164, 173 -174 (1989); or whether facts have so changed, or come to be seen so differently, as to have robbed the old rule of significant application or justification, e.g., Burnet, supra, 285 U.S. at 412 (Brandeis, J., dissenting).
So in this case, we may enquire whether Roe's central rule has been found unworkable; whether the rule's limitation on state power could be removed without serious inequity to those who have relied upon it or significant damage to the stability of the society governed by it; whether the law's growth in the intervening years has left Roe's central rule a doctrinal anachronism discounted by society; and whether Roe's premises of fact have so far changed in the ensuing two decades as to render its central holding somehow irrelevant or unjustifiable in dealing with the issue it addressed. . . .
THE DISSENT
CHIEF JUSTICE REHNQUIST, with whom JUSTICE WHITE, JUSTICE SCALIA, and JUSTICE THOMAS join, concurring in the judgment in part and dissenting in part.
The joint opinion, following its newly minted variation on stare decisis, retains the outer shell of Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973), but beats a wholesale retreat from the substance of that case. We believe that Roe was wrongly decided, and that it can and should be overruled consistently with our traditional approach to stare decisis in constitutional cases. We would adopt the approach of the plurality in Webster v. Reproductive Health Services, 492 U.S. 490 (1989), and uphold the challenged provisions of the Pennsylvania statute in their entirety. . . .
* * *
II
The joint opinion of Justices O'CONNOR, KENNEDY, and SOUTER cannot bring itself to say that Roe was correct as an original matter, but the authors are of the view that the immediate question is not the soundness of Roe's resolution of the issue, but the precedential force that must be accorded to its holding. Ante, at 871. Instead of claiming that Roe [505 U.S. 833, 954] was correct as a matter of original constitutional interpretation, the opinion therefore contains an elaborate discussion of stare decisis. This discussion of the principle of stare decisis appears to be almost entirely dicta, because the joint opinion does not apply that principle in dealing with Roe. Roe decided that a woman had a fundamental right to an abortion. The joint opinion rejects that view. Roe decided that abortion regulations were to be subjected to "strict scrutiny," and could be justified only in the light of "compelling state interests." The joint opinion rejects that view. Ante, at 872-873; see Roe v. Wade, supra, 410 U.S., at 162 -164. Roe analyzed abortion regulation under a rigid trimester framework, a framework which has guided this Court's decisionmaking for 19 years. The joint opinion rejects that framework. Ante, at 873.
Stare decisis is defined in Black's Law Dictionary as meaning "to abide by, or adhere to, decided cases." Black's Law Dictionary 1406 (6th ed. 1990). Whatever the "central holding" of Roe that is left after the joint opinion finishes dissecting it is surely not the result of that principle. While purporting to adhere to precedent, the joint opinion instead revises it. Roe continues to exist, but only in the way a storefront on a western movie set exists: a mere facade to give the illusion of reality. Decisions following Roe, such as Akron v. Akron Center for Reproductive Health, Inc., 462 U.S. 416 (1983), and Thornburgh v. American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, 476 U.S. 747 (1986), are frankly overruled in part under the "undue burden" standard expounded in the joint opinion. Ante at 881-884.
In our view, authentic principles of stare decisis do not require that any portion of the reasoning in Roe be kept intact. "Stare decisis is not . . . a universal, inexorable command," especially in cases involving the interpretation of the Federal Constitution. Burnet v. Coronado Oil & Gas Co., 285 U.S. 393, 405 (1932) (Brandeis, J., dissenting). Erroneous decisions in such constitutional cases are uniquely durable, because correction through legislative action, save for [505 U.S. 833, 955] constitutional amendment, is impossible. It is therefore our duty to reconsider constitutional interpretations that "depar[t] from a proper understanding" of the Constitution. Garcia v. San Antonio Metropolitan Transit Authority, 469 U.S., at 557 ; see United States v. Scott, 437 U.S. 82, 101 (1978) ("`n cases involving the Federal Constitution, . . . [t]he Court bows to the lessons of experience and the force of better reasoning, recognizing that the process of trial and error, so fruitful in the physical sciences, is appropriate also in the judicial function'" (quoting Burnet v. Coronado Oil & Gas Co., supra, at 406-408 (Brandeis, J., dissenting))); Smith v. Allwright, 321 U.S. 649, 665 (1944). Our constitutional watch does not cease merely because we have spoken before on an issue; when it becomes clear that a prior constitutional interpretation is unsound, we are obliged to reexamine the question. See, e.g., West Virginia Bd. of Ed. v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624, 642 (1943); Erie R. Co. v. Tompkins, 304 U.S. 64, 74 -78 (1938). . . .
Poor Sam Alito. The White House seems intent on turning him into a liar. No matter how many of his old memos surface declaring Roe v. Wade a constitutional abomination that should be abandoned, the White House insists on sowing doubt about whether he would really pull the trigger. First, his Reagan administration job application emerged, in which he stated, "I personally believe very strongly" that "the Constitution does not protect a right to an abortion." But Bushies warned that this tells us nothing. Then, earlier this month, a memo Alito wrote in 1985 as a Justice Department lawyer came to light. In it, he detailed his strategy of "bringing about the eventual overruling of Roe v. Wade."
Still, the White House dismissed it. "Any attempt by opponents of his nomination to suggest that the memo signals how he would rule as a Supreme Court justice on any issue is just silly," a Bush flack sputtered. Strangely enough, this tactic seemed to work, leading commentators to proclaim that Alito's views remain an open question. "Alito's record does not ... necessarily suggest that he still favors overturning Roe v. Wade," opined National Journal's Stuart Taylor.
The trick apparently works on senators, too. Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter recently reported that Alito told him, "When a matter is embedded in the culture, it's a considerable factor in the application of stare decisis." That's what it's come to for conservatives: The movement that prides itself on being built on the strength of its ideas is now embarrassed to articulate one of its core beliefs: that Roe was wrongly decided and should be reversed. The White House and its nominee have decided that the political cost of affirming this principle is too high. They've opted to muddy the issue rather than concede an obvious fact: Of course Alito would vote to overturn Roe.
It's worth remembering that Roe is not some minor issue for the judicial right. It is the issue. As Robert Bork recently wrote in National Review, "[O]verturning Roe v. Wade should be the sine qua non of a respectable jurisprudence." Bork may be extreme on many issues, but this isn't one of them. Legal scholars from across the political spectrum find the constitutional justification for Roe highly dubious. It would be shocking if Alito didn't believe this.
But he clearly does. His biography reads like a parody of a conservative foot soldier. "When I first became interested in government and politics during the 1960s," he wrote in 1985, "the greatest influences on my views were the writings of William F. Buckley, Jr., the National Review, and Barry Goldwater's 1964 campaign." One of his intellectual heroes in college was Alexander Bickel, a leading proponent of judicial restraint during the Warren Court years (and tnr's legal editor) whose writings came to influence conservative scholars. Alito bragged of donating to the campaign of Christopher Smith, former head of New Jersey Right to Life and Congress's most vociferous abortion opponent.
At Justice, Alito put his ideas into action. The abortion strategy memo he penned is indecipherable from the legal blueprint the right is using to slowly chip away at Roe. And Alito was prescient. He predicted that, by convincing the Court to uphold a new batch of state restrictions, it might eventually "adjust its standard of review." That's exactly what happened in the 1992 Casey decision. The Court retreated from Roe's "strict scrutiny" standard and adopted a new "undue burden" standard for refereeing abortion laws. The upshot has been 13 years of state laws more restrictive than Roe allowed.
Still, those looking for contrary evidence point out that, as a judge, Alito's abortion-related decisions show little hostility to Roe. But there's less here than meets the eye. Alito was involved in four cases where abortion was a significant issue. Two of the cases were decided on technical grounds. In a third case, Alito and his colleagues on the Third Circuit struck down a New Jersey ban on partial-birth abortion days after the Supreme Court declared a similar Nebraska ban unconstitutional.
There was only one abortion case where Alito's hands weren't tied by technicalities or precedent. When Casey stopped before his court on its way up the legal ladder, Alito ruled that all of a Pennsylvania law's abortion restrictions were constitutional. Some have defended the decision because the guidance from the high court was murky, which is true. But that's why the case offers the best evidence of his judicial instincts. Free from the shackles of clear instructions, Alito voted in the case exactly as one would have predicted the author of that 1985 memo would have. William H. Rehnquist, writing for the Casey minority that argued the case should be used as an opportunity to overturn Roe, approvingly cited Alito's opinion.
Unless one is willfully blind to Alito's intellectual history, the assumption must be that, given the opportunity, he would vote to overturn Roe. It is only stare decisis that would stand in his way. And too much has been made of this doctrine. As Justice Louis Brandeis argued in 1932, "Stare decisis is not ... a universal, inexorable command." But the bigger problem of placing faith in Alito's enlightened view of stare decisis is that conservatives don't see Roe as a particularly good candidate for such respect. The history of Roe is one of erosion, not stability. Casey itself gutted several of Roe's core holdings, including the strict scrutiny standard, the notion that women had a "fundamental right" to abortion, and the trimester system for judging state laws.
So why has the White House been able to sell Alito as a question mark when it comes to overturning Roe? One reason is that the press has fallen for the trap of mistaking temperament for ideology. Alito's decisions don't hiss with the sarcasm and barbs of Antonin Scalia, and that alone is taken by some as a sign of moderation. Liberals have also beaten conservatives into a defensive crouch when it comes to Roe. Abortion rights proponents have defined reversing Roe as far more radical than most legal scholars believe it is, and that has sown the mistaken impression that reversal means an immediate national ban on abortion. Rather than engage this debate, the White House has decided that the path of least resistance is to muscle Alito through the Senate. Instead of dealing honestly with his views on Roe, Alito has decided to hide them and wink about stare decisis. But we don't need another memo to know where he stands.
woiyo wrote:mysteryman wrote:FreeDuck wrote:Membership in something like CAP, depending on how active he was, could indicate an extreme ideology. One would hope he has grown out of it by now, but it's certainly relevant for a lifetime appointment.
why?
Exactly...WHY is it relavent today if he has not been a member.
It would be similiar to holding someone's past membership in the KKK against them while the run for public office/.
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If Alito was a former member of the KKK, he could not be confirmed to sit on this nation's highest court.
WRONG!!!!!
Does the name Justice Hugo Black ring a bell with you?
