Religious Belief in America - Please no Christians

This really must be a phenomenon which isn't to be found outsite the USA.

Take Germany, for instance, with 70% Christians, or Poland, Italy, Spain with an even higher percentage of Christians: I don't think you would get number like that, perhaps 2% or maybe up to 5%.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

This really must be a phenomenon which isn't to be found outsite the USA.

Take Germany, for instance, with 70% Christians, or Poland, Italy, Spain with an even higher percentage of Christians: I don't think you would get number like that, perhaps 2% or maybe up to 5%.

I guess this is a byproduct of America has much more religious factions competing for the souls of Americans. As you said, almost all German Christians are organized in one of the big two organizations. And in Poland, Italy, and Spain, organized Christianity is all but monopolized by the Catholic Church. I would expect an intermediate number of creatonists in places like Brazil, where religious competition is intermediate between Europe and America.

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

This really must be a phenomenon which isn't to be found outsite the USA.

Take a look at the Scottish Highlands and the role of the Free Presbyterian church. That is very much like what evangelicals in the US would like to see here

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It's amazing, isn't it, how there are plenty of folks who don't believe in evolution, but who have no trouble with concepts like drug-resistant bacteria (it's because the bacteria have evolved to be resistant; the nonresistant strains have died out and, those that remained, have filled the niche), insulin treatments for diabetes (insulin, I believe still does or may have at one time, come from sheep's livers, if sheep were different from humans, e. g. not evolved from a common ancestor, rather than created separately on some other day, the insulin would not work, yes?) or the concept of light-speed (so, if the Andromeda galaxy is sending us light that started off from there about 100,000 years ago [might have the wrong galaxy or even the wrong amount of time, but I think you know what I mean], then that's way longer than the old 10,000-year-old world we're allegedly supposed to be living in).

Intelligent design, my foot! Or, rather, my knee. What are knees? They are an awful design. The joint is weight-bearing but is easy to break and twist and snap. The sinews around it are all twisted and do not function well unless perfect. They wear out. They get injured easily during sports or even through regular old daily living. My Dad, for example, is neither a runner nor an aerobics person, yet he's had arthroscopic surgery on his knee.

If that's so intelligently designed, why does it fail so often?

Are angler fish intelligently designed? If they are, then why don't the males have digestive systems? They merely exist as sperm conduits for the females.

I could go on like this for a while.

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Jespah:

In order not to sidetrack this thread, I will not debate your claims in the previous post (not on this thread, at least). I would like to point out that none of those points actually hinder a creationist's argument. In addition, a couple of your points were made using logical fallacies.

To everyone else:
I haven't been a member long enough to have PM privileges - otherwise I would have used that as a means to communicate this. My apologies (seeing that Christians weren't invited here :wink: ).

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

This really must be a phenomenon which isn't to be found outsite the USA.

Take Germany, for instance, with 70% Christians, or Poland, Italy, Spain with an even higher percentage of Christians: I don't think you would get number like that, perhaps 2% or maybe up to 5%.

I thought about that Walter, why do you think that is, personally?
I feel like I'm too close to the trees to see the forest.

I was raised Catholic, but do not practice. I have always believed in God.
If you were to have asked me 10-12 years ago, if I was a Christian, I would not have hesitated to say yes.

Today, I don't think I could answer that question, but because my beliefs have changed, but because of what that answer seems to mean to many people these days in America.

All of a sudden, saying the word Christian is so much more charged with stuff I don't even feel should be pertinent..

Where I grew up, you said you were Catholic, Methodist, Jewish, Snake Handler, whatever, and no one took it on themselves to have the conversation go any farther. If anything had to be said, it was "Hey, that's nice" not said sarcastic, just, oh, that's good that you got a religion. The feeling was, "hey, you got a religion, you believe in God, you're a good person, that's all I need to know. I'm not gonna sit here and talk about God with you, we all got our own beliefs." You don't believe in God? Hey, that your business too.

Back in my mid twenties, when I was more naïve about this sort of thing, I remember being in maybe one or two situations where I realized that some particular person really liked to talk about the bible a lot, and frankly wasn't all that great to spend any time with, because they were always talking to you like you were too ignorant to have formulated your own feeling towards God.

It wasn't until recent years that I moved to a part of America where, frankly, to this day, I'm still confused as to what the big fuss is all about.

Not all of the people are like this, but it just doesn't seem like enough to say, "yeah, sure I believe in God".Nooooo, now you gotta say you're a Christian and talk about Jesus and all.

Sure I believe in Jesus, but, I'm just not into saying over and over how Jesus is the savior and all that..I mean, I thought the point was you said it, and you didn't have to go on and on about it all the time.

This is funny.It's like I had a little feeling of oasis the other day.

I went into this Catholic bookstore because I need some of those little red and blue votive candle holders, never mind why.
Now, I've had to go into other Christian supply places in the past for whatever, and strange at it sounds, it was such a turn off how the people who work there are SO super nice, you know what I mean. It's like, hey, I'm just buying a gift for a baptism, let's not get all bible group on me here.
Anyway, I go into the Catholic place, ask if they have what I want, and with a look of absolute disinterest the old lady there calls out"hey Jimmy, I need you to go look in the back for me..get out of box of those red candle holders.
Aaaaaaahhhhhh.

Evolution, ye gads, 45%!!!! Like others I am shocked.

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Chai Tea wrote:

I thought about that Walter, why do you think that is, personally?

I've no clue, only half-baked ideas.

(Some time ago, I found some old school reports, lesson plans etc from both my grandfather and -mother.
While grandfather went to private scientific highschool about 1900, grandmother joined a private Catholic [run by nuns] highschool ten years later. Both were taught exclusively in evolution.)

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Yes, I was too....

went to 12 years of catholic school, and never heard a word against evolution.

I clearly remember the nuns teaching genesis and saying that it was not necessarily literal.

Creationism just seems like a fairy tale you tell a little kid, like Santa Claus.

Now though, some people assume you're an atheist.

sigh - for some reason Walter, all this makes me feel very sad. very sad.

oh - another question....Do you feel in Germany you say you're a christian it carries any of the connotation it seems to have developed here?

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Not at all!

For instance, when charites, hospitals etc ask in their situations wanted that the applcatant most be of christian belief, you can be sure that's either a Catholic or Protestant instituion.

Our new government (including the chancellor as as head of it) is now by half run with ministers/secrataries of state by the Christian Democratic Party/Christian Soial Part - no-one would ever get ideas like in the USA about it (they are just our more rightish conservatives).

We have the Christian-Jewish Association, the Christian-Archaelogic Society, Christian History Commission - nothing at all to do with ideas like in the USA but institutions focused just on Christianity (the latter, here, I mean by that).

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Unfortunately we have Christian groups claiming to be the only 'true' Christians and make a point of telling Catholic and mainstream Protestant groups that they are NOT Christian. I once participated on a parenting forum that became very ugly between the different Christian groups berating each other for not being 'true Christians' in their parenting philosophies.

We had some young posters here last spring indicating only they and their fellow church members were true Christians. All other's who claim Christianity are simply posers in their estimation. The self-rightousness among the fundamentalists is what's driving the polarization here.

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Oh J_B Thank You!!!!

It is SO tiresome to hear over and over basically that the bible says what the bible says and that's what God says so that's it. PERIOD!

OK, but it has to be YOUR particular church that is the one who has it right in what the bible says.

Nothing like a good conversation stopper.

OK - It's like the Reniassance or Middle Ages or all the other eras of mankind never took place. All the philosophers and holy men & women of ages past have made no contribution to spirituality.

What we are left with seems like a cheap plastic imitation. It's like a McReligion, and some people are like McChristians.

One size does not fit all....

Who is right? The christians, muslims, jews, atheists, hindus, and on and on.....They all are.

It feels so awful and untrue to state an opinion on some forums, because in order to make it that you won't get the crazy merry go round going, you've got to water down your verbage so much, it means nothing.

OH - here's one I hear ALL THE TIME and I'm so sick of it, I want to puke......It goes a little something like this.....

Person A makes a comment, doesn't matter what the comment is, or in what tone it was delivered.....Because it does not jive completely with what Person B feels you should believe, a comment like this follows....

"Well, I have no idea why you say.......Could you please explain that to me"?

All that is an excuse to start the roundabout, and everything else stops but arguing about Jesus.

Anyway, I'm off track, sorry.....

but thanks J_B, I needed that.

Oh and Walter, your situation sounds marvelous.

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Chai Tea wrote:

Oh J_B Thank You!!!!

It is SO tiresome to hear over and over basically that the bible says what the bible says and that's what God says so that's it. PERIOD!

OK, but it has to be YOUR particular church that is the one who has it right in what the bible says.

Nothing like a good conversation stopper.

OK - It's like the Reniassance or Middle Ages or all the other eras of mankind never took place. All the philosophers and holy men & women of ages past have made no contribution to spirituality.

What we are left with seems like a cheap plastic imitation. It's like a McReligion, and some people are like McChristians.

One size does not fit all....

Who is right? The christians, muslims, jews, atheists, hindus, and on and on.....They all are.

It feels so awful and untrue to state an opinion on some forums, because in order to make it that you won't get the crazy merry go round going, you've got to water down your verbage so much, it means nothing.

OH - here's one I hear ALL THE TIME and I'm so sick of it, I want to puke......It goes a little something like this.....

Person A makes a comment, doesn't matter what the comment is, or in what tone it was delivered.....Because it does not jive completely with what Person B feels you should believe, a comment like this follows....

"Well, I have no idea why you say.......Could you please explain that to me"?

All that is an excuse to start the roundabout, and everything else stops but arguing about Jesus.

Anyway, I'm off track, sorry.....

but thanks J_B, I needed that.

Oh and Walter, your situation sounds marvelous.

Whad do you mean by that?

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YOU are a freak!

That's what I mean sir! Laughing

have a good evening, goin' home now.

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reading along - I might have something to say not sure yet

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Bookmarking......

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Chai Tea wrote:

Oh and Walter, your situation sounds marvelous.

This is how British (local) statistics read:

Quote:

Christian
73.0
Buddhist
0.3
Hindu
0.1
Jewish
0.1
Muslim
0.2
Sikh
0.0
Other religions
0.1
No religion
19.6
Religion not stated

In that county borough (from where I copied these statistics), you find 21 different Christian churches, btw, from Anglicans over Orthodox (three different) to a variety of Presbytarian churches.

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Redeemed wrote:

Jespah:

In order not to sidetrack this thread, I will not debate your claims in the previous post (not on this thread, at least). I would like to point out that none of those points actually hinder a creationist's argument. In addition, a couple of your points were made using logical fallacies.

To everyone else:
I haven't been a member long enough to have PM privileges - otherwise I would have used that as a means to communicate this. My apologies (seeing that Christians weren't invited here :wink: ).

Really? You need not use PM to convey this info, I can take it. Now, where are these logical fallacies you speak of? If I am wrong, I'd like to know, thanks.

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J_B wrote:

The self-rightousness among the fundamentalists is what's driving the polarization here.

I totally agree. I'd go on to say that since this current administration is controlled by these fundamentalists, there is a real fear by everyone not of that bent that we are fast heading towards some new and awful dark ages... one that is deliberately set.

The question is why. What is their motive? Anyone who reads the Bible with a whit of understanding knows it is unChristianlike to be this power-hungry.

It therefore seems obvious to me that some other, uglier and hidden reason and agenda exists. This insidious power-grab is so obviously more than just wanting the rest of us heathens to accept Christ as our personal Savior.

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I was at a guy's apartment, helping him out. He's relatively new and he payed me to help move some furniture. A retired guy, really nice acting. He makes a bit of small talk, asks if I want a soda. Then, out of the blue, "Where do you go to church?"
"I'm not a church going person."
"Would you be willing to let somebody come to your house nights to teach you about Jesus?"
"My life is too full to work it in, thanks."
I felt like a fly fighting its way out of a web to the exit when I got ready to leave. Say what you will, I have never seen an atheist do that to another human being.

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That's the nub, right there.

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Religious Belief in America - Please no Christians

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